The Great Global Warming Swindle

[mikehingle]

Thanks Peter, i saw this a while ago, now they are even going to tax you when your cow breaks wind!! Farts are apparently worth money
Pretty soon they will look for an excuse to tax you on spicy food as you will produce more methane

- - - - - - - - - -

We could hook up methane gas recovery units with digestors & separators mounted onto saddles worn on the cows backs, with spreaders that would gently & evenly throw the processed manure back out to the fields while the cows are grazing. The gases could be compressed & collected periodically at a central gas collection center located at the barn.

Like male humans who get circumcised on the 8th day after birth, we could super-glue catheters onto the anuses of calves & other livestock & even adopt laws requiring humans who eat too many beans to be forcefully catheterized.

Like the cameras mounted in cities to reduce crime, we could also have spectrographic gas analyzers strategically installed throughout cities to catch gas passers, & after a determined amount of infractions, we could require that the offenders get catheterized & wear gas processors. Of course, they could get paid for their productions, making frequent deposits at centrally located drop-off centers. This would go a long way to reducing green house gasses.

I wonder if this is patentable ???

[mikehingle]

Clouds

Clouds

YouTube - The Cloud Mystery 2/6

Hopefully, this won't influence many to give up
or to diminish their interest in supporting R&D of clean fuels,
and clean (green) environmental technologies.

Please watch all six 10 minute videos.

[Peter Lindemann]

Great Addition to the Thread!!

http://leaningstraightup.com/2007/03...swindle-video/

vzon17,

Thanks for the link. Its a great film, folks. Definitely watch this! Here is the direct link to the page that has the film titled Doomsday Called Off: http://leaningstraightup.com/2007/04...n-see-it-here/

Peter

[jibbguy]

"Cloud Mystery? Yeah...Like who paid for it.

Regarding the above video 1/6 of "Cloud Mysteries".. It was completely stilted, ridiculously in error, and the basic theory is built on totally erroneous claims.

> In segment 2/6 Paal Brekke says around 2:20 that the Sun's magnetic field has doubled in last 100 years????

Lol this is absurd. Totally wrong. If they have based their assumptions on garbage like this, no wonder their Paper could not get published.

> Also in 2/6 at around 9:00, claims of the Dead Sea drying up because of the climate change totally bogus. MAN CHANGED THE LEVEL of the Dead Sea over the last 2 or 3 millennia, by siphoning off water from the River Jordon (it's only source) for drinking and irrigation.

> Again with the 300 years ago "little ice age" and "sunny Greenland" crap of happy Vikings partying in a Florida-like garden spot.... Which is NOT PROVEN AT ALL be anything other than local weather change from the position of the Gulf Stream (it if that "green" time did exist at all). These claims are bogus, and very telling when you see them; because they are pseudo-science and even pseudo-history. There have been NO CHANGES IN OCEAN LEVEL for many thousands of years, nor has there been any melt-off of the Glaciers until recently.. The Alps glaciers, which have been well-known and documented for over 2000 years, are perfect proof of this... Not to mention archealogical sites of docks, breakwalls, and water steps proving ancient water levels. It has taken the Industrial Age, and THE HAND OF MAN to melt the glaciers.

AND THEY WILL SAY ANYTHING TO MIS-DIRECT YOU AWAY FROM THAT FACT.

> In 3/6 claims of "cosmic rays changing LOW clouds only" . The claim is extremely tenuous as to why, and of course they have no proof. They are just making assumptions regarding the increased aerosols MAYBE increasing low cloud cover... If you listen closely to their two American scientists who are supposedly backing them, they are full of if's and say nothing of consequence... They are not really backing their claims!

But whatever factor the "cosmic rays" are is TINY compared to the main factor for cloud formation: WATER VAPOR. Caused by the water being evaporated off of the oceans... ANYONE SEE A PROBLEM HERE?? If his theory was even half right, the increased low clouds would slow down evaporation, and thus form MUCH less cloud cover over-all. It doesn't add up; and his theory of clouds CAUSING the climate is wrong. Clouds are the chicken, not the egg.

> There is yet no proof at all that we are on the edge of a sub-arm of a Sagittarius spiral arm of the galaxy, or that we heat up when not in a cluster. But it is very convenient for them to claim it.

And If we are revolving, why isn't the other parts of the spiral revolving WITH US???

Lol they are expecting us to believe that the Sun is the only thing in the Galaxy moving!!

Go back and look at that again: Is that guy really an imbecile, or he trying to manipulate you??

DIDN'T ANYONE IN THE MOVIE PRODUCTION QUESTION THAT? If they did not, then this is NOT a genuine film, but deliberate misinformation.

It is so friggin' ridiculous as to be highly questionable as to Motive.

> 4/6 "icehouse/ hothouse conditions" could have been caused by a well over a dozen factors.... On one hand they said that the earlier Earth never had ice, then contradicted themselves by saying there were many cooler "icehouse" periods... They ignore the obvious explanation, that in the ancient "ice-less" periods the CO2 atmosphere levels were far greater than now.

> 5/6 temperature of the oceans... More total B-S. There is no way to know the depth of the old fossils and temperature varies immensely with even a few feet of depth...When we are talking a few degrees of change having very a accurate depth would be absolutely critical to having ANY meaningful data. Those mollusks they showed would thrive anywhere in a range of 200-300 feet of depth, yet in those 200-300 feet, there could be THIRTY DEGREES of temp difference!

> NO ENDING CREDITS at the end... Stating who really produced & paid for it.

But it is very likely that THE OIL COMPANIES DID. To fool us into believing ANY crap that keeps them from losing profits and ending their complete control over our entire society.

[jibbguy]

"Called Off"... THEY WISH lol

Regarding the next video "Called Off"... More garbage.

> End of segment #1... Bearded guy says: "We started to observe at the coldest point in the last 10,000 years".

WHAT TOTAL BS!! And how amazingly coincidental. Lol it is contradicting their own claims of "little ice age". His data to support this virtually is non-existent. Why is he the only one getting these results from core data (which has been looked at by literally hundreds of scientists)?

> In segment#2: Sophistry on the "hockey stick"... They claim that "few believe it".. More total B-S.... "Few" published the Paper behind it !! And how many peeps put their name on Papers is in no way indicative of the support they get. That statement was utterly meaningless and designed to deceive. Whether these scientists are right or not, there are literally several thousand who have put in writing that they believe it. WHY THIS DELIBERATE DECEPTION?

? In #3 Christie discusses surface temp verses lower atmosphere temp data and says there is no global warming, AGAIN ignoring the 100% EMPIRICAL data of the very dramatic and unquestionable glacier melts and shrinking of the polar ice cap (as well as the vast melting of the permafrosted areas in Alaska, Siberia, and elsewhere).

To assume that the increased heat around cities and built-up areas do not affect the entire climate (as Christie does), is idiotically WRONG, or completely disingenious... ALL temps added into the system have effect; and there is no doubt that the built-over areas are growing exponentially, and have grown exponentially over the last 200 years. So their claims that none of it is "man-made" are absurd to begin with.

> Maldives: The "Message of the tree" and other claims here are totally bogus... Lol he is missing the entire point, which is that these CORAL islands are getting inundated slowly as water level rises. He can claim whatever he likes, but the inhabitants of low-slung atolls and islands remember and know. Just like inhabitants of Pacific islands were forced from their homes. To deny this is absolutely silly.

> In #4 that guy int he Maldives keeps calling it "ROCK".... total BS it is CORAL. And the data over the 1,200 year old fossil... Lol hasn't he ever heard of Typhoons?? Large waves, surges (that would deposit the fossil there)?? This Maldives data is utterly foolish.

30 years ago the sea level was 20- 30 CM's higher than today?? More TOTAL BS... This is not true globally at all. Tide line evidence is worthless as it has weather - specifically WAVE conditions - to account for ALL of it. The waves may have been lower now on average then 30 years ago: Perhaps a local difference, caused by climate change. What can change significantly, and has been seen to change are TRADE WINDS. These determine the wave action in a given area... If that part of the island is now mainly a Lee Shore, of course wave action is much less.

#5 Computer models. Christie quoted a JOKE a scientist made and tried to make it sound like these peeps are completely and stupidly tied to their models.... But the FACT is, that it is the EMPIRICAL data of the glaciers and permafrost melting that continually sinks their claims of "no change"... They can take all the puter models they can grasp and shove them.

Then he goes on to say it is not a "disastrous" thing?? What an a-hole. I personally WOULD NOT TRUST my grandchildren's prosperity and very lives on this guy's claims; and i would strongly recommend that you out there do not either.

> AGAIN as in the above film about clouds, we do not get to see the ending credits, and who funded the making of this film.

And this site that hosts these films, is run by a neo-con.... Look at his "Blog-Role"... THIS GUY WAS A BUSH SUPPORTER.

Enough said.

[Peter Lindemann]

Please Start Your Own Thread

Dear Jibbguy,

Early on in this thread, your position in support of Human Caused Global Warming was well established. In reference to this, you were also asked to post references to Science based facts and to tone down both your emotions and your penchant for expressing disdain for others who do not share your position.

The PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD is for exploring and collecting references to information that support the premise that Climate Change is for the most part, a Natural Cycle, and that CO2 and human activity are not playing a significant role. We would like to exercise our right to collect these references without the thread being constantly punctuated by your posts, which amount to nothing more than rude, debunking. I am asking you to PLEASE post positive, scientific references and keep your opinions of others who do not share your view to yourself.

Honestly, I would prefer you start your own thread on Human Caused Global Warming where you can post all of the documents that support that position and your belief in it. Then, others who share your point of view can chat and offer support. I would be glad to stay out of that thread so your position can be stated clearly and without distraction.

We are all adults here, and deserve respect, regardless of our position on any specific topic. No one is welcome to insult us, or insinuate our lack of intelligence. All Climate Change links in this thread are posted for people's thoughtful CONSIDERATION and do not need to be characterize by you as "garbage", "BS", "idiotically wrong", "utterly foolish", "absolutely silly" or the like. These statements are nothing more than an expression of your emotion and your opinion, and they are rude and disrespectful.

Please honor my request that you stop posting messages that are like the last two, here.

Peter

[mikehingle]

Peter !
Thanks for asking to keep these discussions civil.

Jibbguy !
I share your frustration about big oil & cohorts attempting to keep the masses confused,
& I wish there was a big tax on polluting technologies that would only fund clean technologies.
But I refuse to be pulled down to their level of dirty fighting
with unnecessary abusive & offensive language that could only work for big oil's fighting side,
by scaring away & repelling potential intelligent allies who could help you with your fight.
Leave the room & count to 10, then come back in with cool headed comments
that are just as powerful as the vulgar ones you offer.
Nontheless, thanks for your constructive criticism on the documentaries.

Cheers !
Mike Hingle

[jibbguy]

No i will not.

Shocked lol?

I am expressing my disdain and utter disgust at the videos' attempts at lies and manipulation.... Not at anyone here. The distinction is clear, and it is offensive and utterly false to suggest i am attacking anyone who posted them (otherwise please quote the section in which i have done so!).... It is the content linked here, just like the original thread topic, that deserved my criticism. And got it.

People can hold what ever beliefs make them happy and i don't care (i do not feel that peeps disagreeing me is a direct challenge to my ego), but if they link something that i believe is obviously false, then i will comment as long as i can make important points on the subject.

And i did make comprehensive and coherent points against these videos; and THAT is entire the point of the matter. Refute them if you can.

This is not a replication thread; it is over a completely controversial subject and therefore is certainly subject to debate. If you don't like being contradicted by the likes of me, then perhaps you shouldn't start debate threads like this in the future.

Otherwise, it is like going to a paint ball combat range, and complaining that people are shooting at you

If someone posts another video that i also find to be phony i will post on that too... Even if it happened to support my opinion (which is a clear possibility as neither side is pure and innocent here)... Which as i stated above several times is, that BOTH sides are deliberately provoking and politicizing this debate in order to create more division and polarization.

[Peter Lindemann]

Refusal?

Jibbguy,

Your refusal to voluntarily abide by my request to be polite and respectful regarding your posts in this thread is not acceptable. Personally, I don't care what you believe. You are not welcome to rant and harass the readers of this thread any longer.

If you do not comply with my request to state your points politely, and back up your pronouncements with DATA instead of opinion and ridicule, I will ask an Administrator to review your posts.

Stop bullying us, STEVE. You are not the only one who cares about the children!

Peter

[sucahyo]

The PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD is for exploring and collecting references to information that support the premise that Climate Change is for the most part, a Natural Cycle, and that CO2 and human activity are not playing a significant role.

Do human device count? We know that human can made a device that can change weather intentionally. Maybe there are device that can change climate unintentionally?

[mikehingle]

Wanted !

- - - - - - - - - -

We could hook up methane gas recovery units with digestors & separators mounted onto saddles worn on the cows backs, with spreaders that would gently & evenly throw the processed manure back out to the fields while the cows are grazing. The gases could be compressed & collected periodically at a central gas collection center located at the barn.

Like male humans who get circumcised on the 8th day after birth, we could super-glue catheters onto the anuses of calves & other livestock & even adopt laws requiring humans who eat too many beans to be forcefully catheterized.

Like the cameras mounted in cities to reduce crime, we could also have spectrographic gas analyzers strategically installed throughout cities to catch gas passers, & after a determined amount of infractions, we could require that the offenders get catheterized & wear gas processors. Of course, they could get paid for their productions, making frequent deposits at centrally located drop-off centers. This would go a long way to reducing green house gasses.

I wonder if this is patentable ???

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Maybe I can get a job as an Attorney helping to draft language for Cap & Trade & TARP legislation ???
People need convincing !

Mike Hingle

[Tecstatic]

More research from Henrik Svensmarks cloud research

I saw another film sometime ago. And in my view it also does a good job to explore the scientific angle of global warming contrary to the common political angle.

The film showed the research of the Danish scientist Henrik Svensmark on cloud formation.
Unfortunately I have no link to the film.

Since then Svensmark and his team has continued the research:

Climate Research News » New Paper: Cosmic Ray Decreases Affect Atmospheric Aerosols and Clouds

Cosmic ray decreases affect atmospheric aerosols and clouds

more on the subject

Decreases in Cosmic Rays Affect Atmospheric Aerosols and Clouds « Dprogram.net

May I add I only read a small part of this thread (24/7 limitation), so if my links are redundant, please excuse me.

---------------------

I have the opinion, that if you follow the money flow, you are more likely to discover motives driving policy.

IMHO I see a link between medieval church earning lots of money on the fear to burn in the fires of hell, and the CO2 policy today.

Lots of money are going to change hands to "avoid" the "global warming".

Same motive, equally based on facts.

As a pilot for many years, I have followed the weather, and if there is something I'm quite sure of, then it is the fact that weather models and even more climate models are incomplete. Lots of research is needed before we can even make precise 14 days weather prognoses, not even talking climate models.

But what about HAARP or related technologies.
We are about passing peak oil, and there is lots of oil in the arctic. Wouldn't it be quite convenient to get access to all that oil without a lot of ice problems, and at the same time earn fortunes while practicing the new age version of the fire of hell ?

Just my thoughts...

Eric

[Tecstatic]

Link to Svensmark film

The link was right under my nose

YouTube - henrik svensmark on global warming

Henrik Svensmark on Global Warming part 1-5

This film is informing on the very interesting research and experiments of Svensmark and his team.

The relation between cosmic rays, the suns magnetic field, cloud formation and climate is explained.

Some quotes from the beginning of the film:

"The fact is, that clouds and water vapors have the biggest green house effect on the earth climate"

"In times when everybody is talking of CO2, clouds are a really important factor of climate change."

"In 2005 we actually found experimental evidence, that the sun and the galaxy is determining climate here on earth, but for some reason no scientific journal wanted to publish this, it was a big disappointment for me and my team."

"The bottom line seems to be, that instead of thinking of clouds as something being a result of the climate, it actually is sort of upside down, it is that the climate is a result of changes in the clouds."

Eric

[sucahyo]

Some quotes from the beginning of the film:

"The fact is, that clouds and water vapors have the biggest green house effect on the earth climate"

"In times when everybody is talking of CO2, clouds are a really important factor of climate change."

Interesting , do this means that cloud buster device do help the earth stay cool ?

[Tecstatic]

If you bust the low clouds, mere energy reaches the surface, so the climate gets warmer.

See end of part 2 for an explanation.

Eric