Gray Tube Replication

[Guest]

energy collision

Lately I've been revisiting my previous experiments with using
the basic concept of colliding potentials. It is taking shape as
the following diagram shows, and there are still other modifications
not yet implemented - the inductor coil for one, having the
cathode of the opposing capacitor connected onto the other perhaps...

This is in addition to my work on building a system resembling the
one patented by E.Gray.

[ video - colliding potentials ] [ video frame grab ]

[penno64]

Guys,

I have been following this thread for a while.

I am just unsure what the Gray tube is meant to do for us.

Would someone be kind enough to explain its purpose please.

Kindest Regards, Penno

[Spokane1]

The Down Side of the CSET

Guys,

I have been following this thread for a while.

I am just unsure what the Gray tube is meant to do for us.

Would someone be kind enough to explain its purpose please.

Kindest Regards, Penno

Dear penno64,

A number of well qualified non-funded researchers have faithfully explored the technology that was suggested in Gray's 1986 patents and the novel proposals found in Peter Lindemann's Book "The Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity". It has been almost a decade and several dozen variations of this concept have been built but the hoped for "radiant energy" has not been found. (at least not disclosed)

The interesting work that Aaron and his colleges on this thread are doing is a huge variation from the patent materials and should be considered a valid exploration subject in its own right.

The detailed history of the CSET is far more grim and disappointing than most free-energy researchers want to face.

The three so called CSET's that appeared on the EMA6 Free Energy Engine in Jan 9, 1976 were a far cry from the design presented in 1986, Even so these devices were removed from that Engine four months later because they apparently didn't work as planned. That Engine only produce 2 HP at first. It took at least a years to make it work right and that was without the CSET's.

The only other CSET constructed by Gray after that was the one displayed in the 1986 promotion video. In an interview with Mark Gray (E.V. Gray's son working with him at the time) it can be easily determined that the effort was a fake and just a means to provide video footage for his sales campaign.

There are a lot of other facts and circumstances that prove to me that the CSET started out (in 1973) as a means of HV switching in an attempt to eliminate the power hungry Thyratrons. But, it didn't work out, and then became a prop for bogus demonstrations.

Don't get me wrong, The overall Gray Technology is vastly powerful and just short of pure magic. It appears (to me)that the non-classical process does indeed take place within an arc - just not the one contained within the CSET. The anomalous particles do not appear to exit the conductors at 90 degrees, but flow according to their own rules like classical electrons contained within the wires.

This is my personal assessment from a long and detailed study of the available documentation and the testimony of a number of first hand players. If there is anyone who has a different view, based upon validated history, I would certainly like to discuss the issue with them in detail.

If you want to mess around with HV light shows and interesting looking setups then the CSET and a Neon Sign transformer are the place to go. The equipment is cheap and you can pretend that you are going to solve the world's energy problems all day long. If you are really interested in a reverse engineered solution to the actual E.V.Gray technology then you are in for a very long and difficult road (plan on at least 10 years). There is just not that much left for us to go on. But, a few things have shaken out of the tree recently.

Mark McKay, PE

[Spokane1]

Colliding Currents - Speculation

Thank you for your confidence Mr. Mckay. I've purported in my previous
report to be colliding potentials only by the use of a switch and the building
blocks of two standard capacitor charging circuits, for which I might
ask your opinion of if you'd be willing to share.

In this particular area I have not done further experiments yet to find out
some important things like whether having the output connected to a battery
will serve to collect energy. There are some other modifications to be had
as well that may continue to hold my interest.

Dear geotron,

It is funny that you should ask about colliding potentials at this point in time.

For the past 4 months I have been examining the construction details of the EMA4 Free Energy Engine as it is presented in the EMA0 mock up model that I received just before Christmas. For those of you who don't know the EMA0 is a small 3" model mock up of the EMA4 composed of about 200 custom machined aluminum parts. If you read the 1973 Jack Sacagnetti's Article (which is in Peter's Book "The Free Energy Secrets of Cold Electricity") you will see a photo of it there.

Anyway, looking at the construction of the model and some of the figures in the Pulse Engine patent it is almost 85% certain that the rotor was wired in a "Delta" configuration. Which is no big deal if you are working with three-phase AC induction motors, not DC pulse systems. In this topology the apex of the three points of the delta triangle are brought out to the rotating discs in the front of the EMA4 commutator. There are two sections to the complex commutator. The rotor is connected to the front most section that (according to the patent) only contains three discs. It appears that all three discs are designed to make contact at the same time with different storage capacitors.

Now wither energy is flowing into or out of the engine it appears that classical current has to be flowing in both directions at these apex points. If you draw the schematic you can see the novel situation. If this were a solid copper connection then the classical electrons would probably just sit there because the ideal voltage drop across the node would be zero. However, in a plasma arc there are charge carriers of both polarities available, thus current can flow bidirectionally (or so I think).

Anyway, I haven't got this figured out and I'm going to have to do a series of experiments to get my hands around this hardwired process.

In your setup you are using capacitors to provide the bidirectional energy source. I hope you can observe something interesting. In the Cole EMA4 Free Energy Engine he used (or appears to have used) charged inductors that are collapsing and thus act as current sources (not voltage sources). The voltage drop across the arc, once it has been struck, is probably pretty low. My initial SPICE simulations show about 46 volts. So really after the initial spark has established a conductive plasma the ongoing reaction becomes a current phenomena.

Richard Hackenberger was claimed to have said that the non-classical process took place inside the front commutator chamber. I certainly can't doubt him, but that means (or strongly hints) that some kind of anomalous "something" has been created and can be stored for a brief period before it is used to be converted into torque.

I really don't think that the torque was developed in the front commutator section because those discs were not strong enough to handle the 87 HP of torque- especially during a brief arc event.

AT the moment, the best working model is, "something" odd was created in one cycle, then utilized in a following cycle. There is a strong possibility that a separate subsystem harvested collateral electrostatic energy to recharge the storage capacitors after the anomalous "something" was used to produce the huge amounts of torque. It is not a simple process, or so it appears to me.

If the torque generated was strictly created from magnetic repulsion then the effective field intensity would have to be at least 3-4 orders of magnitude greater than the same amount of classical electricity and produce no heat. The thing is, the pulse motor design is a very poor way to generate torque, all of the forces are radial except where there is some angular difference between the opposing fields. In this engine design this angle doesn't get very big (about 6 degrees) therefore a whole lot of force has to be created that is wasted on excessive strain on the bearings to get these huge HP outputs.

I have no doubt that huge repulsion effects were generated. Marvin Cole developed a device that was going to be offered as a replacement for a military field mortar (maybe 55mm). Forget all the bogus crap that Gray was peddling in the 80's with his plastic core popping coils. This viable device was constructed in the late 60's and said to be the size of a coffee table. I doubt that Cole would have built a device that large with out some smaller and then larger proof of principle devices first. So, I assumed it worked and probably worked well.

If there were some anomalous particle running around the coils of the Military Mortar device (as well as the Free-Energy Engine electromagnets) then these particles would have to stay confined in the conductors and not radiate out at 90 degrees. Never-the-less these systems seemed to have worked some how.

If we ever figure out how to created these anomalous particles the next challenge is going to be how to figure out how to store them briefly. One very knowledgeable fully funded Free Energy researcher claims that capacitors will destroy the anomalous particles - which needs to be proved but certainly is worth keeping in mind. Then how did Cole do it? Consider the unknown function of the "Floating Flux Field". This appears to be a collection of 18 each 10' ft sections of RG-11 coax in the EMA4-E1 and then 20' sections of RG-8 in the EMA4-E2. They may have been using these cables as a delay line as a means to store these "somethings". But this is far from being proven.

Now the EMA6 Engine doesn't appear to have a "Floating Flux Field" assembly and it didn't work either. I suspect that the delay line was hidden in the bottom of those large capacitor cans or within the engine housing (If there was one). But this is pure speculation on my part.


Now concerning the Battery,

So far my research and copious speculations indicate that it was a vital component in the Electrostatic harvest process. There was no way to get rid of the wet cell batteries that provided the huge reserve of low energy charge carriers. I suspect that this part of the system was straight classical engineering. Now the method in which the huge electrostatic charge was generated in the first place was part of the anomalous particle conversion to torque process.


I have written a 400 page book on this subject with all the photos, drawings, testimony, time lines, schematics, and wild speculations that covers all these ideas and more. When Peter gets the time to edit the document it will be released in an electronic color PDF format. This won't happen for a couple more months. That will give me time to add additional information on the Gold Pulse Motor and the Hackenberger power supply.

Keep up the good work, experiments is where its all at. Speculations will only help determine our experimental protocols and what parts to buy next.

[nat1971a]

This post is for those who decide to perform a replication.

Be prepared to break your thyratron. My circuit wouldn't work anymore until i replaced the thyratron.

[Guest]

Interestingly when connecting an scr on either side to short out the
one capacitor on the left and supplying it with 5k of 120v through a
6a diode it refuses to stay off and the stream of energy becomes
continuous. The wattage reading went over 1K on the inverter, and
the battery immediatly floated up past 12.9 v when disconnected; upon
returning to experiment with it had gone over the specific threshold
of the shorted side and was then acting to induct rather than direct,
blasting out the battery without charging up.

[nat1971a]

@mark mckay

Have you ever come across any details on the model of the thyratron that gray was using?

It would appear that it needs to be very heavy duty to handle the voltages.

The one i have been using can't handle it and is easily broken. But it could be that i am just abusing it too much too or not tuned correctly.

I have seen some pictures which i assume was a thyratron and it appeared to be quite large if that was what it was. So again i guess it needs to be industrial heavy duty.

Cheers
Nat

[Guest]

The three frames shown here are in sequence. I'm still wondering about
how to properly connect the SCR diode gate into working correctly... it must
be a matter of having it in the voltage potential flow of the other localized
components... ?

It seems clear that this is a more robust form of energy than the standard
capacitive arc.

[Spokane1]

Thyratrons and the E.V. Gray technology

@mark mckay

Have you ever come across any details on the model of the thyratron that gray was using?

It would appear that it needs to be very heavy duty to handle the voltages.

The one i have been using can't handle it and is easily broken. But it could be that i am just abusing it too much too or not tuned correctly.

I have seen some pictures which i assume was a thyratron and it appeared to be quite large if that was what it was. So again i guess it needs to be industrial heavy duty.

Cheers
Nat

Dear Nat,

I wish I could come across photos that would disclose that level of detail about the early circuits (or the more modern ones for that fact). But, such is not our fortune.

But, despair not, In my reverse engineering efforts it appears to me that in that part of the system you are dealing with classical electron flow. The good news is that the current levels are not that high, say 200 Amps max.
How do I know that? Well consider Gray's 4th patent and the big deal he makes over the shunt diode in parallel with the storage capacitor. Then review the same shunt diode in the "Converter Element Switching Tube" (CSET) patent.

That shunt diode allows the current to flow through what ever inductor he had it connected to for as long as the Thyratron conducts, since once the thyratron is triggered it stays latched on.

He had to have an arc that would last up to 8 milliseconds. When you do the simulations with these sort of parameters the pulse current is between 45 and 165 Amps. Now to mention it is a relatively slow DC process. In my calculations I'm suing both 5 uF and 12 uF storage capacitors.

Therefore, any Thyratron with a PIV greater than 5KV and a forward pulse current of 200 Amps will work fine, in my professional opinion.

That little octal thyratron you displayed a few posts is not up to the current levels needed. I suspect that if you check the specs on that particular device you would be lucky to have a component that could switch 1 Amp. If you want to use a thyratron then you are going to have to pony up the $50+ and go on eBay and see what you can find. They are there and are still used in certain industrial applications, including medium power radar systems.

But why use a power hungry Thyratron? You have to have a huge isolation transformer (at least rated for 7.5 KV) for the heater and that heater can draw 50-100 watts of continuous power. Then you have to have all that thermionic energy available to pass the current pulse for a 1% duty cycle.

Cole was doing his work in the late 60's. We are 50 years beyond that. I'm going to use high current motor control SCR's. Unless you can come up with a good reason to employ thyratrons. Now when we get to the part of the circuit that generates the anomalous particles our engineering principles will change accordingly. But in the initial excitation of the pulse transformer we have lots of room to modernize.

Mark McKay, PE

[nat1971a]

Hi mark

Thanks for the reply. That's a shame we don't have any more leads in this regard. Having seen what I have seen I think I am starting to realize what the thyratron represents in terms of teslas work and development from 1892 to 1901. In my opinion it represents the primary spark gap in teslas radiant energy patent. I think I will test magnetically quenching the thyratron

Cheers
Nat

[nat1971a]

Mark,

The only tangible evidence i have to date is the voltage jump (from 50volts to 150-450volts) in the charging capacitor 38 when inserting the carbon block into the circuit. But it doesnt take a genious to realise what that means. We all know what Gray was working with in terms of cold electricity. Unfortunately i didnt get time to capture this on video.

If you can explain this in conventional physics i am willing to hear it. But otherwise i will continue on with testing.

In all the tests i have done the carbon block with holes drilled in it has made no obvious difference till now. My understanding of it is that it purifies the aetheric current somehow.

Regards,
Nat

[Spokane1]

The Magic Arc

Hi mark

Thanks for the reply. That's a shame we don't have any more leads in this regard. Having seen what I have seen I think I am starting to realize what the thyratron represents in terms of teslas work and development from 1892 to 1901. In my opinion it represents the primary spark gap in teslas radiant energy patent. I think I will test magnetically quenching the thyratron

Cheers
Nat

Dear Nat,

Exploring the effects of a magnetically quenched Thyratron should keep you out of trouble for the rest of the Summer, but let me pass on a few tid bits for your consideration as you search for gold in those Tesla and Gray arcs.

Take a second look at those 1892-1893 Dr. Tesla lectures and see if you can pick up on important details that have been over looked for 120 years.

I suppose you have already studied the two illustrations that show the different apparatus that was employed in the magnetic quenching process. Have you noticed that the pole faces in the 1982 lecture were protected with mica sheets? Why did the master do this? According to the text it was to protect the metal face of the magnets used. Now how did the arc manage to make its way from the center line of the arc chute to the pole face? Of course the impact of the orthogonal magnetic field distorted the normal arc path and cause it to migrate to the pole face. In the process it was physically STRETCHED from its normal confirmation.

Not only that, but it was drug across the surface of a dielectric during the time it took to stretch the plasma to the point where it would quench. And all of this was done in atmosphere at STP. All three of these parameters are present in the E.V.Gray technology.

Also in the 1892 lecture Dr. Tesla discloses what kind of power supply he used. Low and behold a CONSTANT CURRENT generator with an open circuit voltage capable of drawing a short arc (lets say 15KV)in parallel with a SMALL capacitor. Have you ever modeled the waveform for a capacitor in parallel with a current source? Don't feel bad no one else has either. It is just the combination of a standard capacitor current discharge with a constant current tail. BUT, that additional current has a huge impact on the plasma physics involved. You won't find much technical information on this subject in typical books about gaseous conductors, However you will find it in books on high voltage switchgear.

So there you have it the four parameters that are common to Dr. Tesla's early radiant energy work and what Marvin Cole was doing with the E.V. Gray technology.

1. A Unidirectional DC pulse Arc

2. That is physically stretched with the addition of mechanical energy (a strong magnetic field is one way, but Dr. Tesla quickly moved to mechanical rotation)

3. Is drug across the surface of a suitable dielectric

4. In air at SPT or as high as 1/2 p.s.i.

5. Is provided with an energy profile that supplies a constant current near the end of the discharge.

The final parameter (for those that I think I know) is the RF burst. When a constant current source is disrupted across an inductance, like the primary of Dr. Tesla's transformers there is an RF oscillation that is created. This reflects back to the electrodes of the spark gap as an RF electrostatic decaying sine wave with a substantial potential (but not high enough to re strike the arc). The frequency of this burst needs to be tuned to the specific dielectric used, typically around 50 kHz.

When all these parameters are tuned just right (and I hope the window is wide enough to re-find it) something interesting happens that come out of that arc. I'm not sure what it is or which way it goes but it is this "SOMETHING" that appears to be responsible for all the anomalous properties observed in the Tesla and Gray Technologies.

The Imhotep people almost had it, but it appears they have not been able to nail down the required parameters well enough to get any sort of repeatability.

John Bedini doesn't use an arc but rather the P silicon crystal in his large audio transistors, which have to be manufactured just right to function (fewer than 10% of any model will work). The Magnitude of the RF burst that follows a shut off cycle determines the level of success with a particular transistor. His bifilar and trifilar coils act both as a high voltage source and a current source per the physics of induction coils. The magic is in the Transistor, but the coil has to be wound just-so in order to make it happen. His anomalous "somethings" have a profound impact on the formation of the lead matrix in his back end batteries. But, these "somethings" are a jealous mistress. If classical electron flow is one again applied to a battery that has been coddled with the anomalous somethings this sensitive and somewhat OU lead matrix is shattered beyond repair.

[The connection between an arc and P-doped silicon is a massive matrix of positive ions with very few electrons across a large voltage gradiant]

It appears that the Tesla and the E.V. Gray technology were able to produce these somethings in huge amounts as compared to the transistor approach.


Anyway, have fun with the magnetically quenched Thyratron experiments, but keep in mind:

1. The Thyratron is filled with a small amount of Mecury in a partial vacuum.

2. The arc distance is fixed, but will be stretched a little with the application of a large magnetic field.

3. There is no dielectric surface for the arc to be drug across, unless the arc is physically stretched enough to reach the glass envelope. And glass seems to work, at least for Ken Shoulders.

I don't know what you plan to use for a power supply or what kind of load you have in mind, so I can't comment on that.


I'm just using your proposed experiment as a contrasting example of the parameters I think that are important in the E.V. Gray technology. I have no intent in putting a damper on your research ideas or to explore with what you have at hand to work with. Best of Luck

May the Somethings be with you,

Mark McKay, PE

[Aaron]

increased voltage

The only tangible evidence i have to date is the voltage jump (from 50volts to 150-450volts) in the charging capacitor 38 when inserting the carbon block into the circuit. But it doesnt take a genious to realise what that means.

If you take a gas pressure and slam it against more resistance, you can
increase the pressure for a moment.

In a battery, if you have increased impedance from a shorted cell, you
can see 20, 30, 40, 50v+ in a 12v battery develop.

If you are creating a magnetic field in the inductor with the discharges,
that inductor will collapse at whatever frequency and will pump that c2
cap if that is what you're talking about to a higher voltage.

I'd suggest putting a scope across your load inductor - so far, I don't
see anything out of the ordinary but I hope I'm wrong.

I have also seen "anomalous" happenings with my circuits where I use
the backwards diode. I mean straight up apparent gains in the mechanical
pulse - not just voltage effects.

[Spokane1]

The Backward Diode

I

I have also seen "anomalous" happenings with my circuits where I use
the backwards diode. I mean straight up apparent gains in the mechanical
pulse - not just voltage effects.

Dear Aaron,

Come to think of it your backward diode circuit is very similar to Bedini's transistor in the reversed bias condition when the blocking oscillator changes state.

For a brief moment you probably very well could be producing a few of the "Something's". There probably is a whole range of variables that need to be explored to optimize the effect. To bad we don't have an instrument or even an agreed upon protocol established to measure these anomalous particles and see incremental improvements as we change circuit variables.

I wonder if these particles have anything to do with the green arc effect? After all, the inclusion of that series inductor could excite (or modify) the RF burst I was talking about or at least change its frequency.

I'm glad you mentioned your work in the context of this evening's discussion. It adds yet another possibility to seriously consider as we search for solutions to this lost technology.

Your circuit might be a lot simpler and more direct (and cheaper) than the Bedini circuit and you employ an arc as well. I wonder if the two P ion matrices re-enforce each other? Certainly something for some one to look into. The first improvement I would make would be to provide a DC pulse with a long and near constant current tail rather that the discharge of a capacitor alone. But that is just my unproven technical speculation. (with some historical base)

Thanks again for bringing this point up. I shall have to ponder upon it further. Even a low power setup that could generate just a small flux of these critters could certainly help us in establishing some of their unknown physics. I wonder if HV diodes are as random in their non-classical performance as John has discovered with his commercial transistors?

Mark

[Spokane1]

The Bogus Capacitor #38

Mark,

The only tangible evidence i have to date is the voltage jump (from 50volts to 150-450volts) in the charging capacitor 38 when inserting the carbon block into the circuit. But it doesnt take a genious to realise what that means. We all know what Gray was working with in terms of cold electricity. Unfortunately i didnt get time to capture this on video.

Regards,
Nat

Dear Nat,

Consider that the component in question (#38) was not a capacitor. Yes it looked like a large oil filled capacitor. Yes it was called a capacitor, Yes it was made by a company that makes custom capacitors. And Yes, it apparently solved the problem of the exploding batteries by modifying some kind of huge current or voltage pulses that was applied to them.

But consider a SPICE IV simulation of the entire CSET circuit. We are working with DC pulses that are quenched after the end of each cycle. These pulses are non zero crossing (because of the shunt diode). The circuit will fire once then component #38 (if it is a true capacitor) will hold the charge, because there is no place for it to discharge to. The next pulse will not happen because the potential difference is no longer sufficient to allow a break down of the arc.

Everyone has to come up with a work-around to get their circuits to function in a continuous mode.

Anyway, there are several circumstantial security reasons to consider as to why component #38 was something other than a straight capacitor. I'm sure it had a capacitor in it but I propose that it was a high power low pass filter made to look like a capacitor and was probably labeled as a capacitor. All of Gray's capacitors were custom made by a vendor in Thousand Oaks,CA that makes Pulse forming Networks, High and Low pass filters, and all other kinds of custom power passive circuits that are housed in large square oil filled cans with two insulators on them. He paid the piper (paid the bill) he could call the shots as to what was printed on the label. (By the way they are still in business and you can buy a replication capacitor that was used on the Gold Pulse Motor for only $450 each)

Consider the fact that he had absolutely no patent protection for this technology until July of 1976, and even then he didn't patent the good stuff. Any technique that could hide yet another feature of this technology was employed. Besides, the EMA4-E1 didn't need pulse protection for the batteries. It was when Hackengerger attempted to retro-fit that engine to become the EMA4-E2 that the exploding battery situation became an issue. So the original 32 HP Free-Energy system worked just fine with out component #38 - regardless of what it was or wasn't.

I'm certainly not going to hang my hat on the idea, or the disclosed patent miss-information, as to the true nature of component #38 as represented in a cobbled schematic.

Series capacitors only function as a current limiters in AC systems, not DC systems.

Just a perspective to consider.

Mark McKay, PE