Gray Tube Replication

[boguslaw]

Of course.You are right and if you return back a lot pages in that thread I posted exactly from where Cole could got motor coils schematic.
I don't say that I know everything or replicate Gray CSET. I only say that according to my current knowledge and feeling this man talking about excess huge energy was right.Lightning is also cold electricity up to the moment when electrons start flowing. The main problem with lightning theories is that they contradict each other : one is stated that cloud charge is positive and second that it's negative and thirds that part is positive and second part negative. Unfortunately this is very important information.Can somebody clarify what is going on in cloud before lightning is fired ?

[Jbignes5]

Of course.You are right and if you return back a lot pages in that thread I posted exactly from where Cole could got motor coils schematic.
I don't say that I know everything or replicate Gray CSET. I only say that according to my current knowledge and feeling this man talking about excess huge energy was right.Lightning is also cold electricity up to the moment when electrons start flowing. The main problem with lightning theories is that they contradict each other : one is stated that cloud charge is positive and second that it's negative and thirds that part is positive and second part negative. Unfortunately this is very important information.Can somebody clarify what is going on in cloud before lightning is fired ?

I believe the cloud is one polarity and the ground is the other. Although they have little pockets of the other polarity in them they are mostly mono charged. The lightning is the arc space and the polarizer is the magnetosphere of our planet. It's like one big Magnetic spark gap.

[nat1971a]

i am of the opinion that the secret gray had was the formation of a stationary wave in the circuit. The patents carefully hide how the circuit operates. Review the old gray patents. Study how they could have worked by generating standing/stationary waves. Why did Tesla talk about stationary waves as his circuits were all about generating stationary waves. They always have been. Yet i dont see anyone building circuits to produce a pure stationary wave. I would like to but am so busy with work...i am struggling to find any time at the moment.

[boguslaw]

how lightning is propagating in air and why it is depicted as it is ?

nobody took the challenge

[mlurye]

Hello everebody,

Here is CD with history Mark collected on Ed V. Gray:

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

This CD is published with Marks permission.
Mark asked to put the following disclaimer:
“These collected documents have not been edited to reflect all the available historical facts. They contain a mixture of early speculations, half truths, wild goose chases, incomplete concepts, and outright lies. Please consider this sorry state of affairs when searching through these offered pages for technical clues to re-discover this fantastic technology.”

[mlurye]

Mark,
I was going through your CD and I picked up 1 good idea. On many pictures I noticed they were using coaxial cable and by introducing CSET they were trying to replace it.
And if we are going back to original build we need to think of using coaxial cable.

[experimental1]

Battery charging

Hi guys I am new to the forum and this is my first post, I like the way things are progressing. I am working my way through this thread and wondered if anyone has tried charging batterys either with or without the tube. Im sorry if someone has already answered this previously. I have experimented with the basic sparkplug circuit already and wired a relay in series with the coil of my pulse PM motor. I used this to trigger the cap dump via a DPDT relay, I was charging the cap via a 120v battery bank and was impressed with the power of the spark when the diode was added. I have experimented with many different things before like bedini, newman, tesla stuff. I am very excited the way collectively your work is going, keep up the good work.

[nat1971a]

Here's an exerpt from my thread (post 39)where i do some digging into Telsas researchhttp://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-1872-a-2.html


"OMG i just noticed in edwin grays patent inductors 23 & 28 also (in the attachment of post 31 of this thread)...I know how this works now!!!!"

Did you notice the symmetry too....Inductors 23 & 28 would create a standing wave just as Tesla specified - the coils are wound equally and oppositely. Mark Mckay has been right all along the floating flux coils hold the key - they generate standing wave/stationary waves. What is missing in the patent is the complete symmetry of the circuit as specified by Houston/Tesla. Compare them to Tesla's zinc box which is described in detail towards the very end of the thread....10 turns on secondary.....how many turns in the floating flux coil....10 turns....conicidence...don't think so!!!

And what exactly is the floating flux coils made from. Looks like coaxil cable to me. Who patented coaxil cable - Tesla did!!

[Jbignes5]

Now you are getting somewhere...

See the evidence it there. One just needs to put two and two together to get the results. I'll have to check your information but I think you might have seen something I missed as well. Thank you.

[Spokane1]

The Floating Flux Field - Technical Mystery at its Finest

Here's an exerpt from my thread (post 39)where i do some digging into Telsas researchhttp://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-1872-a-2.html


"OMG i just noticed in edwin grays patent inductors 23 & 28 also (in the attachment of post 31 of this thread)...I know how this works now!!!!"

Did you notice the symmetry too....Inductors 23 & 28 would create a standing wave just as Tesla specified - the coils are wound equally and oppositely. Mark Mckay has been right all along the floating flux coils hold the key - they generate standing wave/stationary waves. What is missing in the patent is the complete symmetry of the circuit as specified by Houston/Tesla. Compare them to Tesla's zinc box which is described in detail towards the very end of the thread....10 turns on secondary.....how many turns in the floating flux coil....10 turns....conicidence...don't think so!!!

And what exactly is the floating flux coils made from. Looks like coaxil cable to me. Who patented coaxil cable - Tesla did!!

Dear nat197a,

As you dig into the relationships between the Gray (Marvin Cole) Floating Flux Field (FFF) and Dr. Tesla technology here are some tips (facts and WAGs) to help you along.

1.) In the classic photo (B&W) of the EMA4-E1 there are two layers of the large coax looking cable (it looks like RG-11) for a total of 18 turns. These two layers are sperated with an additional layer of white sheet insulation about 0.125" thick (1/8")

2.) These are individual turns - 18 each, not a continuous coil of one cable- like one would think. There is a GD photograph that show this construction feature.

3.) This implies that there are 18 each unit power supplies. One turn of the coax (or what ever it is) for each supply.

4.) So the effective length of each "Transmission Line" is about 6'-7'. If classical calculatios were applied we are looking at a resonate frequency in the 2 meter band somewhere.

5.) The case of the motor became charged during operation. The photos show that the case is connected to the neutral point of the battery array with a large (#4-0) cable. The potential obtained may have been on the order of a couple hundred KV - say 200KV. This is because during operation it attracted loose hair, much like a Van d'Gaff electrostatic machine.

6.) The large cable (0.750" in diameter) may not be standard coax, but could be a a high inductance cable where the core is made of ferrite, as used in some WWII radar systems. This allows for a much longer transmission velocity constant. Such a cable could have been avaliable from surplus channels in the early 70's.

7.) The case of the motor for the EMA4-E1 is thought to be standard aluminum, therefore it would normally act as an electrostatic shield for anything happening in the motor, but there is some evidence that the whole story is more complacated. The electron avanche process in the arcs that were struck between the stator and rotor poles resulted in charging the Delrin dielectric blocks to a huge negative potential. If the back half of the motor used a different kind of interpole dielectric that would charge positive when exposed to an arc, then a huge dipole would be created within the motor case, with the FFF right in the middle. With such a huge charge differential the case would no longer be neutral, nor act as a shield, as charges would migrate to each end of the case creating a large dipole. Much like the isolated neutral bar on a Whimhurst Machine. The motor case would then act as the common between two capacitor banks (9 capacitors each) of opposite charge. Depending upon how much charge was generated during the arcing process you can seen that a lot of energy was collected within the structure of the motor construction. All most all references to the electrostatic operation of the motor was removed from the pulse motor patent- but Gray didn't take the time (or didn't have the knowlege) to remove all of it from the patent illustrations.

8.) The overall operation of the motor was 1/3 electromagnetic or 120 degrees of the rotation was done with classical magnetic repulsion of the large "Major Electromagnets" operating in ruplusion mode. During the remaining 240 degrees of operation the motor changed mode to an electrostatic motor where the charged dielectric blocks caused the metal plates (that the pairs of electromagnets were mounted on) to act as capacitor plates. Thus, after the first 1/3 rotation all of these 18 each mounting plates acted as a set of 18 charged capacitors. These capacitors were sequentially discharged and used to recharge the primary storage capacitors (18 each). This is after they had provided a substantial amount of additional electrostatic torque for "Free".

9.) The switching system used for this mode change is observed in the GD photographs.

10.) At the moment the best guess for the location of the overall non-classical process seems to be taking place in the arc that charges the dielectric blocks. Dr. Flanagan (of Pyramid Power Fame) has a patent for a device that casues a dielectric to create a huge electrostatic field when exposed to a certain frequency of RF. In the Marvin Cole Motor a short pulse contains almost all frequencies of RF. Perhaps a single pulse of RF is all that is needed (along with the electron injection) to charge up a block of dielectric to some high mass potential that then can be used to induce classical charge in a metal plate.

But, something else is taking place with the FFF. It is located in the middle of the motor case dipole that may have been reversing polarity at 9 times the speed of the motor. This would be on the order of 225 Hz. (at 1500 RPM) If the "FFF" cable were a linear Electret, this alternating electrostatic field would have generated some amount of current in the short section of FFF cable. Classical estimates of the magnitude of this current is on the order of microampers. So something else much have been going on.

These are just random thoughts for your consideration. This whole proposal rests on the ability of an arc to charge a dielectric both positive and negative. There is some evidence to this being the case. In Marvin Cole's early experimention with popping coils he was using plastic inter poles of two different kinds of plastic (different colors). So this concept is somewhat workable. Now to see if it will work in the lab.

Spokane1

[nat1971a]

ok so the million dollar question is what is the exact length of these bad boy inductors 23 & 28 to give us stationary waves

well if we follow what tesla said the sum of both inductors must be quarter wave length.

But what did Tesla mean exactly by that......

In patent 787412 P2 line 93

He states "the total length of the secondary should be equal to one-quarter of the wave length of light or else to that length multiplied by an odd number"

Hmmm...well we all know that Tesla was duplicating Dr Heinrich Hertz's work. So in Hertz's book called "electric waves" of 1893. Page 128 Figure 26 says that quarter wave length is 1.8 metres in length. This gave the maximum sparking distance as advised on page 44.

It also states on page 130 that 1.8 metres is a node of a stationary wave of magnetic force.

[Spokane1]

The Floating Flux Field as a Transmission Line

ok so the million dollar question is what is the exact length of these bad boy inductors 23 & 28 to give us stationary waves

well if we follow what tesla said the sum of both inductors must be quarter wave length.

Dear nat1971a,

Exploring standing waves in the Marvin Cole "Floating Flux Field" is certainly an interesting subject.

In order to acheive standing waves in any form of transmission line you need near total reflection of the electrostatic wave front. You also need the input excitation signal to be timed so that it matches velocity of the standing wave. There are many ways to acheive this.

However, in the Cole Motor there are two very limiting design criteria. 1)The series diode that feeds the "FFF" at one end and 2) a large capacitor at the other end. (If the schematic of this part of the power supply was correctly disclosed).

The load storage capacitor will act as a line to line short as seen by any fast moving voltage pulse. While the diode will appear as an open to a positive pulse, while presenting the impedance of the induction coil secondary to a negative pulse. This implies that in order for reflection to take place only positive pulses can be reflected from the diode. The near dead short at the capacitor end will reflect incoming voltage pulses 180 degrees. To get them back to a positive polarity they have to travel through a half wave of transmission line.

You can work out the details for few modes of resonance that will work in this configiuration. To me it appears that only a half wave process would allow any kind of standing waves. This would put the voltage resonate rise for the high part of the node at the diode end and the zero voltage node at the capacitor end. If I have this right, then the capacitor would not charge at all, at least not with classical electricity.

The real challenge is to figure out how the frequency of the excitation signal can be made so high with the configuration of components disclosed. Years ago my best guess at the minimum operating frequency of this kind of system was around 30 MHz. You can do your own math and see what frequency you come up with depending upon the transmission line parameters you select. Never the less it is almost an impossible fit to see how an induction transformer, of any winding configuration can come up with that operating frequency while running in the field collapse mode. The inductance of the secondary is just to darn high. This is not an RF circuit. Its not even a Tesla Magnifier Circuit.

If the induction coil were driven directly, as in an RF oscillator, then the operating frequency would be determined by its input. In this case the actual input pulse rate was around 100 Hz, as observed first hand by John Bedini in 1973. So much for looking for a 30 MHz signal source there.

An induction transformer can be configured as a relaxition oscillator if a non-linear switch is provided, most commonly a spark gap. Now the sawtooth frequency is determined by the inductance of the secondary and its parasitic shunt capacitance. Here you get a burst of RF, however this burst sweeps a certain range of frequencies from some high value to a low value. Even so the upper range of this kind of operation is limited to frequencies below 40 KHz. Much to low to get standing waves in 9' of typical coax.

Dr. Tesla used resonate rise in his table top oscillators. These were insturments of pure technical beauty. His pair of transmission lines terminated into an open circuit at the output terminals (not a large value capacitor), while the input end was connected back to back to the other transmission line. These two coils then beat aganist each other to simulate a low impedance node at the neutral connection. Shear brilliance. His input frequency was acheived using the mass resonance of the primary copper bar. When this bar was struck with the discharge of the capacitor it would ring at 50 MHz. His primary storage capacitor was tuned to match the low frequency discharge of his mechanical contacts that operated at a low speed. Later he used motor commutation to speed this rate up quite a bit.

Try as I may I have not been able to connect the genius of the Tesla circuit to anything that Cole was doing with his circuit, at least not in the section involving the FFF.

I've given up on searching for a high frequency operation of this circuit. It just doesen't fit the system with its large storage capacitors and huge inductors. But, I could be wrong. I think that the power supply portion of the circuit is low frequency. Now what is going on in the stretched arc section is of the motor is a different matter.

No doubt that the FFF was intended to act as an antenna of some sorts, perhaps not indended for classical EM waves. In which case you can dispose of all this classical transmission theory and make up your own rules. The FFF was installed at this location for a specific technical reason. I certainly haven't figured it out.

Best of luck on your method of exploration into this novel system.

Spokane1

[mlurye]

I did play a little bit with coaxial cable and the only way I see it was used is as variable capacitor. 100' cable has capacitance of 1.5nF so by cutting it short it's possible to tune capacitance to any needed value.

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

Here's an exerpt from my thread (post 39)where i do some digging into Telsas researchhttp://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-1872-a-2.html


"OMG i just noticed in edwin grays patent inductors 23 & 28 also (in the attachment of post 31 of this thread)...I know how this works now!!!!"

Did you notice the symmetry too....Inductors 23 & 28 would create a standing wave just as Tesla specified - the coils are wound equally and oppositely. Mark Mckay has been right all along the floating flux coils hold the key - they generate standing wave/stationary waves. What is missing in the patent is the complete symmetry of the circuit as specified by Houston/Tesla. Compare them to Tesla's zinc box which is described in detail towards the very end of the thread....10 turns on secondary.....how many turns in the floating flux coil....10 turns....conicidence...don't think so!!!

And what exactly is the floating flux coils made from. Looks like coaxil cable to me. Who patented coaxil cable - Tesla did!!

Hey guys, I started a thread that addresses the opposing windings, and what you're reffering to as floating flux....I think flux compression is a better term for it http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ead.php?t=5542

Also, I found a reference to Tesla using a setup with 2 secondaries of different frequencies in paralell, forcing the high frequency high voltage to slam the low frequency high amperage coil! The effect produces ball lightning!
Corum - Tesla Ball Lightning Tesla Coil

[nat1971a]

Supercavitationistic,

I like where you are heading with this. Thanks for posting the information on the ball lightning. Confirms we are now looking in the right area. Keep up the good work.

Cheers

Nat1971a