Friction Steam Boiler

[rickoff]

Reply to Vortex:

Getting water to flow from the low pressure hopper
into the high pressure reserve is going to require a pump.
Has this been addressed, yet?
Did I miss seeing something already in the design?

No pump is needed. See "About the water delivery system for the steam vessel" in post #32 of this thread for the full details.



Thanks for your interest,

Rick

[rickoff]

Just an idea outside of the wooded box.

Ceramic break pads and Rotors are common and designed to radiate heat. May last longer than wood stock.

Hi KC,

I believe that you actually mean brake pads, not "break pads." In any case, ceramic brake pads and matching rotors are not at all common. They are used on a few pricey, top-end cars like the Bentley and the 700 hp Callaway C-16 Speedster. Callaway also sells a ceramic brake conversion kit for Corvettes, at a cost of $4,000 per wheel. That's quite a bit more than I would want to spend for a friction rotor for Lloyd's device when his design works just fine using a relatively inexpensive 4 inch length of thick walled 5 inch pipe for a rotor. If a standard cast iron brake rotor and pads were used in Lloyd's device, the rotor would not hold up for very long at the heat levels that are necessary. Neither would the bearings, which are integrated in the rotor casting.

Drawing and Compressing hot air away from friction area should help longevity.

Yes, and that's what the steam vessel does. The water drip system inside the steam vessel can be thought of as likened to a steady rainfall which captures heat rising from the rotor to the vessel bottom, and instantly transforms the heated water droplets to steam. Since the vessel bottom is placed directly above the rotor, you actually want the frictional heat to build up at the rotor as much as possible, while not creating excess heat that isn't required for generating an adequate head of steam. That is why the rotor driveshaft should be regulated to slow down or stop when the required steam pressure and temperature is reached. If a motor is used to drive the rotor shaft, then a thermostatic switching device can be employed to halt the motor. If a steam engine drives the rotor shaft, then a thermostatically activated clutch device would disengage the rotor shaft.

Thanks for your interest and comments, KC.

Best wishes to you,

Rick

[Vortex]

No pump is needed. See "About the water delivery system for the steam vessel" in post #32 of this thread for the full details.

Thanks for your interest,

Rick

Yes, I understand that design, mostly,
except the electric plug in diagram 2 of post #41.

Using an oscillation of the reserve tank pressure and pumping, which this pump is able to do,
the "water hopper" could be removed from the design.

I did not explain that.
Truth is, I just realized it could be oscillated with the reserve tank pressure drop, removing the need for a hopper.
No water hopper would reduce the materials, size and cost.

The pump, in post #71, would be driven by the steam, at the same pressure.
It only has 2 check valves .. that's the pump!
A equalization tube would be smaller than the venting hole in the reserve tank.

As the reserve tank pressure drops, the pump would begin pumping by itself, being at full steam pressure.
The pump continues pumping until the pressure equalizes in the reserve tank.
The Float value is moved from the hopper into the reserve tank.
Drip, vent, pump, equalize, drip, vent, pump, equalize...oscillation.

Use of this pump could be duplicated elsewhere for other pumping functions
removing the need for electrical pumps, again reducing cost.

oscillation seems like a good solution to me.
Maybe I've overlooked something
Randy

[rickoff]

Reply to Randy (Vortex)

Yes, I understand that design, mostly,
except the electric plug in diagram 2 of post #41.
Randy

Hi Randy,

The electric plug is simply shown by Lloyd to let us know that the float actuates an electric switch. The switch controls the on and off cycles of the water hopper's exhaust valve, equalizer valve, and water line valve. These valves work similarly to zone valves in a household heating system. As the float drops to a minimum level, the switch closes the equalizer valve, and opens both the exhaust and water valves, allowing the hopper to fill. When the float reaches the maximum water level, the water and exhaust valves close and the equalizer valve opens. As pressure equalizes between the hopper and the reservoir tanks, the water inside the hopper can now flow freely into the reservoir tank until the float valve drops to the minimum level again, and the cycle repeats. Since the reservoir tank holds 15 gallons of water, and the hopper only holds 5 gallons at the maximum float level, the water inside the reservoir tank never runs low, and is always replaced when it drops to 10 gallons. And since steam pressure always passes from the steam vessel to the reservoir tank, through a 1-way check valve, the water flow to the drip system is always maintained in a smooth, steady manner.

I understand the method you are suggesting, Randy, and it could enable doing away with the water hopper, but I think it might also be problematic in that the water flow between the reservoir and the steam vessel would appear to occur in pulses that may affect the smoothness of the drip rate within the vessel. What you want to achieve is a smooth and steady drip action that resembles a light rainfall. If pressure is allowed to fall within the reservoir, then the water drip stops, so you constantly have to maintain an equal pressure between the steam vessel and the reservoir. To add water directly to the reservoir from a water line, you would have to allow a pressure drop inside the reservoir, which would immediately stop the drip action in the steam vessel. And if you place the float valve in the reservoir, the drip system would be off during the entire refill period. If you can think of methods for overcoming these problems, while doing away with the water hopper, then by all means go for it and let us know how you have solved the problems. If the problems can't be resolved easily, then you can always add in the hopper later. I think that I would prefer to stick with using the hopper, though, since I know that it works very well with Lloyd's friction steam boiler design.

I hope this explanation helps to make things more clearly understood. Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions, Randy. I'm glad to see that people are thinking about building Lloyd's device, and also thinking of possible methods for either simplifying the design, or improving the already amazing efficiency of it. Some ideas will work, and some won't. It doesn't hurt to try some variations, as long as you don't compromise on safety.

Best regards to all,

Rick

[kaycee]

Hi all,

I noticed that Near Futures Energy Corporation | is selling pre built green steam machines for $1890 US.

I wonder what a local machine shop would charge for any machining that would be needed for this steam engine?

Seems like a cool car could be enginered to run on wood, with the combination of wood friction, green steam engine driving a PMA/Manta generator supplying electricity to an electric engine and a smaller bank of batteries.

Brian

[theremart]

RE: Steam.

Hi all,

I noticed that Near Futures Energy Corporation | is selling pre built green steam machines for $1890 US.

I wonder what a local machine shop would charge for any machining that would be needed for this steam engine?

Seems like a cool car could be enginered to run on wood, with the combination of wood friction, green steam engine driving a PMA/Manta generator supplying electricity to an electric engine and a smaller bank of batteries.

Brian

I really like the look of that boiler Looks like it would be very safe.

Mart

[theremart]

Also

The green steam engine is in the same price range as Mike's..

Order Form for Mike Brown Steam Engines and Alternative Energy Products

I wonder which one is better?

[Vortex]

Water Feed via Steam Injector

Hi Rick,

I must admit the pump in post #71 requires "tuning" and would not be easy to use.

There is a device called a Steam Injector that is used to feed water into a boiler.
Most of the time the phase "Steam Injector" means steam being injected into
something else and that makes finding this device hard and confusing to talk
about.

The steam injector I'm speaking about uses the steam from the boiler to
inject water into the boiler. ...

A quote speaking about the "steam injector":
"You can't pick yourself up with your own bootstraps, nor are perpetual
motion machines possible; this is why a patent was refused on the injector
when first submitted to the United States Patent Commissioner, until he had seen it work."

Simplicity, compact construction and no moving parts.
Remember, these are simple devices which with over engineering can be made
to be very complex. This is how it became extinct and forgotten about, I believe.

How this device works:
Injector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In this project the boiler would be called the reservoir tank because it's under
the same pressure as a boiler would be. There would still be a need a hopper
as the project calls. An open top tank would work, no valves, no pressure,
about any size and it would sit on the floor with the float remaining to fill it.

I've found only one place to purchase:
Lifting injector
1 1/4 pints per minute. Suit 3/16 pipe. Lifting injector, working pressure 40-100psi.
I think this allows for about 0.946 cubic meters of steam per minute.
The site below indicates this equates to little over 1 HP.

See this device in action:
Live Steam Injector

Why and how does it work?

Simple diagam of steam injector with complex equations how it works

Little more complex

I'm sure we could figure out a easy way to create functional injector.
It is hard to track down information on it due to overlapping meanings the
phase "steam injector". This device was so simple it had to go extinct and
be replaced with more costly devices.

It seems you can use exhaust steam to drive the steam injector also.

exhaust steam to drive the steam injector

If your feed water is cold forget about this next link.
If you are heating the feed water (the hopper) then
you will need to review Operating ranges of feed water against the boiler pressure.
Performance of Injectors

This web page lets you determine how many GPM = how many HP.
Shipco® Pumps : MathWizard™ (Size Boiler Feed Units)

A Sight Glass (I think it is called that) would be nice to have on the reservoir
tank to see the water level, but could be a safety hazard.

IMHO, I don't believe a steam engine is required or needed to provide the
power to turn the friction device. There is another way, low cost and low
tech. I will leave that idea for another post.

Giving another go at keeping it simple.
Randy

[rickoff]

Hi all,

I noticed that Near Futures Energy Corporation | is selling pre built green steam machines for $1890 US. Brian

Wow, Brian, that's a lot to spend for a 1 hp engine, and perhaps too small to be useful with the friction boiler (if you're hoping for a self-runner). I'd prefer to go with the 10 hp Green CD and hard to find parts kit at $132, pick up the remaining parts and materials locally, and pay a local machine shop to make up the very few parts requiring close tolerance machine work. Just a guess, but you could probably complete the build for a total cost of around $600 or less if you are willing and able to construct the framework and assemble the engine. The plans are for a 10 hp steam engine, but can easily be scaled down to 1 or 2 hp.

Go back to posts #66 and 67 for further information about the Green Steam Engine, and the CD and parts kit.

Best,

Rick

[rickoff]

Reply to Randy (Vortex):

IMHO, I don't believe a steam engine is required or needed to provide the power to turn the friction device. There is another way, low cost and low tech. I will leave that idea for another post.

Hi Randy,

You are right, of course. A steam engine is not required to provide drive power to spin the friction rotor. Any viable and available method for creating drive shaft rotation at 1800 to 2000 rpm, while producing friction, would be just fine. The steam engine is only suggested for those who want to have a self-runner that is also capable of driving an electrical generator. I'll be interested to see what method you have in mind.

Your injector idea would certainly work, and it might be worth experimenting with that. After watching the video demonstration, though, it seems that the surges of water and steam would probably cause pressure fluctuations in the reservoir tank, which is something you want to avoid.

I should take this opportunity to point something out that may not be all that apparent to some readers, although I think that Randy does understand this. The name of this thread (Friction Steam Boiler) is really a misnomer, because Lloyd's device does not actually use a boiler. Conventional steam applications normally burn some type of fuel to create heat that boils water, thus creating steam. Lloyd's method is different in that no fuel is actually burned, and there is no water body being boiled. Lloyd uses a drip system that allows water droplets to fall to the hot bottom plate of the steam vessel, and these droplets explode into steam upon contact with the plate. Pure steam occupies about 1600 times the volume of the mass of water contained in one droplet, so you can see how quickly the steam vessel would fill with steam. The pressure would also build up quickly with each successive droplet converting to additional steam. This is an ideal situation for producing large amounts of steam very quickly. If water were to begin pooling inside the steam vessel, then this would be an indication that the water drip flow rate is set too high for the amount of frictional heat that is being produced. To regulate this correctly, you would either need to increase the heat, or decrease the drip flow, to the point where water does not pool and accumulate in the steam vessel. If water pools, and is not immediately converted to steam, then you do have a boiler.

I will be posting a new drawing tomorrow that will show a cutaway view of the steam vessel, drip system, rotor, and wood feed system, that I think will help people to better visualize what is actually happening at the heart of the device.

Thanks to everyone for your continued interest, and best wishes to all,

Rick

[Jetijs]

Hi all.
My progress is slow. I have made the bearing/motor holder plate and coupled the motor and roller axis together, but at first try there was a vibration so big that the whole table shcked. Turned out that the guys that did the lathe work, made a mistake and there was a rather big disbalance on the friction cylinder. After they fixed that, a new problem appeared - the bearings heated up very much, especially the one nearest to the motor axis. They got so hot that I could not put my hand on them and that was only on just about 500-600RPM. I used a flexible axis coupler to couple both axis together, these couplers are designed to adapt to small imprecisions on axis alignment. Nevertheless the bearings did heat up. I tried to put one bearing on a steel rod, then I put the rod in the lathe and made it spin, I held the bearing with the bearing holder in my hands so that it could not rotate along with the rod. At high speeds the bearing did not heat up, so the problem is not in the bearings themselves. I spent much time in trying to figure out what the problem is, I thought that maybe the bearing/motor holder plate is bent a little bit so that both bearings are not exactly aligned to each other when the holders are tightened. So I made a new plate but with the same results. I even tried to align both axis as perfectly parallel as possible before coupling them together - no luck. Seems that there is a small offcenter on one of the axis that makes a load on the bearings. If I wont be able to get this running as it should, then I will need to attach the motor to the heater shaft via pulleys and a belt, just like Loyd did in his videos. Here is a picture

[byjoveoldchap]

It is a Friction Heater, not a Self-Running System

This looks like rather affordable and powerful steam engine:
7 Cylinder Rotary Radial live steam engine - eBay (item 260288850925 end time Oct-17-08 15:54:27 PDT)

Thanks

"The cylinders rotate, and the crankshaft is fixed".

~ WHAT...???

~ How on earth do you balance a motor like that? ~ "The cylinders rotate.." I'm amazed if that is true!

Lloyd's steam engine was manufactured by QUASITURBINE of Canada, which builds several sizes of steam engines,

Thats appears to be a Tesla Turbine design, why don't they admit it and give Tesla recognition?

I think you should drill holes in the center block, and go for cavitation as an experiment. Perhaps we don't even need the wood.

You're absolutely right theremart! That idea was illustrated on the same BBC program that first showed Stanley Meyer's Water Fuel Cell, Horizon? methinks.

Glen,
... I agree with you, if Oak works, then it is reasonable to believe that many "hard wood" species would work also.
Peter

I have not witnessed this in operation, but it seems to me that the wood hardness is not really what is doing the work here.

Any wood used in this fashion will heat up, smoke and then CARBON will be created on the face directly in contact with the rotating steel shaft. This carbon edge is very hard wearing... why do you think carbon brushes are used in nearly all electric motors?

And remember, they are under continuous pressure, being forced against a copper armature for thousands of hours or even years, yet they seem to wear quite well, don't they?

hmmm... and I seem to remember that Tesla after bombarding the hardest elements available, discovered that carbon lasted longer than any of them and this was how it became known as Tesla's 'Carbon Button Lamp.'

That's right, Peter, some tests should be done using differing wood varieties cut to the same size, and with the same measured force applied, and recording the time required to heat metal from room temperature to a hot sizzling skillet temperature...
Rick

Oh dear...

THe Quaisturbine design suer reminds me of the Tesla Turbine. Of course, the Tesla Turbine is very efficient.

Great niidji, well spotted !

I recall a device that is in principle very much like this.
It was some kind of free energy documentary wich i saw it on. The device looked like a centrifugal pump, but instead the impeller was a large cylinder with dimples on the outside, the gap between the housing and the cylinder would be filled with water. Turning the wheel would heat the water into steam. COP > 1
There was this fire-station that already had one, and a firefighter was talking about how good it worked.

You've got it Jan H - "There was this fire-station that already had one, and a firefighter was talking about how good it worked."

That is exactly the same one which was shown on the BBC Horizon program!

"the impeller was a large cylinder with dimples on the outside," ~ I am sure they were partial drillings into the outer rotor, which caused cavitation, exactly as theremart suggested..!

Hi Jan,
You are speaking of a Cavitation Heater. That device works well, but is relying on turbulence in water to cause the friction that creates steam.
Rick

Hi rickoff, if I have got this right, you are a plumber or are experienced enough with plumbing to understand a lot of the principles at work here? I thought you may be interested to know that the Cavitation Heater idea was developed from simply observing the common 'water-hammer' effect that sometimes occurs in pipework. Quite amazing, eh?

The bottom of the steam vessel box is situated 1/4 inch above the spinning metal hub. As the hub heats up from the friction of the wood pressed against it, the heat rises and is concentrated against the underside of the steam vessel box.

Inside the box, a controlled water drip takes place. As the water droplets meet the hot lower inside surface of the box, they instantly explode into steam, and pressure builds within the box. A pressure gauge should be mounted on the steam vessel, as well as an over-pressure relief valve to allow excess steam pressure to escape.

When the steam pressure and temperature reaches an adequate level, an outlet valve is opened at the top of the steam vessel box, and steam is then delivered to a steam engine input port, ........

About the electric motor used in the video: He says he used a 1 horsepower, 110 volt AC motor which turned the hub at about 1700 rpm. This sounds like a common induction motor, which would be rated at 1800 rpm. The low horsepower rating of the motor demonstrates the fact that little drag is actually caused by the friction, but a 2 or 3 hp motor would probably be desirable to allow extended running times without overheating.
Rick

PLEASE NOTE: I have been through all these posts here for the first time tonight and I have serious reservations with the idea that this is, or could be a self-running device.

I think Lloyd Tanner is a wonderful man who states very clearly, that he is not an engineer, but simply a man with an idea.

I believe this idea of Lloyd Tanner has excellent potential, but in only a few pages, on this forum, it has turned into a device that is becoming unbelievable.

I also believe that we are all keen to find answers to solving global problems. By sharing our thoughts, ideas and experiences, we can and will, achieve more together, than relying on professional individuals who get paid for doing as they are told.

Here are some of the problems I see with this idea as it is being promoted...

"The bottom of the steam vessel box is situated 1/4 inch above the spinning metal hub".

• With a fast spinning rotor or hub, I simply cannot understand how the heat from the 4" hub? will rise upwards, move across a quarter inch gap and still have enough heat energy to transfer that heat to a large metal steam enclosure, sufficiently to boil water droplets instantly on the inside.

"A pressure gauge should be mounted on the steam vessel"

• the Steam vessel is, or should be thought of as a boiler.We have all seen pictures illustrating steam boilers. They are very large and are designed to store a vast quantity of steam under extreme pressure, very similar to an air-compressor cylinder or tank.

"steam is then delivered to a steam engine input port..."

• A steam engine, (of a size necessary to turn a generator and thus provide the electricity to run the electric motor), requires a vast amount of steam under very high pressure. I believe the 'steam vessel' which is focused upon, would not store, or generate enough steam to warm the engine from cold.
  
  When steam first enters a steam engine, it condenses extremely quickly as it makes contact with anything that is below 100 degrees. Only when the metal temperatures have been raised to a high enough temperature, will the engine begin to run efficiently and make the best use of the steam.

"He says he used a 1 horsepower, 110 volt AC motor "

• I am sure that Peter would quickly tell us how much power is required to run a motor of that size and thereby determine the steam engine hp reqd.

"The low horsepower rating of the motor demonstrates the fact that little drag is actually caused by the friction,"

• Again, ask Peter, or try this yourself. Find any large sized motor of about 1HP. Spin it as fast as you can. Now remove the carbon brushes and spin it again. Did it spin easier and much faster? How much drag do YOU think is caused by the friction of those carbon brushes that are only held in place by 'soft' springs? ~ little drag ? I think not.

"...but a 2 or 3 hp motor would probably be desirable to allow extended running times without overheating. "

Hmmmm..... Enough said about that

My final thoughts:
rickoff has made the biggest contribution to this topic and has spent time and money telephoning and writing his very detailed reports and I congratulate you rickoff for all that you have done. Also the excellent diagrams provided by others.

It is very exciting to hear of a new idea that we think could be easily replicated and I believe the excitement has run away with common sense here.

There is nothing wrong with having BIG ideas and our imagination is a wonderful device that inspires us to create better things and solve problems which at times can seem impossible.

This is a great idea from Lloyd , but as he says himself, it is simply a friction heater and not a self-running system!

I still think that my oil heat transferring method could be more efficient than transferring the heat just through an 1/4" air gap. Plus you will make additional heat from the oil turbulences and friction against the cylinder walls.
Thanks,
Jetijs

Jetijs transfer of heat method seems much more plausible.

Hi Rick,
Has he indicated the operating pressure of this unit,

This device is so simple similar to a DC Motor set of brushes running on a commutator, Lloyd Tanner definitely has my gratitude for his hard work and innovation.
Glen

I also wonder what pressure is suggested?

"similar to a DC Motor set of brushes running on a commutator," ~ snap!

The objective of the Friction heater is to produce steam, perhaps if we use cavitation to produce the steam instead of the wood we could eliminate the wood altogether,

The main problem I see with this whole setup is you could not walk away from it. Steam is too dangerous to leave running itself.

I also looked at Jetijs setup and thought what if you were to introduce cavitation to that setup, would that not make the oil heat up faster?

Some thoughts there from theremart that I totally agree with.

Last words:
I congratulate everyone who submits and shares ideas to better mankind and I hope my remarks do not offend, or stop anyone from trying!

Best wishes,
By Jove!

[Vortex]

More on injectors and ideas of use

hi byjoveoldchap (jove) and all

I think in post #87 you have lots of valid points.

Steam does not begin to do work until the device being used
to extra work has been brought up to temperature. The steam is
loss during this heat transfer. Boiler or no boiler there is still
a warm up time frame.

I like the Cavitation Heater also, but duplication is the problem for low
tech, no machine shop people like myself. Just the one cylinder, the
friction cylinder is a hurdle for me as well, it seems, for others with
great experience, let alone two and closely spaced at twice the rpm
we think we need for friction. What's the torque requirements on that?
Lloyd might have gotten his idea from the Cavitation Heater and
thought as I, too hard. Simple yes.

Getting the heat from the friction area into the steam creation area
should be thought about. A vegetable oil reaches its flash point around
600°F and with copper coils inside the open top of friction tube device
could allow, without pumping, the heat to rise into the steam area.
Fire or alternative heating of the steam area prior to start up should
be part of the design. Easy removal of the friction tube device should
be kept in mind.

Hi Rick and All,

After watching the video demonstration, though, it seems that the surges
of water and steam would probably cause pressure fluctuations in the reservoir
tank, which is something you want to avoid.

Other injector designs do not surge. These devices are fully automatic
and keeps a boiler full.

That was the 1st such device I found, it's a "lifting" device, they are very
strange with very high lifting.
It isn't the best type for what we need. That type does not fully use up all the
steam up and thus ejects some with water. That type requires adjusting also.

These designs do not have waste steam or water.
The Korting design is self-governing.
The Friedmann design is a Korting on stereos with
fixed nozzles, no movable parts that get out of order and no cam motion, no sliding
or rolling levers and no ground joints or packing to require frequent adjustment.

Oh, the above designs, when used for water feed into a boiler (reservoir)
have an efficiency 100% , not about 100% or 99%.
These are not like one you see in the video.
I linked to that video because that was just the only thing I could
find other than pictures in museums.

I have documents on these designs. At first glance they look hard to duplicate only
because it is compact in size design, which makes what is really going on seem
complex at first. Simple isn't always easy though. The easiest way to make use of
these devices is pick a target operating psi for the steam and stay there. This will
simplify the design and in making one that works. These devices can also be hooked
directly to a water line, no tank.

Another device kinda like an injector, is able to create droplets in a spray which are
between 14 and 30 micrometers across into the steam tank .. a reservoir of water
isn't needed. The mist requires 6 bar = 87 psi to be created, far less I sure if you
do not want micrometer size droplets.
These droplets could then be pressured up to enter the steam creation area just
like an injector does with water into a boiler, I think.
This could be done with 100% efficiency, also.

Another device kinda like an injector, is able to create 22 hydraulic hp in water being
less than 8" long x 3" diameter. Same company that designed the micrometer droplets,
so I will assume at 6 bar = 87 psi. Unknown what gallons/min to psi ratio made up that
22 hp. If we create just 6 hp and get 80% work out of a water turbine, would that not be
enough to run a 1 hp electric motor to turn the friction device?

Understand that this system would create no waste steam,
it would create waste heat in the working water which would have
to be extracted at some point.

Steam for any other uses would have to be live steam.
A boiler is a good thing, heats the water, but slow start up.
This system could start very fast (relatively) but would require
as long as any boiler to obtain full warm up of the working water.
100% heat transfer from steam to water.
The working water is your hot water reserve feed into the steam
creation area.

Sum it up, if the injector principles are fully used:
no hopper, no reservoir, no steam engine or no steam turbine.
We use unfriendly steam to move friendly water.
Extracting work from water is much lower tech compared to steam.

During start up there will already be some water from the condensed steam
from the last shut down or toss a cup of water in.
Therefore the psi will rise as this steam gains heat.
Once up to 87 psi, the micrometer droplets injector can begin.

Typical efficiency (?about?).
steam turbine, around 35%
steam engine, around 30%
undershot water wheel, up to 25%
overshot water wheel, up to 75% (Would require a ?large? water pump)
center water wheel, up to 45%
water turbine up to 80+%

The question now is, does anyone want to learn more, see links and
read the documents I have on these devices?
This post was already long enough and I didn't want to distract.

How can one create working steam, say 87 psi without the friction device
and without a full-blown boiler setup, for 2-3 second test runs
to test prototypes these devices?

How hot is the friction tube going to get?
Will not that heat effect the motor?
The friction tube could be mounted on a pipe / pulley with
water spraying into the pipe to cool the pipe with obstruction
half way up to keep the water from cooling the friction tube.
Dripping water on the pulley where it will fling off away from the motor if needed.

Hoping to keep the material build Low tech ..
Randy

[byjoveoldchap]

'FREE ENERGY' AS SEEN ON BRITISH T.V. by Harold Aspden

[I]
You've got it Jan H - "There was this fire-station that already had one, and a firefighter was talking about how good it worked."

My apologies, ~ a correction ref: the Program and TV Channel.

~~~

"FREE ENERGY" AS SEEN ON BRITISH T.V.[/B] by Harold Aspden

From: NEN, Vol. 3, No. 9, February 1996, pp. 10-12.

On Sunday, 17 December 1995, viewers in U.K. saw an hour-long T V. program
which, at long last, puts across the clear message that "free energy" is on the way.

The program was featured in the EQUINOX series which appears periodically on our T.V. Channel 4, its title being

"It Runs On Water."

"Jim Griggs of Hydrodynamics, Inc. demonstrated the assembly and operation of a "hydrosonic water pump" which operated over-unity by producing hot water or steam with energy in excess of the electrical energy input to the pump motor. "Over-unity" was confirmed by satisfied customers, including the Albany Fire Station, where engineers from the "local university" and the "local power company" had been called in to verify the over-100% efficiency.

The presentation was impressive. A drum-type rotor close-fitting within a cylindrical housing had numerous holes In its surface, which presumably produced vortices and turbulence and acted as a pump driving water through the apparatus.

The "problem" it seemed was that Jim Griggs was not a scientist cast from the academic mold, so the technology had to be somewhat suspect - even though it worked!"

click to read more ~ "FREE ENERGY" AS SEEN ON BRITISH T.V. by Harold Aspden

even more

[Vortex]

Jim Griggs of Hydrodynamics, Inc. demonstrated the assembly and operation of a "hydrosonic water pump"

Hydro Dynamics, Inc - The Solutions Company

"The spinning action generates hydrodynamic cavitation in the rotor cavities away from the metal surfaces."

Yep cavitation is the easy part, without damage is the hard part.

Not a "Joe the Plumber" type of project though.
Again I really like it.
There isn't anyway I could build one. The Cost, no machine shop, lack of
knowledge which are the same things that would prevent all but a select
few from trying to build one .. and fewer than that would do it correctly.

Hyrodynamic calls it ShockWave Power™ .. well I hope we can make
use of the Shock Wave power. That's what I propose we do, but
a shock wave created using the steam not a shock wave to
create the steam.

Randy