Gray Tube Replication

[Guest]

Following is my revised picture of how Edwin Gray gathered electricity.
(It is his Efficient Power Supply patent in focus)

A cathode must be attached onto the +12V of the battery to recieve the
radiant burst emitting from the capacitor bank charging from AC combined
with itself...

The input to the system is collected by attracting with a potential
induced to flow on the positive pole of the battery caused by a polarization
circuit of diode and capacitor in parallel.

When the (+) current of the battery is combined with its energy flowing
in the capacitors anode charging from the inverted DC through a transformer
again polarized with a diode end to end, being subject to a plasma burst
would cause it to transform over the airspace and onto the pickup surface.

The HV signal crosses a gap onto ground from the ignition coil, and the
positive potential of the battery absorbs the radiant charge emitted.

[ Efficient Power Supply at Pure Energy Systems ]

[ Edwin Gray's Efficient Power Supply Patent ]

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

nope, that's NOT HOW IT WORKS.

This bull**** about the diode tube being drawn backwards in the patent is INSANE!

The high voltage charges the grid from the start... current flows and builds the magnetic field in the load as the grid and cap at ground are charging.... the 'low voltage anode' then discharges the cap on the ground side of the grid/load to the high voltage anode when the switch is shut.... The magnetic field collapses on the load, and the current swings in the opposite direction as energy is transfered between 'anodes', causing RADIANT explosion of electrons OUTWARDS, being drawn to the grids causing multipaction on the grids, and discharging the capacitor between the load and ground, with a discharge greater than the charge, and boosted by the backemf of the load's magnetic field reversing.

READ THE PATENT.... look at the other devices out there that do the same thing.... Hiddink's capacity charger, Pavel Imris' optical electrostatic generator....

The way Aaron and Bedini want you do it, is to force a multipaction inward on the grids, which inevitably results in a rebound outwards.... NOT A UNIDIRECTIONAL IMPULSE. That way works, OBVIOUSLY, BUT IT'S NOT THE WAY GRAY DID IT, nor is it the way electrons want to flow naturally.

In fact, it's probably easier to think about it in terms of the patent Edwin Gray cited: Thyratron switch for narrow pulses - Google Patent Search

[Aaron]

@?

And you know this by NEVER doing any experiments on it but just
reading some patents and thinking you understand what it is about?

Ed Gray demonstrated the motor personally to John Bedini and his associate
and were allowed to examine it and the diode was REVERSED, just like
John shows in his drawings.

You want to say what we show is BS, then you quote the bible in your
signature to "expose" people, but you don't even have the decency to
post any of your own experiments - just lip service. Get real and don't be
a hypocrite.

There are also other factors you don't even know exist but you want to sit
here and tell everyone how it is - again, without any experiments!

[ewizard]

I apologize for just jumping in on this but which diode in the patent is backwards? I see one labeled #44, one #46 and then there is the tube #28 that I believe is used as a rectifier. I'll take a guess at #44 ?

[Aaron]

diode placement

Actually #28, it is a vacuum thyristor being used as a diode. Patent
shows it in conventional way of how most people would think it should be.

HV moves in one directly towards LV source according to patent diagram.

Those that inspected it in person saw that it was actually placed in the
circuit in the opposite direction that the patent shows.

[Guest]

There are a few aspects of this I've still not fully grasped pertaining
to the Engineering Report by Gary Magratten.

They way he shows it, there is a surge of current going into the
charging capacitor on the high voltage anode which in our case would
be the low voltage rod; in other words the (+) battery current crosses
the gap into capacitor 16 from patent figure 1 and on to the (-) pole
through the capacitor charging up with high voltage.

This is obviously much different than our setups with the ignition coil,
in which a low voltage standing potential from the caps and string of
diodes is caused to arc onto its cathode by the plasma burst.

Another thing I'm seeing is that Magratten has indicated the direction
of current flow with arrows against the apparent orientation of his diode
symbols.

At this point I would like to revise my system in an effort to more accurately
capture the battery charging effect by way of the 12V current pulse from the
battery via capacitor #2 across the gap into the high voltage charging
cap #1 and on to the (-) pole of the battery...

The following is my rendition of how this may work with the plasma
ignition and low voltage charger combined with current from the battery.

If either this or a variation of it does not provide the recharging effect
as described by the Report, I'll be doing away with the pulsed HV plasma in favor
of switching the LV side onto a HV standing potential surrounded by the
pickup tubes.

[Guest]

Now that I've had a further chance to think about it, the setup of
my previous diagram seems as though it might blow out the coil with
all the current going through from the battery... perhaps a reason
in this case to have the coil positioned before the large blocking
diode.

One thing that is still nagging me is that, in the patent and research
report they have the high-voltage anode surrounded by the pickup tubes
acting as a conduit for the current of the battery to return into its
(-) pole, acting to recharge it by passing energy gained from the
photoelectric effect through the capacitor charging up from the
transformer. The radiant energy of the arc will be collected by the
pickup tubes and transferred onto the high-voltage anode and into
the (-) pole of the battery alongside the current passing through from
the (+) LV side.

With 3KV as his running voltage, Magratten must have had extremely close
spacing between the high and low voltage rods.

The idea as I'm seeing it now is to have a low-current, high voltage
positive potential on the longer rod surrounded by tubes, enough that
it can easily cross the gap onto the low-voltage rod once it is switched
on. The diode on the LV turns off when the switch is thrown and slams
the (+)12V into the HV potential and shorts out the battery by connecting
it to the (-) pole through the HV capacitor.

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

And you know this by NEVER doing any experiments on it but just
reading some patents and thinking you understand what it is about?

Ed Gray demonstrated the motor personally to John Bedini and his associate
and were allowed to examine it and the diode was REVERSED, just like
John shows in his drawings.

You want to say what we show is BS, then you quote the bible in your
signature to "expose" people, but you don't even have the decency to
post any of your own experiments - just lip service. Get real and don't be
a hypocrite.

There are also other factors you don't even know exist but you want to sit
here and tell everyone how it is - again, without any experiments!

Aaron, I'm sorry you take this as a personal attack, it was not one at all. I said the way
you do it works the way you show! It's cool you do that, but that's not what Edwin did.

You use the effect of displacement current also, but almost backwards from what he did.

Maybe Gray did run a motor this way, but it's NOT what is shown in the videos.

Here is a link to the original promotional video by Zetex, Gray's company in the 1980s
YouTube - E V Gray 1986 Promotional Video Part One

What you are doing is just the first step in what Gray did.

You see the conversion tube firing multiple times and the wire wound coils pulsing and
repelling and finally levitating before the final impulse that shoots them apart.

The grids are charging positive each time the arc is struck, and current flows inwards to
the center grid each time, and when the arc breaks, the current tries to move outward again.

As long as the arc is maintained, the grids hold a negative charge on them in response to
the h.v. positive charge. This also charges the capacitor on the ground side of the coil.

They are using a rotary spark gap between the l.v. electrode and ground/battery, which seems
to be started from a stop for each individual demonstration, which is why the break rate
increases until a stable arc is formed at the spark gap on the tube.

This is also why the coils bounce then hover, because the arc keeps breaking until the speed is high enough that
the arc is maintained.

Once the rotary gap is at full speed, and the capacitor between the
load and ground is fully charged, and the grids are saturated with negative charge, then the
arc is broken.

When the arc breaks, there is no potential on the h.v. anode because it
doesn't see a closed circuit, so the current rushes outwards from the grids explosively. The arc is broken by turning off the diode tube.

EXACTLY THE SAME AS JOSEPH HIDDINK'S CAPACITY CHARGER
Capacity changer - Patent 4095162

p.s. Don't hurt yourself rolling on the floor, unless you're on fire, and then you won't be laughing And I've been doing more and more experimenting lately, but I don't really need to defend myself because I wasn't insulting you.

[Aaron]

insults and disruptions

nope, that's NOT HOW IT WORKS.

This bull**** about the diode tube being drawn backwards in the patent is INSANE!

You are calling what what we are saying is bs - please don't act like
haven't directly insulted us.

Maybe Gray did run a motor this way, but it's NOT what is shown in the videos.

Here is a link to the original promotional video by Zetex, Gray's company in the 1980s
YouTube - E V Gray 1986 Promotional Video Part One

What you are doing is just the first step in what Gray did.

You see the conversion tube firing multiple times and the wire wound coils pulsing and
repelling and finally levitating before the final impulse that shoots them apart.

All this proves is that you have absolutely no idea about about what you're
looking at in regards to Ed Gray's technology, period.

That discharge unit is 100% CONVENTIONAL!

Those Zetex motors are ALL 100% CONVENTIONAL too and there are NO
conversion tubes! You are NOT looking at the so-called "Gray Tube"
in any of the Zetex motors or "trigger cart". All those run on IGNATRONS
and draw
VERY HIGH AMPERAGE!!! They are WAY UNDER UNITY energy hogs.

I know who has possession of these motors you see in the videos.
All the original motors that may have been overunity systems were all
rewired and drastically changed to run totally conventionally and THAT
is what you see in the videos. This is ridiculous that you have the gall
to judge what John and I have said about the reverse diode as being
BS and you don't know how to properly research any of this and try to
tell me how those motors are working in the videos.

You should conduct some proper research first before insulting myself
or John and disrupting this thread with your uninformed opinions and giving
analysis of machines that you don't even know the history of.

[Guest]

The thought, that we might pit our technologies against the Aether
in order to utilize this new source of fuel. It would seem that it
is much like opening a portal in the quantum dimension whereby a
volume of energy resides.

The capacitive energy is waiting to be released moreso I think than
that of a storage medium designed to hold many amps such as the standard
12v battery. The pull must be so great in order to arc the (+) pole
over a 1KV gap that the only logical conclusion is that current from
the battery crosses through a quantum portal manifesting as a cloud of
aether between the electrodes.

When the HV is directed at the LV, it will see a path to ground and
then instantly have velocity in the other direction caused of course
by the diode closing. The energy of the 12V is pulled into crossing
the gap with the HV and then has no choice but to collect with the aether
onto the (-) pole.

The interesting difference I see here is with the plasma ignition method,
energy is bounced onto the pickup only, bypassing the route taken against
the HV capacitors as it happens by Magratten's postulation.

In order to rectify this, why not have a dual anode configuration, LV rod
pointed at LV rod, then the plasma signal used on one while the pickup
surrounds the other?

[Aaron]

quantum potential

Geotron,

I think almost any configuration works if the principles are applied.

There is the "arc stretching" part of the puzzle that Mark McKay discusses
and that he is probably the only one that is going that route.

Anyway, the sharp gradients violate conventional thermodynamics. With
a capacitance discharge with the reverse diode effect, the cap isn't going to
have a discharge with any more of a sharp gradient that it does with this
effect.

This is not the same as a disruptive discharge in the conventional sense but
it is very disruptive. A peaking cap on an ignition coil by itself is a more
conventional disruptive discharge but nothing like this reverse diode effect.

An inductive spike coming off a coil's collapse is a sharp gradient too.

These all cause very sharp potential differences that bring in
more energy from the vacuum or I should say bring in more potential
that has become energetic. That extra potential is added to the
Heaviside flow that is flowing over the circuit, which can cause more
magnetism than what was caused by the source dipole (capacitors) itself.

So I agree totally with you - the sharp gradients are short repetitive
portals that allows more potential to enter the circuit and become energetic
doing work above and beyond what left the source.

[Guest]

mutagenic circuitry

I'm unfamiliar as of yet with the concept of arc stretching, and Mark
Mckay's work in general; very interesting...

With all of this now brought into the light for me, I've included a new
updated version of where I think this project ought to be heading. I'm
not going to acclaim it as being a workable design yet, not having tried
it with my system now again in peices waiting to be rebuilt.

Anyway it shows the two LV cap banks waiting to be popped together by
the plasma ignition. I've seen in the past that with the ground right
-on- the output, the capacitive energy crossing the gap will still work
to bounce the coil; my reason for having the ground connection right at
the primary LV side.

I'm thinking it will absorb the HV plasma straight off, and with it then out
of the equasion the HV diode bank will snap those two 1KV caps together and
back to the battery while the motor coil gets bumped on the way in like
fashion as shown by Gray.

Pending approval, this is the direction in which I will recommence my efforts.

[Aaron]

@Geotron

Hi Geotron,

Please don't wait for my approval or anyone else's.

Go with your gut feeling.

If anyone wants to try to replicate exactly what I did, then I'd object.
But you already seem to have done that at least to the point to see the
effect is real and it works to power a motor based on the concepts I shared,
which are of course my interpretation of the Gray patents.

You already have a good feel for what you're doing - I'd love to see what
you come up with - please share the results!

In reality, you can keep extrapolating the concept up to 20 points
probably as long as the principle of the mixing is there. Looking forward
to your tests!

[nat1971a]

Hi guys,

I have been doing some more testing with the gray circuit. For those who don't know me i have been tinkering with this for a few years now. And i recently starting retesting my thyratrons again and guess what it works heaps better. You guys are wasting your time with the diode on the LV side of the circuit.

I have replaced the diode on the LV side with the thyratron exactly as the patent states with the grid connected to a circuit i smashed together.

No sparking to or from grids (just as FreeUKpower specified earlier in this thread) and I get a voltage reading on the C2 capacitor connected to the load and i can feel the magnetic field in the load inductor. And yes the carbon resistor increases the voltage reading on the C2 capacitor

ha ha

Cheers
Nat

[Aaron]

@Nat

Go ahead and post diagrams, pics and videos to show your experiments.