What happens when the power goes off?

[Lidmotor]

Excellent advice

Glad to hear that you are okay, and were able to quench that fire quickly, Mart.

I thought that you had a waste oil burner that you could use for heat. Or am I mistaken? If you don't have one, I can send you the plans. That uses a discarded hot water tank, plus a few odds and ends, and is a weekend project. You can usually scarf up some waste oil from your local recycling center, a service station that does oil changes, or a restaurant that deep fries foods.

In this situation, it would be great to have one of Lloyd's friction heaters handy to at least provide heat. We had a wicked bad ice storm here in Maine a few years back, during the dead of winter, and many people were without any electric power for 2 to 5 weeks. To survive at home, I hooked the cooling sytem of one of my my cars (bypassed the radiator and fan, and used a 190 degree thermostat) to circulate through my home's radiator loop, ran an inverter off the battery for AC power to keep my fridge running, and just kept the engine at a 600 rpm idle. I'd shut the engine down while we were gone to work, and the house would only drop to about 45 degrees by the time we returned home, even with the outside temperature down around 20 degrees. And while I was at home I only ran the engine intermittently. I had some heavy cast iron radiators at that time, and they radiated heat for a long time after the system was shut down, so it worked out quite well.

Your cellar should be the easiest part of your house to heat, and you can retreat there in an emergency. It will usually remain at 40 degrees or higher with no heat applied, even when it is quite cold outside, so it doesn't take much to raise the temp another 25 degrees or so. A Glo-Warm propane heater will easily keep your cellar toasty with little fuel used.
GloWarm blueflame heaters are vent free heaters
For that matter, you could keep an old propane kitchen stove/oven unit in your cellar for both cooking and heating, and making hot water.

I hope all goes well for you, Mart. You must be in a warmer climate than I am - it is just 22 degrees here as I write this.

Best wishes to you,

Rick

Rick,

That was was excellent advice about the GloWarm blueflame heater. That coupled with two 5 gal bottles of propane would get you out of a jam in this kind of emergency. Where I live almost every year someone brings their BBQ inside to get wam and dies of carbon monoxide poisioning. These Glowarm heaters are safe, it appears, and not that expensive.
Your story about using your car cooling system water piped into the house and it's electrical system with an inverter was also a great tip. I have never heard of that before and the description of how you actually used it was very helpful. Thanks.

Lidmotor

[Sephiroth]

Where do i get a burner for Sephiroth has he made them ?

ELBH TSL-50 Wood Burning Hot Air Heater : Buy ELBH TSL-50 Wood Burning Hot Air Heater at Axminster Power Tool Centre

I believe this is the burner he is using but I am sure he said it heated water as well He has got a seperate extraction system that collects all the dust from the machines and it can burn waste off-cuts as well.

[Bodkins]

Sephiroth
its is a boiler too.

[ashtweth]

Mart i got burned on my back once badly, so you don't know how glad i am you didn't, trust me you don't wanna go through that. Since there is already great practical advice here already mentioned - Ill just say we need to make houses out of HEMP.They are fire proof.

Also whilst i am at it, look at the earth ships, they are oriented so they get the full sun and LIGHT too. Seems the WESTS designs are all in need of a total recall, to utilize the elements around us already.Also monolithic domes are fire, earth quake and hurricane proof!

Ash

[rickoff]

Rick,
Your story about using your car cooling system water piped into the house and it's electrical system with an inverter was also a great tip. I have never heard of that before and the description of how you actually used it was very helpful. Thanks.
Lidmotor

Thanks, Lidmotor. That was just something borne out of necessity, and the only thing that realistically made sense to me at the time in order to stay in my house. A lot of people ended up leaving home to either stay with relatives elsewhere, or to go to a designated public shelter. All of the public school gymnasiums were set up to receive people, and generators brought in and maintained by army reserve people. I thought about leaving home to stay at a motel somewhere, but didn't want to spend the bucks, and I would have had to drain my heating system and water pipes if I left. I decided that it wouldn't be much more of a chore to rig up my car to provide heat, and it really wasn't all that difficult. I adapted my car's radiator hoses by inserting and clamping pvc pipe in them, and reduced down to garden hose fittings - one hose for supply and the other for return. The car's water pump supplied the circulation, and I simply opened my heating sytem zone valves manually to maintain constant circulation. Crude, but effective. It worked.

In earlier years, I had lived up north, closer to my cottage in "Downeast Maine," and my budget was very tight there. I heated my home there with a double barrelled woodstove that I built from two 50 gallon oil drums, and used 7 cords of firewood, which I kept stacked and under cover in my garage. I had a propane gas lamp mounted in each room of my house to give me light during power outages(those worked great and threw a lot of light), and also had a combination kerosene and gas stove which featured two kerosene burners, four gas burners, and two ovens. In the winter, we did all of our cooking on the kerosene burner stovetop, and in the oven warmed by the kerosene. My wife loved it, as the oven temperature was constantly at 350 degrees. I also wrapped 5/8" copper tubing coils around one of the 6 inch wide by 10 inch high kerosene burner stacks, and used that to automatically circulate hot water to a large holding tank set up behind the stove, so we never ran out of hot water in the winter. In the summer, we used the propane stove and oven, and had a 40 gallon propane water heater. Even though we were relatively poor, we always had peace of mind knowing that we were ready to take on whatever energy outage or weather situation that came along, and that felt really good. If anyone wants more information on anything I have discussed, just let me know and I'll send you some further details and try to answer any questions you may have.

Best wishes,

Rick

[Lidmotor]

Simple ideas for great living

Rick,

Thanks for the description of your earlier life. I think that sometimes we look back at our leaner years and wonder if maybe they were happier times. When I was 21 I sailed an old beat up 29 ft. sailboat to Hawaii and back with a girl friend. We spent the winter there tied up to the breakwater at Ala Wai boat harbor in Honolulu. We were extremely poor (I had $600) but we both got jobs there and lived happily on that little boat until we sailed home the next summer. We used kerosene lanterns for light and stole ice out of the hotels for our little cooler. I carried the water out to the boat in the dingy. We had no car and got around by walking or using the bus. I learned from that experience just how little you need to get along quite nicely---and be happy.

Lidmotor

[theremart]

Update...

Today I finaly got the permits so they can now tell the Electric and gas company they can start my service again.

Possibility of power tommow.

What I learned today.

My 2 cycle generator is a very cool thing. I was able to power both my laptop, my internet connect and charge my cell phone and charge a semi battery all at the same time. After the gas gave out ( 5 hours with 3 gallons of gas ( aprrox ) ) I could then take the semi battery and run my power from it. It was fully charged to 13.55 resting voltage so I ran off of it for about 4 hours. holding up my computer and internet connection.

I am saving the rest of this charge for tomorrow, now I am running off of solar charging of my reserve batteries. I have found that I don't have to carry the batteries around if I run the 100' extension cord from the inverter. This my back appreciates I can leave the batteries attached to the solar charger and then rotate them as needed.

I have been amazed at the total silence of the house. Strange to have everything off.

Candles are a good thing, they have helped to supliment the areas that do not need much light.

I have been thinking of taking the semi batteries and thru the inverter running my battery recharger for small batteries. This is not very effiecient, however this insures they would get proper charge. Yes I could use the ssg, but... I would rather have something that is brain dead

It has been an adventure, I am just glad it was not the dead of winter.

Mart

[tjnlsn255]

I am glad that you and your house are ok......

Here in New Hampshire we use wood stoves a lot as our back up system.

The big thing now is wood pellets made from the saw dust and now the demand is so high for pellets that I think they are shredding trees to make pellets.....

The advantage of pellets is that they can be auto loaded into the stove.

I was thinking of using my wood stove to create steam and drive a steam turbine to drive a generator......

If i had a naturally running water supply I would have a micro-hydro setup for sure.....

It is amazing the things we come up with when the grid goes down and how much we currently depend on it.....

Good luck on your adventure.....

Todd

[ashtweth]

INDUCTION HEATERS .....they are efficient BTW

[theremart]

Power online...

Yes it is awesome to have power, now tomorrow the gas company shows up.

Will have to use the woodgas stove to do my bath tonight

But things are looking up.

[rickoff]

Reply to Lidmotor:

Rick,

Thanks for the description of your earlier life. I think that sometimes we look back at our leaner years and wonder if maybe they were happier times. When I was 21 I sailed an old beat up 29 ft. sailboat to Hawaii and back with a girl friend. We spent the winter there tied up to the breakwater at Ala Wai boat harbor in Honolulu. We were extremely poor (I had $600) but we both got jobs there and lived happily on that little boat until we sailed home the next summer. We used kerosene lanterns for light and stole ice out of the hotels for our little cooler. I carried the water out to the boat in the dingy. We had no car and got around by walking or using the bus. I learned from that experience just how little you need to get along quite nicely---and be happy.

Lidmotor

Hi Lidmotor,

Yes, keeping life simple really does have its rewards, and many less hassles. I've done quite a bit of sailing myself, and know exactly what you are talking about. And at my cottage in Downeast Maine, although it now has several modern conveniences, it is still equipped for living as in the old days when one wishes. Kerosene lanterns, victrola, outhouse, etc. I just love it there.

Rick

[Lidmotor]

Cottage living

Mart--- Glad that you are getting back to normal and after the dust settles, give us a final report on what worked and what didn't. It sounds like "simple" is the answer.

Rick--- My roots are in Ohio. When my Dad was growing up he helped build a cottage by the lake with my grandfather and greatuncle. They burried a tank in the ground and filled it with gasoline to run the place. Somehow they figured out a way to make to safe. I'll have to ask him more about it. He is 83 now and I don't know how much he remembers of it. I never got a chance to see the cottage but the family had many good times there when my dad was growing up.

[rickoff]

To Lidmotor:

It's hard to imagine that a gasoline tank, of any material, could safely be buried underground adjacent to a lake. It could be made safe for the owner to use, but guaranteeing the safety of the environment would be a lot tougher. Do you know if the tank was ever removed, or if it is still used?

Rick

[theremart]

Report..

Mart--- Glad that you are getting back to normal and after the dust settles, give us a final report on what worked and what didn't. It sounds like "simple" is the answer.

Rick--- My roots are in Ohio. When my Dad was growing up he helped build a cottage by the lake with my grandfather and greatuncle. They burried a tank in the ground and filled it with gasoline to run the place. Somehow they figured out a way to make to safe. I'll have to ask him more about it. He is 83 now and I don't know how much he remembers of it. I never got a chance to see the cottage but the family had many good times there when my dad was growing up.

What I found out is what I learned from watching a plumbing video on youtube. Not a good idea to have two different metals touching one another they oxidize. In my case it was a gas pipe touching the frame of my house over time the pipe oxidized weakened and left a quarter inch hole. I am guessing a the time I plugged in my circular saw the saw cause a spark to jump between the ground of the house to the pipe that is well grounded instant flame. ( this is my theory of what happened ).

The real fun started after I replaced the copper pipe. I went and got replacement pipe and put it in place then hired a contractor to come out and inspect my work of both rewiring and my copper pipe. The contractor then told me that copper pipe was not code, and that all of that pipe would need to be replaced. I at this time was growing very angry, I asked why was this sold to me if it was not code? The contractor said I was taken and should take it back to get my money back soooo..... I did. I tell them to go ahead and do the work.

Now.... I enter the place that I bought it, they asked me why I tell them I am told it is not code, they then proceed to tell me it is code ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Now I have two licensed contractors telling me two different stories, and the one is now tearing out my copper pipe that may not need to be removed. I then call the building oversight downtown, and they tell me this.... "Copper is code, but we don't like it". I then go for replacing all of the copper. I decided that if they don't like it there is a reason for that, but I was very angry that I was two two different stories by two different contractors who were both licensed. Ah the joys of dealing with government, and contractors. The bottom line is if you have a gas line that has been in place for a long time, it would be a good idea for you to take a spray bottle filled with water and detergent and simply spray down your copper gas line to check for leaks. This may save you the trouble I went thru.

The generator was a real winner in this case, the small 2 cycle generator lasted for 5 hours on 3 gallon of gas running two computers and my internet and charging a semi battery. I then took the charged semi battery and finished that day, and the next morning with the charge on that battery ( about 8 hours ) 13.55V down to 11.5V.

The fire department did offer me a hotel I could of stayed at during this time, but I thought that would just mean more driving away from my home. If it was colder, I think I would taken them up on their offer. This house is not where I want to stay long term, if it was I would be putting in another means of heat. I never would of thought I would loose both gas and electric at the same time.

Simple is a good thing. I think AA batteries being charged by solar cells keep my flash lights going. I think I would like to have an Windmill to charge my batteries when the sun does not shine. I am thinking I would like to play with woodgas on my 2cycle generator, but I am not sure that would be a good idea because of the oil a 2 cycle needs...


I have been thinking about Peter L. Idea of using insulation on one room. The one thing I am afraid of with such a setup is ventilation. Don't want to create a problem of not getting proper air circulation... But very good for survival.. I have thought of such for saving energy putting up a plastic wall and heating just the area that I am in up to 70 degrees, then letting the rest of the house stay at 62. Always thinking...

On the farm I lived on growing up we only heated our house with wood. We would fill the fireplace up at night and then be greeted by a cold room in the morning which we rushed to stir up the coals and get the fire going. I am not missing those days of cold mornings.

Cheers!

[Lidmotor]

Gas tank?? Not in my yard!!

It's hard to imagine that a gasoline tank, of any material, could safely be buried underground adjacent to a lake. It could me made safe for the owner to use, but guaranteeing the safety of the environment would be a lot tougher. Do you know if the tank was ever removed, or if it is still used?

Rick

Rick--
The next time that I talk to my Dad I'll ask him about that gas tank and the cottage location. Remember that this took place a long long time ago. The town was Ashtabula Ohio. One of my relatives was still getting around town with a pony and a small cart during this period.
Mart--
I had a gas line leak also and it was in a "code" black iron gas pipe. It happened outside in a flower bed where the gas line fed into the house. Water had just corroded the pipe right where it came up out of the ground. I fixed it myself with a new piece of the same kind of pipe. Glad that you are getting back to normal.

Lidmotor