Gray Tube Replication

[erfinder]

Dear Arron,

For me, I'm using industrial 500A 1600V IGJBT's or strings of 4 each 250A 1600V SCR's. I'll let you know which works best.
Mark McKay

Do you have a schematic for the IGBT and SCR circuits that you are willing to share? I am very interested in both...I have search and searched, but have yet to find anything useful..

Thanks in advance.

Regards

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

Supposedly one of Gray's motors was found.

this was posted at overunity.com
YouTube - EV Gray Motor Found!

[Aaron]

NOT a free energy motor

That motor runs on conventional power - it is NOT the
"Gray Tube" circuit and is not Marvin Cole's technology.

That is not a free energy motor - it has historical value
but will not show anyone anything special.

What that motor originally was has been butchered
to pieces and anything good was destroyed or lost.
It was reworked into a motor that runs on completely
conventional energy.

[boguslaw]

Spokane1

I saw somewhere in your archive that Gray standalone device promoted for home uses needed quite a long starting time to get fully running on itself.Can you confirm that ? Can you found how that was explained ?

P.S. I agree that the timing in CSET was critical factor.Stan Meyer stepping voltage is also a good comparision.However I don't believe that Cole-Gray circuit worked on large current, quite opposite.

Boguslaw

[Slovenia]

Very Interesting

Boguslaw, this sounds very very interesting.

What about classical tesla coil made as flyback ? Like car ignition coil for example... I think you are right, totally right!
One can pump high frequency high voltage circuit with low voltage path, in the end from HV low current it makes HV large current = large power.

[Slovenia]

Gray Replication

Check out the Rebus57 posts at the following link:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-dipole-8.html

You need to read all his posts and refer to his diagram and schematic.

[lamare]

Great book

Hi all,

I found a great book "THE ULTIMATE Tesla Coil Design AND CONSTRUCTION GUIDE" which has an excellent chapter on spark gaps.

You can find this book online by googling for "Ultimate Tesla Coil Design Construction Guide filetypedf".

It also contains Spice models, a.o. for spark gaps, for use with the Micro-Cap student edition, which can be downloaded free of charge at: Micro-Cap Evaluation Download .

Along with the book, you can download some very interesting Excel sheets as well as the Micro-Cap models used in the book here: McGraw-Hill Professional

Will be interesting to try and model the Gray tube with this stuff...

Update: looks like MC 10 does not work under wine. Maybe MC 9 does:
MICRO-CAP.CO.UK | About

[7imix]

I found a great book "THE ULTIMATE Tesla Coil Design AND CONSTRUCTION GUIDE" which has an excellent chapter on spark gaps.

This book looks super awesome. Thank you.

[lamare]

Spark gaps: negative resistance

Just found some interesting info on spark gaps. These inhibit a negative resistance effect, which makes them suitable for oscillators:

Electricity and magnetism for advanced students : Starling, Sydney G. (Sydney George), b. 1873 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
(pages attached)
Full text of "Electricity and magnetism for advanced students"

To understand this production of oscillations, let us consider what will happen on closing the shunt circuit ACL. The flow of current into the condenser causes a drop in that in the arc, with consequent drop in temperature and increase in resistance. The resistance of the arc is then a greater fraction of the resistance of the main circuit, and the difference of potential between the carbons rises, with further production of flow into the condenser. Eventually the accumulation of charge in the condenser raises the difference of potential between its coats to that between the carbons, and the current into the condenser ceases, and the arc will regain its original condition. The current in the arc having risen again to its original value, its resistance has fallen, and likewise the fall of potential across it, so that a reverse flow from the condenser begins, and a reverse set of changes will follow.
The inductance in the shunt circuit has the function of giving it inertia, so that, the current having started, the circuit is always carried past the stable condition, and oscillations occur. The existence of the oscillation depends upon the fact that the resistance of the arc varies with the current in such a manner that the potential difference between the carbons diminishes with increasing current, and the arc behaves as though it had a negative resistance. This is the condition for the production of the singing arc.

Electronic Musical Instrument 1870 - 1990

Technically note: a current arc between to electrodes, shunted by a circuit containing a capacitance and inductance would establish an oscillating circuit. The value of the of the capacitance and inductance determines the frequency of oscillation. An arc follows a characteristic, which is the inverse of Ohm's law in that when the current of the arc is increased, the voltage across the electrodes decreases. This characteristic is often called negative resistance. Placing a series LC circuit across the terminals of an arc will initially cause the capacitor to charge, diverting some of the current away from the arc. Given the aforementioned arc characteristics, the potential difference between the arc electrodes will increase, putting the capacitor at an even higher voltage. Once the capacitor reaches full charge the arc current will reverse to discharge the capacitor back into the arc. As the current into the arc increases, the potential difference will fall and the voltage across the capacitor will also fall to a point, which it will begin to charge again. If the circuit resistance is small enough, this process will continue as an oscillation. Duddel found that it was necessary to use a minimum of 1 microfarad of capacitance to obtain oscillations of considerable energy. With this large capacitance, it was not possible to reach high enough frequencies for transmission of Radio-telegraphy.

The book mentioned in my previous post, also talks about this (page 207):

While in the transition region the current is increasing while the voltage drop across the gap decreases, exhibiting the characteristics of a negative resistance. Once the arc is formed the ionization of the gas increases with temperature, lowering the resistance even further, making it an even better conductor.

This suggests that the operation of the Gray tube, if depending on resonating the load coil, requires a continuous arc to be formed across the spark gap in order to get the load coil into resonance.

With modern electronics, negative resistance can be obtained using a so-called lambda diode:
Oscillations and Regenerative Amplification using Negative Resistance
Lambda diode
Lambda Negative Resistance Dip Meter

[sykavy]

@ Aaron-- I hope this isn't too of subject but could have Stan Meyer's tubes be just another version of Gray tubes? My thinking is if he saw all the extra energy dumped in the Gray patent and thought why not use that energy to split water? Isn't there a connection?

[Aaron]

@Lamare and Sykavy

@Lamare - excellent find - will have to dig into that. It is related.

@Sykavy - No, but Meyer's tubes are an effort to duplicate Puharich.

[lamare]

@Lamare - excellent find - will have to dig into that. It is related.

@Sykavy - No, but Meyer's tubes are an effort to duplicate Puharich.

Eric Dollard also talks about this in his introduction into Tesla coils (page 4-7):

http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Eric_Dollard_...esla+Coils.pdf

The transformer's principals of operation are as follows:

The first requirement is the sudden collapse of an energy field thereby producing a sudden impulse of energy, second is the transforming properties of the odd harmonic ordered single wire delay line (coil) which allow for the production of enormous E.M.F. and M.M.F., and third, the dielectric phenomena surrounding the free space capacity terminal.

1) The formation of the energy impulse involves the discharge of a capacitor with the highest practical stored energy into an impedance (inductive) of the lowest practical value, and the discharge path is coupled to an energy supply through a negative resistance device. This negative resistance is classically a spark discharge, but a superior plasma device needs to be developed to enhance efficiency. Under optimal conditions the exponent of oscillation amplitude will be positive over a sustained period of time.

[pranav2010]

aaron sir three point schematic

hi aaron
is this working ???
i am trying to do it but its not working
can you tell me is this working???

[Aaron]

comments on circuit

Hi Pranav,

I would move the SCR to the negative side of the ignition coil primary.
That way the positive potential of the cap is already inside the coil
when you switch the SCR. On the positive side, the positive potential
has to move into the resistance of the windings. I believe it is also
the standard way of doing it - switching it on the negative.
However, this should not prevent it from working - but I would switch
on the negative.

Your reed is just connecting the trigger of the SCR to ground but you
need a positive potential there. You show Battery + there so I'm not
sure if that is what you mean, please clarify. In any case, move the SCR
to the ground and put the reed across the anode and the gate and you'll
want to put a resistor between anode and reed.

With the SCR, if your cap is not discharging enough on each cycle, the
SCR will not turn off and will remain conducting. From an AC source to your
cap - for example, if there was a full bridge, that SCR probably won't turn
off, with half bridge, the SCR will turn off. With the voltage doubler, I'm
not sure if the cap is able to discharge enough to shut off the SCR. I think
you are getting 120hz (if you are on 60hz) and that may not allow the SCR
to turn off. That has been my experience.

Also, your CDI cap is 200v but I think you should have at least a 400v
cap so you don't blow it up. You have 120uf on the CDI cap and that
capacitance should work but I think that is quite a bit to discharge into
an ignition coil. Again, will probably work at that capacitance because I've
done it with more but since you have 1000v 2uf booster cap, you can use
quite a bit lower uf on the cdi cap. I would do 47uf max and you can
probably get away with as low as 4uf but I'd probably do 10uf~47uf
range for the CDI cap for this application. And charging a CDI cap from
the wall, you may want a serious power resistor between the AC and
ground of cap.

It is optional, but you could put some HV diode(s) from the HV output
of ignition coil to the gap. That would prevent any feedback into the HV
windings from anywhere else.

Your 3 point gap arrangement looks good. Forcing HV to hit LV before
hitting grid point.

On your low voltage source, make sure to use at least a 2kv or 3kv
bridge if you want 1kv out of it. It will let the microwave oven transformer
work easier. Common ground looks good.

On the trifilar, actually only a bifilar is needed. I used a trifilar because that
is what I had freed up. The recovery winding can be in the same direction
or opposite. If you check the last weeks posts in the Renaissance
conference thread, you can see some discussion on the reverse wound
concept. If you do happen to use a trifilar, do NOT connect the 26 and
23 gauge (trigger and power) winding in parallel. This slows the decay
rate of the magnetic field and you want it fast. At least at this point.
There are some interesting properties to paralleled coils but that should
be explored later and not when getting it to run.

Is this the diagram that Mark McKay drew up? Anyway, please make the
above changes to this diagram and let's move to the next step. Show
me the changes and I want to double check it before you try it.

The SCR issue is probably the main reason why it is not working for you.
If you just put that to the negative side, invert it of course, and put
reed between anode and gate.

[pranav2010]

circuit modification

hi aaron
please tell me will it work ???

you are right i found this Mark McKay collection.