Gray Tube Replication

[Ghst]

I've been running into small problems that as I try to remedy one another arises. But, I will prevail! I made a spinning contact, so I could introduce the ground into the tube only when the rotors magnets are in the proper alignment over the stator coils. This would have been good had I not used a CD disk to attach the spinning contact's spinning bar to. The foil on the CD disk draws the spark whenever, But the high voltage spark is blasting the foil clean and pretty off the disk. Hopefully it will eventually clean all away then spark only to the copper bar thats glued to the disk. I also removed the steel shaft and replaced it with a wooden oak spindle. Anyway I'm still working with this project and haven't given up yet.

YouTube - Gray Motor Test 2

[Ghst]

Gray was right! We were wrong!

I have been working on timing the capacitor discharge with the rotor position. I now understand why Gray showed the triode symbol positioned as he did in his patent. First off, WE ALL have been using a diode in the place of the triode. Which for all practical purposes allowed the tube to discharge, but only when the break down voltage of the gap was obtained. The discharge was spontaneous, occurring whenever the breakdown voltage of the gap was reached. This was fine to demo the tube working but the timing of the discharge cannot be controlled with a diode. Thats why even in Aaron's vids the motor runs very roughly. Now, the discharge is controlled by the introduction of the ground into the circuit (tube). this is why Gray used a Triode, So that there was no ground inside the tube until the rotor was in proper alignment, then a small pulse of current triggered the triode to Open or conduct. The Triode then opens to allow a negative or positive 12V to be introduced into the tube, the capacitor discharges, and repels the rotor from the stator. Grey was introducing the low voltage potential into the tube with the Triode when he wanted the tube to fire.

[Raui]

Hey Ghst!
Great to see you're still working on this. If indeed those replicating grays technology need triodes but find that they're too expensive try this video: A home-made triode | Ham Radio Blog

-Raui

[Aaron]

triode

Grey was introducing the low voltage potential into the tube with the Triode when he wanted the tube to fire.

Ghst, glad you're still at it with this project.

When I want the tube to fire, it it is really whenever I choose it to fire.

The 12v is available at the tube by any number of ways to connect the circuit behind a diode. That can be a mechanical switch, and if connected, will allow the tube to fire exactly when we want it to fire. There are multiple ways to make it does this and mechanical contact is just one way.

Whenever my motor ran rough, it is because of non-reliable point material coupled with not being able to keep the caps charged up at the speeds I need.

In Gray's early demonstrations of the coil repulsion demos, there are no triodes in that entire circuit that I know of.

I haven't done the experiments with the triode because they are too costly to blow up over and over in experiments, which Magratten and others have done. So, perhaps there is some advantage to them but conceptually, I don't see how.

With the energy gains with the "principle", I wonder if anyone has found that by adding the joules in all caps and launching a known weight, the weight is thrown higher than it is "supposed" to go.

[dllabarre]

video

Hey Ghst!
Great to see you're still working on this. If indeed those replicating grays technology need triodes but find that they're too expensive try this video: A home-made triode | Ham Radio Blog

-Raui

I'm not positive but I think that all the equipment he used to make those triodes would cost me quite a bit more then just buying the triodes.

Very nice workmanship though.

Thanks for the video.

[Raui]

I'm not positive but I think that all the equipment he used to make those triodes would cost me quite a bit more then just buying the triodes.

Very nice workmanship though.

Thanks for the video.

It was on the off chance someone had all the tools required xD

-Raui

[Ghst]

Aaron, Gray didn't need a triode in the coil popping demo There was no need to use one when he discharged the caps manually. But I do agree that there are other ways now available to time the discharge other than the triode. It can be done with magnetic switching and a relay, a lobed cam and roller lever switches. and a number other ways. Each would have to be carefully thought out as the high voltage travels strange paths, usually causing destruction. In my test 3 video I have the discharges and timing right but the discharge is not inside the tube. Its at the spinning contact that introduces the ground to the grid wire. Again this test is running only off the small 12V battery, The automotive breaker points are on the other end of the motor shaft. YouTube - Ed Gray Motor Test3

[kdas]

a problem of discharged capacitor

I have been working on timing the capacitor discharge with the rotor position. I now understand why Gray showed the triode symbol positioned as he did in his patent.

Brilliant! I've re-read patent again. Gray writes exactly about timing by triode dispite of presence of mechanical switch.

IMO capacitor must have charge after spark to create electromotive force to push grid charge through a load. While spark is fired the load is shunted by it. But after breaking the spark electric field goes througt the load and pushes charge from grid into load. If capacitor fully discharged we do not have strong electric field in the path of load and therefore have weak torgue.

In addition we have to charge capacitor again by powerful HV source. Forget OU, baby

For switching I thought about oil-filled magnet-aided mechanical switch.

Another way is to make third insulated anode with its own HV source. So after discharge of primary capacitor we still have an electric field througt the load.
But I suggest it can be ineffective because of volume negative charge around this anode after some time. Gray wrote in another patent something about ventilation and appropriate pressure.

[Ghst]

I think I can make a high voltage relay from a SPST (normally open ) automotive relay. I have already tested that the relay will work immersed in mineral oil. By immersed in mineral oil I mean that I removed the plastic cover from the relay, and immersed only the relay's coil solenoid and contacts. I did not immerse the connection base in the mineral oil. But I haven't tested to see if the HV will seek ground thru the relay coil's power connections(85, 86), that is will the HV pass thru the contact and travel through the relay's coil to ground as it does using a standard "dry" auto accessory relay. This needs further exploration.

[pranav2010]

about the torque of the motor

can any one tell me how can i find the torque of the ev motor

please help me

thank you

[nat1971a]

@ghst

Well done!! Love the videos and the great work you are doing

just wondering what your amp draw is?

And if your motor has enough torque to run an alternator?

Cheers

Nat

[martin]

My 2 cents

Im not so sure the tube was ever ment to work by itself, without the motor. For months I have been going over and over everything that's been posted and tried.

Here's one conclusion Ive came to. I think Aaron's circuit theory is correct, however I think Gray was doing something different obviously, or else someone would have duplicated this by now. So, the common sense thing to do is look at what no one has tried yet.

If you study how the motor was built, you'll see that it used ALOT of insulating material for most of the internal workings. He mentions "pressurized air" also being applied inside the motor. Also, he mentions super tight clearances between the rotor and stators. Let's theorize that the insulating material was teflon. If you look at a dielectric table, this material exhibits a negative charge. Air exhibits a positive charge. Now with the internals spinning with extremely tight spacing, does this not sound like a static machine?? This would allow energy to be introduced from a source other than the power supply.

I think Gray's supply did indeed supply a high voltage, but where everyone including me has been using the same supply to supply the lower positive voltage and higher positive voltage, I think the highest voltage in Gray's unit was supplied by the HV static generated by the motor internals. Since the arc occured between the rotor and the stator, I think some of the gain came from shorting out the static field (electron avalanche) and this is how the Floating Flux Field picked up induced voltages as well because with the continual building of static and then shorting it out would cause a pulsed HV static field that could now be picked up and used in a coil.

It was even said that Gray's motor wouldnt work without the air passing through the motor. This smells like static to me! I know they said that it was to keep the motor from freezing up, but the static application makes more sense.

[Aaron]

interesting point

Very interesting Martin! It could be an amendment to the power supply.

[martin]

Very interesting Martin! It could be an amendment to the power supply.

It's the only thing that makes sense with flowing air across it. Why else would Gray go to the expense and trouble of all of that specialized insulation. Id say it's either teflon or delrin, and either one is very expensive. Evidently witnesses that seen the original motor run said there was ALOT of static electricity around the room with the motor in it.

Id say Cole found a way to combine static using dielectrics and I think that the motor is one way. I think Cole's black box power supply uses this same method. Now, whether there's a smaller motor in the box or maybe there's some specialized transformer utilizing these dielectric materials is anyone's guess. I know that Tesla built a transformer just out of dielectric materials!

[boguslaw]

Floating Flux Field looks like magnetic flux mentioned by Don Smith. An effect of disruptive discharge of capacitor into coil. I'd like to state once more - Gray tube was kind of Tesla coil. Compare them and add what is missing from Gray patent. Copper grids were probably in fact a spirally wound strange secondary. There is not much turns in secondary (in fact 2-3) but as Gray started process with large power of HV capacitor he didn't needed a lot of it.
Missing is at least one turn of primary,resistance after primary seems to enlarge effect. The circuit during disruptive discharge must be disconnected from power source (open path) - that's why so strange device name...

IMHO that link contains good information about produced field : Complete information on working SM style device.