Gray Tube Replication

[Beshires1]

Has any one tried colliding two High Voltage potentials in a Grey Tube? http://www.tb3.com/tesla/ratcb2006/images/TB_1485.jpg
Wiring two (identical) ignition coils as shown here will give you two opposite high voltage potentials, that are attracted to each other.
http://www.rmcybernetics.com/images/..._diagram_3.jpg
Maybe place a neutral grid between them to intensify the radiant event?
I hooked up two of my coils together, But wired them + to + and - to- and arranged them 120 degrees two high voltage electrodes and one low voltage electrode. When I fired it up It pops loud like a capacitor discharge. (Note: my ignition coils were not identical) The high voltage spark, appeared to jump to each other and the low voltage electrode spark jumped toward the high voltage potentials and popped loudly, This is the first time I have ever seen the spark coming from the low voltage source (12V Battery) electrode. This was not done inside a Tube set-up. Also it could be that one coils output was higher than the other, and first jumped to the low voltage electrode then from the low voltage electrode to the other high voltage electrode. The sparking seemed to circulate between the three in a circular type pattern.

[Electrotek]

This is great!
Keep it up!

[nat1971a]

Info on carbon that Tesla was using in his lamps....thought this might be relevant to grays tube design...

"Experiments with Alternate Currents of High Potential and High Frequency" by Nikola Tesla


In the course of these experiments a great many trials were made with all kinds of carbon buttons. Electrodes made of ordinary carbon buttons were decidedly more durable when the buttons were obtained by the application of enormous pressure. Electrodes prepared by depositing carbon in well known ways did not show up well; they blackened the globe very quickly. From many experiences I conclude that lamp filaments obtained in this manner can be advantageously used only with low potentials and low frequency currents. Some kinds of carbon withstand so well that, in order to bring them to the point of fusion, it is necessary to employ very small buttons. In this case the observation is rendered very difficult on account of the intense heat produced. Nevertheless there can be no doubt that all kinds of carbon are fused under the molecular bombardment, but the liquid state must be one of great instability. Of all the bodies tried there were two which withstood best—diamond and carborundum. These two showed up about equally, but the latter was preferable, for many reasons. As it is more than likely that this body is not yet generally known, I will venture to call your attention to it.

It has been recently produced by Mr. E. G. Acheson, of Monongahela City, Pa., U. S. A. It is intended to replace ordinary diamond powder for polishing precious stones, etc., and I have been informed that it accomplishes this object quite successfully. I do not know why the name "carborundum" has been given to it, unless there is something in the process of its manufacture which justifies this selection. Through the kindness of the inventor, I obtained a short while ago some samples which I desired to test in regard to their qualities of phosphorescence and capability of withstanding high degrees of heat.

Carborundum can be obtained in two forms—in the form of "crystals" and of powder. The former appear to the naked eye dark colored, but are very brilliant; the latter is of nearly the same color as ordinary diamond powder, but very much finer. When viewed under a microscope the samples of crystals given to me did not appear to have any definite form, but rather resembled pieces of broken up egg coal of fine quality. The majority were opaque, but there were some which were transparent and colored. The crystals are a kind of carbon containing some impurities; they are extremely hard, and withstand for a long time even an oxygen blast. When the blast is directed against them they at first form a cake of some compactness, probably in consequence of the fusion of impurities they contain. The mass withstands for a very long time the blast without further fusion; but a slow carrying off, or burning, occurs, and, finally, a small quantity of a glass-like residue is left, which, I suppose, is melted alumina. When compressed strongly they conduct very well, but not as well as ordinary carbon. The powder, which is obtained from the crystals in some way, is practically non-conducting. It affords a magnificent polishing material for stones.

The time has been too short to make a satisfactory study of the properties of this product, but enough experience has been gained in a few weeks I have experimented upon it to say that it does possess some remarkable properties in many respects. It withstands excessively high degrees of heat, it is little deteriorated by molecular bombardment, and it does not blacken the globe as ordinary carbon does. The only difficulty which I have found in its use in connection with these experiments was to find some binding material which would resist the heat and the effect of the bombardment as successfully as carborundum itself does.

I have here a number of bulbs which I have provided with buttons of carborundum. To make such a button of carborundum crystals I proceed in the following manner: I take an ordinary lamp filament and dip its point in tar, or some other thick substance or paint which may be readily carbonized. I next pass the point of the filament through the crystals, and then hold it vertically over a hot plate. The tar softens and forms a drop on the point of the filament, the crystals adhering to the surface of the drop. By regulating the distance from the plate the tar is slowly dried out and the button becomes solid. I then once more dip the button in tar and hold it again over a plate until the tar is evaporated, leaving only a hard mass which firmly binds the crystals. When a larger button is required I repeat the process several times, and I generally also cover the filament a certain distance below the button with crystals. The button being mounted in a bulb, when a good vacuum has been reached, first a weak and then a strong discharge is passed through the bulb to carbonize the tar and expel all gases, and later it is brought to a very intense incandescence.

When the powder is used I have found it best to proceed as follows: I make a thick paint of carborundum and tar, and pass a lamp filament through the paint. Taking then most of the paint off by rubbing the filament against a piece of chamois leather, I hold it over a hot plate until the tar evaporates and the coating becomes firm. I repeat this process as many times as it is necessary to obtain a certain thickness of coating. On the point of the coated filament I form a button in the same manner.

There is no doubt that such a button—properly prepared under great pressure—of carborundum, especially of powder of the best quality, will withstand the effect of the bombardment fully as well as anything we know. The difficulty is that the binding material gives way, and the carborundum is slowly thrown off after some time. As it does not seem to blacken the globe in the least, it might be found useful for coating the filaments of ordinary Incandescent lamps, and I think that it is even possible to produce thin threads or sticks of carborundum which will replace the ordinary filaments in an incandescent lamp. A carborundum coating seems to be more durable than other coatings, not only because the carborundum can withstand high degrees of heat, but also because it seems to unite with the carbon better than any other material I have tried. A coating of zirconia or any other oxide, for instance, is far more quickly destroyed. I prepared buttons of diamond dust in the same manner as of carborundum, and these came in durability nearest to those prepared of carborundum, but the binding paste gave way much more quickly in the diamond buttons: this, however, I attributed to the site and irregularity of the grains of the diamond.

It was of interest to find whether carborundum possesses the quality of phosphorescence. One is, of course, prepared to encounter two difficulties: first, as regards the rough product, the "crystals," they are good conducting, and it is a fact that conductors do not phosphoresce; second, the powder, being exceedingly fine, would not be apt to exhibit very prominently this quality, since we know that when crystals, even such as diamond or ruby, are finely powdered, they lose the property of phosphorescence to a considerable degree.

The question presents itself here, can a conductor phosphoresce? What is there in such a body as a metal, for instance, that would deprive it of the quality of phosphorescence, unless it is that property which characterizes it as a conductor? For it is a fact that most of the phosphorescent bodies lose that quality when they are sufficiently heated to become more or less conducting. Then, if a metal be in a large measure, or perhaps entirely deprived of that property, it should be capable of phosphorescence. Therefore it is quite possible that at some extremely high frequency, when behaving practically as a non-conductor, a metal of any other conductor might exhibit the quality of phosphorescence, even though it be entirely incapable of phosphorescing under the impact of a low-frequency discharge. There is, however, another possible way how a conductor might at least appear to phosphoresce.

[nat1971a]

i just ordered some carborundum to try out.........as my carbon resistor in the gray tube....see what happens

[Beshires1]

Something Been naggin at me for quite some time about the Ed Grey Patent. Now I found what the experts on this subject say isn't needed really is needed to make this system work. I think that Item 42 (Schematic) patent 4595975 is a extremely important to make this circuit work. Its supposed to be a spark gap over voltage protection device. But I know that its a switch. Here is my take on this matter. I think the tube fired.....Between the pulses that fired the motor coils. Item 42 is a switch that diverts the pulse from coils high voltage output, thru one side of the bridge rectifier to either the tube or the motor depending upon the timing position for the required pulse. The rectified, high voltage potential will pulse the coils and seek a lower voltage potential, in this case the + positive of the battery. The high voltage potential will pulse the coils and continue to the battery positive for recharging. Item 42 is a patent protection device. Most knowledgeable people in the field decided that it wouldn't work as shown, and left it out entirely, along with the connecting Load to the power source. If you drop item 42 down to the bottom right corner of the drawing you should see where it actually goes. the line drawn between the two circles should be aligned with the capacitor. The other circle should align with the load. You do not need over voltage protection to protect the high voltage source ignition coil, because its the source of the high voltage.

I attached a bridge rectifier to the high voltage output of my ignition coil and ran a wire from the + of the bridge rectifier, to the positive wire of a small 12V DC motor. I then attached the negative of the motor to the + of the battery and ...The motor started turning. It turned slowly but it will rotate. Now Someone elts try it and confirm.

Here is a drawing modified to try to show what I mean. I Think that the function of 42 was preformed in 26 (the commutator).


Besides the drawing (42 looks remarkably like a SPDT switch.

[Electrotek]

I can't help just yet with the little HV motor circuit. It's been raining the last few days here in Phoenix and the cats are inside. They do have a habbit of jumping on the workbench unexpectedly, so I can't make any sparks for awhile. At least it's not cold. (40 C)

I discovered a circuit around five years ago which helps to understand the patent. It makes an interesting effect, similar to the Water Sparkplug - without the light or sound. The spark just goes pht, puffs way up, and becomes completely opaque. With some of my experiments, I lost the diode. Remembering that Gray had an Overshoot protection circuit, I thought I'd check it out, to see if it would protect my diode. I was surprised to see that his circuit was pretty close to my own.

http://www.freewebs.com/attatchments/pics/setup.jpg

In my circuit, the D shaped component is a defribrillator inductor. This is equivalent to a motor coil, except I can't get any magnetic repusion from it, due to the drawn out spark effect, although it does affect wood. With my three electrodes, the two gaps associated with the HV cap arc all the time, as also shown in the *975 patent. However, the third electrode is CLOSER to this constant arc, based on the distance between the two primary gaps. The patent circuit shows the third electrode spaced farther away. To add mystery to the situation, John Bedini's circuit notes show the tripple gap as I have it.

With my circuit, the third electrode arcs to the constant spark between the other two electrodes. This is how the top cap charges. When this cap reaches a certain level - or anytime I move the electrode back, then reposition it, regardless of the charge level - the 'switch' flashes over, producing my effect. And this effect I'm getting is positive, in that it produces a plasma, rather than the normal negative spark from a cap's regular discharge. (That's why the electrode has to be so close; a positive discharge is difficult to initiate.) I'm actually discharaging the positive sides of two caps - each through its own coil - into an inductive arc, although my bottom cap isn't really needed for the effect.

On the other hand, when the third electrode is more distant, as in the patent, the closer electrodes produce their arc, as shown, but there is no arc to the third electrode, and the top cap doesn't charge. But, in the event of a high level of negative charge build up (likely on the grid in the Tube) the third electrode would discharge to the others, with a negative spark. (Protecting my diode.) So, while the patent spacing appears to be correct - to an unskilled reader - from the perspective of over voltage protection from the CSET's negative static charge buildup, this buildup would not occur with the alternate arrangement.

But this still leaves the question of how the top cap gets charged, in the patent circuit. Early in the patent, it says that the motor coil produces an inductive kick as its field collapses, with this voltage being in the same direction as the original potential. So this would allow the "strong positive charge" buildup on the cap, after several pulses. Then, when it talks about the Overshoot Switch, it says the motor produces negative spikes (in that direction), and that this is what the Switch protects against, with these spikes carried to ground by transient voltage diodes 44 and 46.

To further complicate the matter, reports have it that Gray didn't actually use the top cap to recover energy, since the motor produced so much torque that he was able to recharge the batteries with an alternator. Like you, I've thought for a long time that this electrode arrangement might be the secret to how his motor worked. But, without the top cap there is no exotic effect. Still, this doesn't mean that Gray didn't use the cap. It just means that he didn't discharge it across the battery. If Bedini's notes are correct, then the actual circuit is similar to mine. If so, and if this Item 42 is the secret to the operation, then there may be something missing from the circuit. Video of the motor in operation shows the CSET powered by a fairly large transformer. This looks adequate to charge the top cap with each cycle, but not through the time constant of the motor inductor. There might need to be a way to switch the cap directly to the #42 electrodes, for charging, then back in series with the motor for discharging. And this would have to happen between each pulse of the motor. This would then produce a biphasic potential through the motor, increasing its power. So, as you say, this Item 42 would also fire between the pulses which power the motor. Of course, some of this cap's charge comes from the diode T-tap, to the grids. The cap won't *automatically* discharge through 42 without nearly a full charge, but the extra charge from the T-tap may be enough, even with the motor's time constant limiting the charging rate from the other direction. Everything would have to be precisely ballanced. And the CSET itself doesn't fire with too high a pulse rate, so there may be several cycles from the transformer per discharge.


I'm still thinking about this. Now I have one more angle to consider. I think we may be getting close. John Bedini is pretty adamant that the motor will work without the CSET, perhaps using just the Ignitron. This is what Gray used to power his mass driver coils, later in his career. You and I may be right that Item 42 holds the key. I think I'll set up an experiment pretty soon. Maybe even a small test motor. Using this extra switching sequence, I should be able to get my effect more rapidly.

I'm sure Ed Gray knew exactly what his circuit was doing. So why did he have to hire someone to write the patent? Maybe it was because he couldn't figure out how to dance around the issue of this top cap's function, and obscure the patent, thereby hiding the true configuration, and function of Item 42.

[Beshires1]

I actually got my idea after reading this.
split the positive Text - Physics Forums Library
It seems these guys allready know how to make this circuit work without seeing the circuit. Anyway I'm Positive that this is the right track!

[Jetijs]

Got my graphite rod today:



It is rather brittle and I don't know how hard it will be to machine, probably harder that carbon. You can draw with this stuff and it makes your hands dirty very fast.

[nat1971a]

cool i ordered some graphite block as well....got it for $1 on ebay

[nat1971a]

thought i would point out that the carbon resistor in bedinis notes is covered by the charge receiving grids but in the patent it isnt.....i think this may be to conceal the real purpose of it in the patent.....

[nat1971a]

@beshires01

Can you please advise what u r using for the carbon resistor in your system

[nat1971a]

More info on using carbon


DARK ENERGY - Tesla's Flying Machine



One guy experimenting today:
Bill Alek writes: Hello all,

I have some very encouraging information to report in regards to my spark gap experiments:
Spark Gap Experiments

Excess electrical energy has been discovered in spark gaps using Carbon/Graphite - Tungsten rods. Assuming an ideal system, a maximum COP of 171% is possible using a Wimshurst Generator as the primary high-voltage dynamo.

A Tesla-like step-down transformer T1 with a ferrite rod is used to efficiently reduce the high-voltage down to safe practical levels, which can easily be distributed and measured. As shown in Fig. 1, successive electric discharges or Electrum Validum (EVs) discharges are generated, and their associated energy is collected in a 10uf low loss capacitor during a given period of time.

[nat1971a]

@beshires1

item 42 does seem odd.....he draws it with a circle around it....which is odd...in my book.......he draws the multivibrator and the commutator with a circle around it too....yet he quite clearly states in the patent text that it is a spark gap.....

seems odd to draw a spark gap with circles around it.....it seems to imply that all the switching devices are circled....

[Inquorate]

@nat

I've come across that page before. Looking at his setup, I theorized he was collecting the radiant event in his inductor which sit parallel to his spark rods...

[nat1971a]

@inquorate

thanks for the theory....but i am convinced a carbon block is the secret...to this device....tesla was experimenting with mixed electrodes too....carbon & copper.....and there is only one way to find out....

My theory is that the carbon resistor is the primary (equivalent to tesla's copper buss bar or copper strap....and the secondary is the charge receiving grids.....remember tesla's first experiments were with discharges into copper buss bars......a carbon buss bar is no different other than there is more resistance to any electrons and will force the energy to the outside of the conductor which is what we want...i have noted that in almost all the replications i have seen so far .....no one has taken this into account....it isnt a resistor as such it is the primary......Tesla advises us that stout conductors are of inappreciable in resistance to high frequency/high potential currents and this forces the radiant energy out to the outside.....this is want we want

if it was just a spark gap..then we would all be driving around in free energy cars.....

Cheers

Nat