Friction Steam Boiler

[rickoff]

How could one use all-thread as a shaft?
I had initially bypassed this idea but after evaluation of the alternatives
it seems the easiest way if it could be done.

What part, a sleeve, could be used at the cylinder ends to cover the
all-thread to make it smooth between the cylinder and the shaft.
Only needs to be 1" long.
Is there a way to make the shaft through the cylinder end, self-centering?

What parts would allow self-centering of the shaft inside the pvc piston
as nuts are tighten down upon it?

Talk about easy. How can this be done?
Help Help.
Should I start a new Topic, what would I call it?

Just Hoping
Randy

Assuming you are referring to use of a threaded rod for the shaft, yes a sleeve placed over the threaded rod could offer a smooth surface where needed. For self-centering, use tapered cone shapes at each end of the piston, and same for the cylinder ends. If you don't understand what I mean, take a look at a brake drum lathe, and the tapered cones which are placed over the shaft to center the brake drum or rotor.

Rick

[brenie]

Rick, thanks for all the info: every time I pop in there is a wealth of hints.
Just hope I can make use of it all.

Seasons Greetings to everyone.

Regard, Bren.

[rickoff]

Thanks for the kind words, Bren. I'm glad that you have found this thread to be interesting and useful. Keep coming back, as there will be lots more to see in the weeks and months ahead.

Best wishes to you,

Rick

[rickoff]

A little Holiday cheer for you....

Just something fun to spark your imagination and give you something to think and chuckle about......


Enjoy,

Rick

YouTube - Crabfu SteamWorks

[theremart]

Wow...

Just something fun to spark your imagination and give you something to think and chuckle about......


Enjoy,

Rick

YouTube - Crabfu SteamWorks

here is an interview with him...

YouTube - Crabfu on Discovery Ch 2008

amazing!

[rickoff]

Thanks for that video link, Mart. Very interesting.

[Vortex]

Steam Engineering Tutorials

Steam Engineering Tutorials

For an idea of quality of the tutorials without
going way over a beginners head, here's the
one on Check Valves

Enjoy
Randy

[rickoff]

Reply to Randy:

Hi Randy, and thanks for the steam tutorial link. One can learn a great deal about steam from reading the tutorials, and I have often referred to information contained therein while moving this thread forward.

This evening, as the New Year rapidly approaches, a storm of gale force winds and low temperatures (10F degrees or less) is also approaching my area. The result will be a wind chill factor of well below zero. I don't at all look forward to that!

In the coming weeks, as we eagerly await results from replicators of the Lloyd Tanner friction steamer device, I would like to steer this thread in the direction of steam utilization if that is okay with readers. Of special interest, in this regard, is the Tesla turbine link that Randy supplied earlier, and can be found here:
http://www.aircaraccess.com/pdf/taep.pdf

The pdf file gives useful replication information concerning both the Tesla turbine and reciprocating engine designs, and makes for very interesting reading. It is amazing that Tesla was able to build a turbine using 10 inch diameter discs and rated at 110 hp. A larger turbine unit, which measured about 2ft by 3ft in size, put out 200 hp at less than 100 psi of steam pressure. By scaling the turbine design down with the use of smaller diameter discs, it should be possible to build a very efficient steam turbine capable of around 10 hp. What I find to be particularly interesting about the Tesla turbine are the following 4 factors:
1. The Tesla turbine is said to be about 95% efficient. That's truly amazing when compared to ICE or other steam engine/turbine efficiencies.
2. Unloaded, the Tesla turbine can rev up to between 25,000 or more rpm within just 1 second after being started!
3. Low speed operation is equally as impressive, because this is when the turbine develops the greatest amount of torque. Since this is true, we don't need a high revving machine to drive Lloyd's friction heater or power a drive shaft for an electrical generator. Thus, we can conserve steam while putting out relatively large amounts of power.
4. The design is amazingly simple - basically just a few round, flat discs placed on a shaft within an enclosure, and with external nozzles that direct the steam flow.

Here's a small and interesting adaptation of the idea, which someone shows being tested on top of a pressure cooker. Incidentally, pressure cookers are designed to operate at about 20 psi or less steam pressure:
YouTube - Steam disk turbine - Tesla turbine

Here is another small Tesla Turbine design which is being used as an air turbine. This clearly shows the discs and spacings, and uses a single adjustable nozzle which can reverse the rotation as the nozzle angle is changed.
YouTube - A Tesla Turbine


Enjoy,

Rick Happy New Year to all

[Alana]

Hi Rick,

thanks for your link to the Tesla turbine. I hope this turbine could built as simple as suggested.
See also a very interesting link: RSDESIGN (in German language, sorry :-)
I have had several telephone calls with the owner of this side. But he doesn't produce nor sell this turbines. I hope his sketches are more than ideas. Ideas are out there more than enough.

We are all awaiting results from replicators of the Lloyd Tanner friction steamer device.

Regards
Alana

[Vortex]

What I find to be particularly interesting about the Tesla turbine are the following 4 factors:
1. The Tesla turbine is said to be about 95% efficient. That's truly amazing when compared to ICE or other steam engine/turbine efficiencies.
2. Unloaded, the Tesla turbine can rev up to between 25,000 or more rpm within just 1 second after being started!
3. Low speed operation is equally as impressive, because this is when the turbine develops the greatest amount of torque. Since this is true, we don't need a high revving machine to drive Lloyd's friction heater or power a drive shaft for an electrical generator. Thus, we can conserve steam while putting out relatively large amounts of power.
4. The design is amazingly simple - basically just a few round, flat discs placed on a shaft within an enclosure, and with external nozzles that direct the steam flow.

Size but mostly Spacing of the disks determine effectiveness with different
working fluids: water, steam, air, etc.
Allowing room for changing the spacing would be good for
evaluation of what works best and additional uses of the turbine.
Also, very nice is not having to worry about wet steam, dry steam,
condensation or mixed fluids with your Tesla Turbine, it all WORKS.
You could use a water/steam injector nozzle into your turbine.
One could use multiple turbines until all the steam is gone because it
runs just as good with water.

I have not seen any data on air pumping or water pumping and it would be
interesting to see how effective the turbine could be used in this way.
If you don't want to get into step-down gear boxes or whatever other
complications are involved.
One other idea would be two turbines with a single shaft? One takes steam
and the other pumps water to a waterwheel / turbine for work extraction.
More turbines, but removes the need for a gear box from the equation?

Randy

[rickoff]

Thanks for the added thoughts, Randy. As far as regulating the speed of the steam turbine goes, I think this will be a relatively easy matter. While it is capable of 25,000 to 35,000 rpm with no load, it will definitely run quite a bit slower when loaded by the friction device and an electric generator head. Regulating the drive speed to around 2,000 rpm shouldn't pose a problem, and will be dependent on three factors:
1. Temperature of the steam
2. Pressure of the steam
3. Volume (flow rate) of steam available

These factors are very controllable with Lloyd's friction device, and the fact that the turbine will run well with wet steam would allow us to minimalize the amount of friction needed, either by reducing the friction rotor or roller speed, or by reducing the force applied to the wood.

Yes, adding a second turbine to a common drive shaft would certainly be an option worthy of consideration. Page 69 of the pdf file shows such an application. Horsepower can be tripled, while the steam resource is fully utilized.

There is so much vesatility available with the Tesla turbine, because it can be used not only for drive power, but also as a pump or a compressor. The uses and configurations are only limited by imagination.

At the bottom of my post #203 there is a link to a Tesla air engine which is nicely constructed, and offers a clear view of the workings. On just 20 psi air pressure, this engine revs up to 19,000 rpm with no problem without a load. When driving a generator, the speed still appears to be quite adequate, although certainly well below the unloaded revs.

Definitely some good stuff to think about.

Rick

[rileydad48]

Rick
Do you have any idea as to the horsepower Tesla's turbine is capable of, either singlely or in multiple on a common shaft.. using Tanner's friction "boiler"
Just trying to figure out how usefull the combination would be in the generation of electricity.. ?? Thanks, you are truely an asset to this forum..

Paul

[rileydad48]

Rick... I know this is not really part of Tanner's Friction Boiler thread but...Tesla's turbine is really fasinating..
On page 14 of the pdf file, he talks about the temerature of the input air verses the output air... correct me if I wrong, but can Tesla's turbine be used as an air conditioner too??? If so, is there anything that it can"t do??
Motor, pump, compressor and air conditioner.. !!! why is this not on the open market to purchase??

[rileydad48]

Rick... finished reading the pdf file and the answers to all my guestion were there... Should have done that first.. sorry... This is really interesting.. I think this could be something very usefull for energy independance.. I have most of the materials to build the Friction "boiler" and will try the Tesla's turbine when the boiler is working.. I'll keep you guys informed.. My design is very similar to Lloyd's new horizontal roller with some differences. The motor will be a 2.5hp 48 volt dc, using a Curtis speed controler. The water drop system will be injectors (similar to fuel injectors) timed off the main shaft and fed by a high pressure pump, all switched on after the vessel reaches temperature. The pump and injectors will be 12vdc similar that used in auto engines.. hopefully this design will elliminate the water drop system and all valving that is needed. The Water tank will not have to be pressurized and the returning condensed water can be reused over and over... The Tesla turbine could be used to drive a DC generator. Am I rambling if so I'm sorry but this is really interesting... Really get a kick out of this forum Thanks for listening..

Paul

[rickoff]

Reply to Paul (rileydad48):

Rick... I know this is not really part of Tanner's Friction Boiler thread but...Tesla's turbine is really fasinating..
On page 14 of the pdf file, he talks about the temerature of the input air verses the output air... correct me if I wrong, but can Tesla's turbine be used as an air conditioner too??? If so, is there anything that it can"t do??
Motor, pump, compressor and air conditioner.. !!! why is this not on the open market to purchase??

Hi Paul,

To answer a question you posted earlier, Tesla said that his turbines were capable of producing 10 horsepower per pound of weight, and he used steel discs in his prototypes. That in itself is amazing - just think of a 500 horsepower engine weighing only 50 pounds!

Yes, your assumptions about air conditioning possibilities are correct. So many possible applications for the Tesla turbine that it certainly does beg the question that you ask - "why is this not on the open market to purchase?" The simplified answer is found in just one word - suppression. The design is so simple that any teenager with access to a metal shop at their high school could build one and maintain it. The auto industry wouldn't like that, would they? And neither would big oil. When Tesla first came to the United States, Thomas Edison recognized Tesla as a brilliant young man and immediately hired him, but later let him go when Tesla showed Edison some of his fantastic ideas for AC generation and distribution. Edison was a brilliant inventor in his own right, but Tesla was a man of superior intellect, and Edison feared him. Edison publicly mocked Tesla, and called him a dangerous man. Tesla's ideas were way ahead of their time, and his motivation was the belief that low, or no cost, power should be freely available to all. He didn't have sufficient funds of his own to develop, manufacture, and distribute his many inventions, so he relied upon the backing of wealthy financiers like J.P. Morgan. Morgan was very interested in Tesla's research, and quite willing to give financial backing as long as he could see that there was money to be made from these inventions. When Tesla approached Morgan with his plans to build an electrical energy distribution system that would have provided free energy worldwide, Morgan cut off all further funding to Tesla. Tesla continued work on his ideas, and registered a great many patents, but nearly all of this went the way of obscurity. Tesla didn't have the money to develop his ideas, and after revealing that he had received intelligible transmissions from outer space, most people regarded him as being a "mad scientist." The elite scientific community, and the leading world governments, knew all too well that Tesla's inventions were serious business, and later developed his plans for particle beam weapons, and the HAARP device. Hardly anyone outside the elite scientific community knew of Tesla's research with mechanical devices. He developed his steam turbine plans around 1900, and if the design had been adopted by the transportation industry then it is likely that the reciprocating internal combustion engine would never have been implemented, as the ICE was far inferior - and still is! As I mentioned in post #103 of this thread, steam powered cars outsold gasoline powered cars up until about 1918, and the reason for the switch to gas was because the gas powered vehicles sold for about 1/8 the price of a steam powered vehicle. If Tesla's simplified turbine had been adopted, the price of steam vehicles could have been drastically reduced, but the steam carmakers stuck to their antiquated designs and systems and became a thing of the past. Incidentally, Tesla also patented a gas turbine design in Great Britain.

I would suggest that you view the video, "Nikola Tesla - The Forgotten Wizard" to understand why many of his ideas went the way of obscurity.
YouTube - Nikola Tesla - The Forgotten Wizard

For further enlightenment on Nikola Tesla, view "Nikola Tesla: The Missing Secrets," which is a 5 part series. See part 1, and also find links to the remaining parts: YouTube - Nikola Tesla: The Missing Secrets (part 1 of 5)
Some very interesting video, and commentary by well known scientists, including Tom Bearden.

To learn more about the Tesla turbine, you can't do any better than by reading Tesla's own words on the subject. See the following site, and begin reading the October 15, 1911 New York Herald Tribune interview, just below the photo of Tesla: Nikola Tesla: Disk Turbine / Pump (Articles, patents, links)
You will also find the actual patents shown there. The turbine design which we are discussing in this thread is US Patent # 1,061,206.

Enjoy!

Rick