The Great Global Warming Swindle

[RedRightHand]

Aaron,

I don't think you fully understand the concept of thermals, please read some more material and understand this everyday unseen force in modern life.
As for your observations, they are yours, I am not debating what you saw.

Any area where the natural forest has been removed, will generally create a thermal. This rising air will take with it sea level moisture and push it all the way up to 60,000ft sometimes. So you need to understand that the airspace above the city does in fact have different weather to the forested areas. These thermals can be very small (football field vs corn field) or very large (city vs surrounding agricultural land). If the area is not forest or long grass it's creating a thermal in the day. The 'air border' you speak of is directly proportional to the size of the thermal. So a large city could indeed have a 10 mile radius of thermal activity surrounding the city, whereas a football field has an 'air border' of a matter of a few meters.

Also watch out for the common error of trying to gauge distance with high altitude clouds, you will be surprised by how far off you are! Try using a local radar internet service, they are generally free and you can know exactly what is going on up there relative to the ground. Don't be fooled by ground weather, vs weather at different altitudes - they vary an awful lot!

Thermals are a very interesting unseen force that most people never see, it takes training and a lot of practice to understand how they work, especially for local conditions. As any hang gliding pilot, or baby bird will attest too.

Red

P.S. So contrails/chemtrails/clouds will actually be larger over a city on average because of the excess moisture in the air. These prime contrail/chemtrail expansion conditions will cease abruptly, almost like a wall, when the plane pushes through this 'air border' or the wall of the thermal, most folks call it turbulence.
I have rode on these thermals using a hang-glider many times, when you hit that wall you go from 20 m/s UP to 10 m/s DOWN, you go from sea level temperature to altitude temperature (drop of sometimes 10 Deg C). This all happens in about one second or 2-5 meters of distance.

Oh, and the wind DOES obey the 'air border' it joins the party and goes up too - this is by no means a 'stretch'.
Its the everyday and everywhere huge 20km long vortex that hardly nobody sees! Learn to see the evidence, in it's effects.

[Aaron]

pics - continuing trails?

Since this is such a common thing, why don't you find me some
pictures of contrails all in parallel ending abruptly at city limits.
And, it would be preferable to have pics that are at least 15+ years old.

Being such a black and white thing where the trails in hot air would suddenly
end when they hit cold air, I would imagine there would be loads of
archives showing this.

Plus, with this effect being so prominent, it doesn't seem possible according
to you that a trail would be able to extend past the city and keep going,
which they of course do all the time.

[RedRightHand]

Since this is such a common thing, why don't you find me some
pictures of contrails all in parallel ending abruptly at city limits.
And, it would be preferable to have pics that are at least 15+ years old.

Being such a black and white thing where the trails in hot air would suddenly
end when they hit cold air, I would imagine there would be loads of
archives showing this.

Plus, with this effect being so prominent, it doesn't seem possible according
to you that a trail would be able to extend past the city and keep going,
which they of course do all the time.

Aaron,

Once again these are your observations, I can not possible comment with out all the information.

You really need to make a proper assessment of the conditions at that time, for example:

Take multiple photos or video of the incident. Make sure you show as many hours as possible including after the incident.
Write down your GPS location and times, size of camera lens.
Gather all the local weather conditions for that day on the ground.
Gather the local radar loop animation for that day.
Gather all the different altitude weather reports.
Get as much airline traffic data as you can.

With all this information you can clearly rule out thermal activity as the cause of the incident you witnessed, and you can accurately tell how much pollution was ejected from these planes.

Without this, I am helpless to form an accurate opinion.

Check out:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ErNw9WmaOF...+Contrails.JPG
See in this image that the open fields create thermals, when the plane goes over the forests and mountains in the background the trails stop.
There are lots more, just look hard enough and you will find an old picture. I suspect a photo from a city would require a wide angle lens and good vantage point, making the pictures rarer.

Your last sentence only proves to me you do not fully understand the forces at work here. When you discover the difference between weather on the ground and weather at altitude you will find your answer. No spoon feeding!

Please take the time to fully understand thermals, and how they work, its a fascinating subject to understand and visualize if you like Vortexes!


Red

[Aaron]

speculation on heat island effect

Red,

For the third time, you're saying a trail would be thicker in the hot zone
and then would disappear in the cold zone but you don't address that.

That pic you show has absolutely no resemblance to the reality that I
am telling you about. Those trails you show dwindle down to fine points.
That is NOT from a vanishing point where the further away the narrower
it seems. Those trails in your pic are simply becoming finer and finer and
it is common sense that is what that pic shows.

In the pics is a common occurrence for real contrails - NOTHING like
the chemtrails.

What I describe as many people have seen is ABRUPT cut offs of the trails
with the exact same thickness at the end as they are at any other point
(before they start to spread out).

Sorry, what I am talking about is common sense in terms of them not
being normal contrails and there is no special interaction with local
weather changes based on the heat island effect so please don't try to
push that on something you have never witnessed, apparently.

Trying to put it off as your thermal rising event at the edge of town
absolutely IS a STRETCH and and your analysis is completely wrong.
Claiming that a trail going from a hot area to a cold area would simply
disappear ABRUPTLY is downright ridiculous.

When there are a half a dozen or more trails equidistantly spaced and
they are all ABRUPTLY cutting off at the exact same point where the
ends are just as thick as the rest of the trail and they just stay just
like that for a while before they start spreading out and joining the
trails next to them to make complete coverage, there is NO wind stirring
up the ends of the trails as your claim would cause. On NASA's own
page that I quoted, that hot air from the city rising causing cold air to
be pulled in causing WIND.

The ENTIRE trail slowly drifts together as one with no difference in
movement at the very ends where NASA says there is going to be wind
because of the vacuum that pulls in the cold.

Those abrupt cut offs are in a location of very OBVIOUS low-wind
zones as the ends dissipate out laterally at the same rate as the
rest of the trail that is over the middle of the city. If there was wind
being pulled in, you would see evidence of the trail at the end
there being different from the trail over the city and there are absolutely
no differences.

Again, your entire argument is 100% speculation based on something
you have never seen.

There is nothing in that NASA article that describes the characteristics
of these chemtrails and how they ABRUPTLY cut off. Nice try to overlay
your speculation of that known event onto the abruptly cut off
chem trails but they follow none of the descriptions or patterns.

You even claim that I should look at radar imagery. You're kidding I
hope! I have on countless occasions looked at the sky and looked at the
satellite images on multiple sites from NOAA to you name it and coordinating
the time of the events, those satellite images show 100% clear skies
usually when there is COMPLETE COVERAGE of the entire sky from the
chemtrails. Many times I have seen completely FAKE radar images and
this is not disputable. Clear skies while I can't see a patch of blue
because a dozen chemtrails spread wide and obscured 100% of the
entire blue sky.

Now, it is pretty funny how when there are real clouds in the sky the
radar images happen to show what looks like reality but when the kc135
tankers from fairchild AFB (one of the main tanker bases) do their aerosol
operations, the radar images NEVER match. Fairchild is a 25 minute
drive from here and we see these blue sky covering operations very
often.

I have seen on COUNTLESS occasions 100% blue sky being obscured
100% to gray wispy clouds 100% from the chemtrails when no other
real cloud was in the sky. Trails get zipped, widen out and make contact
with the other trails and slowly the light wind will brush them about
wispy like and cover 100% of the visible sky from horizon to horizon.

This is a common occurrence here in Spokane.

[RedRightHand]

Aaron,

I don't want to get into a debate about chemtrails.

My post #717 was meant as a correction to your wild statement:
"The weather fronts do not recognize county or city borders! lol"
I think I explained this fully in previous posts, I invite you to further research the thermal effect as it is fascinating stuff.
I was looking for an admission of a mistake on your behalf, and maybe even a thank you. I see this isn't going to happen, so I will leave it there.

A chemtrail seekers only bible should be meteorology 101, just as a free energy researchers only bible should be advanced electronics 101.
How can you break the rules, if you don't know what they are?
How can something be Unidentified phenomena, if you haven't looked for the boring answers first.

Red,

For the third time, you're saying a trail would be thicker in the hot zone
and then would disappear in the cold zone but you don't address that.
Hot and Cold are not the best words to use, try Moist and Dry, these are more accurate. I think I addressed this well, maybe you should clarify what part you do not understand?

That pic you show has absolutely no resemblance to the reality that I
am telling you about. Those trails you show dwindle down to fine points.
That is NOT from a vanishing point where the further away the narrower
it seems. Those trails in your pic are simply becoming finer and finer and
it is common sense that is what that pic shows.

In the pics is a common occurrence for real contrails - NOTHING like
the chemtrails.

Maybe posting a picture will help clarify what you are trying to describe?

What I describe as many people have seen is ABRUPT cut offs of the trails
with the exact same thickness at the end as they are at any other point
(before they start to spread out).

Sorry, what I am talking about is common sense in terms of them not
being normal contrails and there is no special interaction with local
weather changes based on the heat island effect so please don't try to
push that on something you have never witnessed, apparently.

Trying to put it off as your thermal rising event at the edge of town
absolutely IS a STRETCH and and your analysis is completely wrong.
Claiming that a trail going from a hot area to a cold area would simply
disappear ABRUPTLY is downright ridiculous.

Once again your description does match perfectly, with a plane hitting the wall of a thermal. What you saw could be anything, I am only saying your description fits the profile well. I can't be sure though, without weather data for that location and day.
I invite you to read and UNDERSTAND the basics of thermals, as this information will show you that in this circumstance a trail WILL end abruptly. You have proclaimed this is not possible and ridiculous, but I do insist it is possible! Understanding air currents is chemtrail research 101.

When there are a half a dozen or more trails equidistantly spaced and
they are all ABRUPTLY cutting off at the exact same point where the
ends are just as thick as the rest of the trail and they just stay just
like that for a while before they start spreading out and joining the
trails next to them to make complete coverage, there is NO wind stirring
up the ends of the trails as your claim would cause. On NASA's own
page that I quoted, that hot air from the city rising causing cold air to
be pulled in causing WIND.

Please read about Thermals, Air enters the vortex from the bottom. What you described here is the formation of contrail cirrus clouds.

The ENTIRE trail slowly drifts together as one with no difference in
movement at the very ends where NASA says there is going to be wind
because of the vacuum that pulls in the cold.

This sentence just bothers me in so many ways; Wind is moving vertical, air enters system at sea level, thermals can be slow and fast moving, what vacuum? Air is 'pulled' in? It's pressure differentials mate, there is no such force as suction.

Those abrupt cut offs are in a location of very OBVIOUS low-wind
zones as the ends dissipate out laterally at the same rate as the
rest of the trail that is over the middle of the city. If there was wind
being pulled in, you would see evidence of the trail at the end
there being different from the trail over the city and there are absolutely
no differences.

Again you don't understand the basic principals of thermals; it's a body of air rising, the outside air is moving the same speed as the inside air. As it ascends it slows down as the pressure difference decreases.

Again, your entire argument is 100% speculation based on something
you have never seen.

My argument is based on your description, I have stated that I have personal experience with thermals and their 'walls'. I have also told you what information you would need to prove/disprove this, the ball really is in your court.

There is nothing in that NASA article that describes the characteristics
of these chemtrails and how they ABRUPTLY cut off. Nice try to overlay
your speculation of that known event onto the abruptly cut off
chem trails but they follow none of the descriptions or patterns.
See above

You even claim that I should look at radar imagery. You're kidding I
hope! I have on countless occasions looked at the sky and looked at the
satellite images on multiple sites from NOAA to you name it and coordinating
the time of the events, those satellite images show 100% clear skies
usually when there is COMPLETE COVERAGE of the entire sky from the
chemtrails. Many times I have seen completely FAKE radar images and
this is not disputable. Clear skies while I can't see a patch of blue
because a dozen chemtrails spread wide and obscured 100% of the
entire blue sky.

Well that's unfortunate, I live in a country with the best weather tracking in the world, maps are 5 minutes old and always show everything - all free. Sucks to be American! You see if you trust your radar images (which I can) you can easily tell if they are spraying anything because it will show up. Contrail Cirrus Clouds, liked you described, will NOT show up on radar they are far too thin, so your evidence of clear radar screens also seems to support my case. Or of course it's all a big government conspiracy with fake radar images....

Now, it is pretty funny how when there are real clouds in the sky the
radar images happen to show what looks like reality but when the kc135
tankers from fairchild AFB (one of the main tanker bases) do their aerosol
operations, the radar images NEVER match. Fairchild is a 25 minute
drive from here and we see these blue sky covering operations very
often.

Sounds like you should move house...

I have seen on COUNTLESS occasions 100% blue sky being obscured
100% to gray wispy clouds 100% from the chemtrails when no other
real cloud was in the sky. Trails get zipped, widen out and make contact
with the other trails and slowly the light wind will brush them about
wispy like and cover 100% of the visible sky from horizon to horizon.

This is a common occurrence here in Spokane.

I believe in Chem Trails! But I think we need to first learn about meteorology and air currents. We must fully understand the systems at play here, before we can be certain that what we are seeing are chemtrails. This way we will be able to rule out other possibilities and accurately describe what we see.

Otherwise we are just pointing at the sky crying conspiracy.


Red

[RedRightHand]

Hi Folks,

Here is a new article, this time from the UK's MAIL-Online news service, questioning "Global Warming" in the face of the UK's obvious cooling trend.

Global warming has halted: That's what happened to 'warmest year on record' | Mail Online

This article is very important because it supports all of the major points presented in this thread. Here is just one example:

Earlier this year, a paper by Michael Mann - for years a leading light in the IPCC, and the author of the infamous 'hockey stick graph' showing flat temperatures for 2,000 years until the recent dizzying increase - made an extraordinary admission: that, as his critics had always claimed, there had indeed been a ' medieval warm period' around 1000 AD, when the world may well have been hotter than it is now. Mind you, there was no significant rise in ocean levels during this event, and food production increased dramatically.

Peter

Dear Peter,

This article worries me a little.
The title is: "What happened to the 'warmest year on record': The truth is global warming has halted" but the only evidence it uses to support this claim is our good friend, Dr Phil Jones, who is once again misquoted. See post #688

David Rose throws around a lot of other numbers, but I don't see any references, so very hard to verify his claims. Just sounds like a cold winging pom. The only truth there was; America has stopped warming for 15 years - about the same amount of time Aaron says they have been spraying chemtrails. Something to think about?

Go way way back and find the first models of global warming made in the 60s, they all predict the first country to show major change would be UK, and it would be a huge freeze! Because of the ocean currents slowing down and not bringing equatorial heat to the very temperate UK.
The UK was the most obvious country that relies on a very delicate natural system for it's survival and warmth - this was obvious even in the 60s.

Sorry Peter, this guy keeps coming back to the worldwide 'flat line' for 15 years of warming, but he is using Dr Phil Jones as evidence and we all know this statement was only referring to the USA or 8% of the earths landmass.

They talk about 'the travesty that scientists cannot explain this 'flate-line' of global warming' (IN AMERICA). I think Aaron has your answer - CHEMTRAILS.

It is a very sound argument. Keeping USA cool would mean a increase in overall energy spending, therefore perfect CIA BUSH OIL SCAM.
Obvious when you think about it.

Red

[Aaron]

cooling before chemtrails

The only truth there was; America has stopped warming for 15 years - about the same amount of time Aaron says they have been spraying chemtrails. Something to think about?

Actually, I said the chemtrails have been sprayed for about 10 years,
since about 1999. When I mentioned pics at least 15 years old, that is
to go back enough before the trails were sprayed when the weather
here was already cooling. And the US is the largest polluter unless China
passed us up, yet the temps are cooling - with all the co2 emissions here,
why isn't the US warming up?

The US has been cooling for about 5-6 year BEFORE the chemtrail
operations.

[Peter Lindemann]

Not A Thread About Chemtrails

Red,

Stop with your debate about Chemtrails. Start your own thread if you want to discuss Chemtrails. You and your alter-ego OZY have been warned about the purpose of this thread. Your repeated unwillingness to voluntarily abide by a respectful code of conduct is noted and thoroughly unappreciated.

Your "rebuttal" to my post of the article from the Mail-Online article has NO DATA in it. It consists entirely of your own interpretation based on your preconceived beliefs. The article's point of view is based on the "Met Office's Data" for both the UK and the rest of the globe.

Push your "Pro-Global Warming Agenda" in your own thread. Anymore non-compliance on your part will not be tolerated.

Peter

[Aaron]

border phenomena

My post #717 was meant as a correction to your wild statement:
"The weather fronts do not recognize county or city borders! lol"
I think I explained this fully in previous posts, I invite you to further research the thermal effect as it is fascinating stuff.
I was looking for an admission of a mistake on your behalf, and maybe even a thank you. I see this isn't going to happen, so I will leave it there.

I have no doubt that weather can be influenced by warm air rising
from a concrete jungle as it is actually common sense with or without
the "border" recognition being taken into account. So I can say you are
conditionally right about weather recognizing borders. It may happen
sometimes in some places but isn't some persistent rule "law" that
is unchangeable.

10 miles outside of town is quite a difference from calling that the
border as 10 miles is twice as long as the entire city diameter
unless you include the valley east of here. Considering this as the
weather recognizing the border here I think is laughable. I'm talking about
out past Fairchild AFB, which is about 5 miles west.

Now maybe in LA, Phoenix, or DFW or other larger cities or metroplexes
I would imagine the heat rising would be more pronounced and possibly
show a WINDY circumference, which is what that NASA article says
happens when the cold air is pulled to it and meets the warm air rising.
So I'm not doubting that this "border recognition" can be pronounced
there but trying to explain away the abrupt cut off of the trails
here just doesn't cut it and is a stretch.

You fail to acknowledge the fact that the end of the trails where they
are deliberately turned off are NOT being disturbed at the tips where
your hypothetical border recognition by the weather is happening as
NASA says there would be wind.

This is a direct contradiction to what
is supposed to happen. When the trails are sprayed, it is usually when
the wind speed at those altitudes is fairly slow as the trails very slowly
drift and takes a bit for them to spread out and connect to the trails
next to them. It can actually take up to a couple hours for the trail to
be whisped about so that it isn't a coherent trail anymore. This is what
usually happens when the tankers are on their aerosol operations and
doesn't come close to matching what is claimed to happen.

I think you're right that study of meteorology is a good idea. However,
common sense is common sense and it does NOT take a background
in meteorology to recognize something that is so blatantly unnatural.

I have seen plenty of times real contrails that diminish as your pic shows
but those altitudes are WAY higher than the height they are spraying
these trails. At those altitudes, the planes look like pin heads. When they
spray the trails, the entire plane can be recognized as kc135's. Sometimes
it seems some commercial airliners are spraying trails but for the most
part, it is the kc135's (tanker base right here by Spokane) that lay these
trails.

For free energy, it isn't advanced electronics that is needed, it is
completely throwing out the garbage in the text books and learning a
completely different model. Both the beginning and advanced electronics
are based on bogus electron current models and the academic world
doesn't even know what energy and potential really is.

And actually, conventional meteorology doesn't even know how the
weather works as it doesn't even take into account the subtle
energetics of weather systems. That is an entirely different subject that
virtually every meteorologist is out of their league if they want to discuss
that. Conventional meteorology is a very superficial perspective of weather.

You say: "We must fully understand the systems at play here, before we
can be certain that what we are seeing are chemtrails."

Well, we must fully understand the systems at the more subtle levels
before we can be certain that we are analyzing natural weather
accurately as well.

Those subtle systems are in the area of unconscious incompetence
of the meteorological world - basically, they don't know what they don't
know and just like free energy, there are major chunks of reality missing
from their models but that is a completely different conversation and only
a few people in the world are qualified in this area and that most certainly
does NOT include anyone that has only studied conventional meteorology.
That is a different subject not for this board.

[Aaron]

chemtrail discussion

Here is a chemtrail thread to discuss chemtrails:
http://www.energeticforum.com/genera...roduction.html

[ashtweth]

Well that's cool pun intended Its still raining here for 2 weeks and its more and more rain forecast and its COOLER. Yes cooler,this is the Aussie sun guys. Feels like i am in the twilight zone

Ash

[Karl]

Hey all
I am sure some of you may have seen the Max Keiser's "Crash JP Morgon by silver" campaign

Well I have an cunning plan, lets contact Keiser & get him to start a new one

"Crash Britons freezing, Buy Co2"

We can all buy petrol & just leave our cars running, get your lawns concreted over folks & chop down all your trees, cut down all shrubs & burn the feckers, go mad with weed killer, increase your carbon footprint!

We can defeat this freezing! buy Co2

[Karl]

The global warming scare was fun while it lasted, but the joke's over, says Christopher Booker.
The telegraph
Cancun climate conference: the warmists' last Mexican wave - Telegraph




An Italian theoretical physicist, Dr. Gianluigi Zangari, of the prestigious Research Division of the National Institute of Nuclear Physics at Frascati National Laboratories (LNF) of the National Institute of Nuclear Physics (INFN) in Italy, has come up with some startling scientific findings. Dr. Zangari has specialized in global climate research and analysis. He has found that the massive amount of oil in the Gulf of Mexico, from the BP Oil Disaster, has caused a disruption of the Loop Current in the Gulf. And further, that this has resulted in a dramatic weakening in the vorticity of the Gulf Stream and North Atlantic Current, and a reduction in North Atlantic water temperatures of 10C.

pdf of Zangari's report for the Institute of Atmospheric Sciences & Climate

http://www.rense.com/general91/OilSpill-CNR%202.pdf

[RedRightHand]

An Italian theoretical physicist, Dr. Gianluigi Zangari, of the prestigious Research Division of the National Institute of Nuclear Physics at Frascati National Laboratories (LNF) of the National Institute of Nuclear Physics (INFN) in Italy, has come up with some startling scientific findings. Dr. Zangari has specialized in global climate research and analysis. He has found that the massive amount of oil in the Gulf of Mexico, from the BP Oil Disaster, has caused a disruption of the Loop Current in the Gulf. And further, that this has resulted in a dramatic weakening in the vorticity of the Gulf Stream and North Atlantic Current, and a reduction in North Atlantic water temperatures of 10C.

pdf of Zangari's report for the Institute of Atmospheric Sciences & Climate

http://www.rense.com/general91/OilSpill-CNR%202.pdf

Karl,
Thank You! I have been waiting for this research!

This article is describing Anthropological Climate Change, as in, humans have affected not only the local weather but the whole climate with their actions. This should be a huge wake up call!
Europe is and will continue to freeze, the rest of the world ???
The stopping of this vital ocean current was labeled the 'End of Days Scenario' by climate scientists only a few years ago.
This will change the whole world climate for a few years.

Thanks BP / HALIBURTON / EPA !
Corporations killing you everyday in every way!
They also get to sell more Oil to heat the European houses.
Free Energy Save Us!

Red

P.S. If this post was out of line Aaron, I apologize, Please delete it.

[Karl]

Karl,
Thank You! I have been waiting for this research!

This article is describing Anthropological Climate Change, as in, humans have affected not only the local weather but the whole climate with their actions. This should be a huge wake up call!
Europe is and will continue to freeze, the rest of the world ???
The stopping of this vital ocean current was labeled the 'End of Days Scenario' by climate scientists only a few years ago.
This will change the whole world climate for a few years.

Thanks BP / HALIBURTON / EPA !
Corporations killing you everyday in every way!
They also get to sell more Oil to heat the European houses.
Free Energy Save Us!

Red

P.S. If this post was out of line Aaron, I apologize, Please delete it.

I agree that there is a chance BP are possibly responsible, so why is there not a huge investigation into this & BP, drop all this its humanity's fault co2 nonsense & investigate with real science the potential culprit that may be guilty for endangering the planet.
The only problem I have with Zangari's theory is that the satellite images of the latest U.K cold snap show the west coast is the warmest & the cold seems to be actually coming in from the west which throws the whole Gulf stream theory out the window.
The point is the whole Global warming science (if you can call it that) should be open for debate as any one with the IQ of a glass of water can see it's flawed at the fundamental level