Gray Tube Replication

[nat1971a]

mark,

are you able to advise the model/ratings on the bridge rectifier that Gray was using? I keep destroying mine!!

Cheers
Nat

[Spokane1]

Rectifiers used in the e.V. Gray Technology

mark,

are you able to advise the model/ratings on the bridge rectifier that Gray was using? I keep destroying mine!!

Cheers
Nat

Dear Nat,

There were at least two rectifier systems used in the E.V. Gray Technology.

1) The rectifiers used to generate the 3000 VDC. The ones used in the last dual power supply ever built (For the blue engine) appear to be 5000V PIV at about 3 Amp. These were solid state units in a standard 4 diode bridge configuration. Two seperate bridges were used for the two HV outputs.

2)The pulse diode that was used in shunt (parallel) with the storage capacitor has never been disclosed or photographed. Its PIV would have to be larger than the 3KV charge on the storage capacitor. I would guess something between 5-10 KV. Its forward current rating would depend upon the amount of series inductance in the discharge loop. It appears to me that the "Minor" electromagnet served this purpose. My reproduction electromagnet has a value of about 850 uH, but that seems to be not enough.

In my bench top experiments I use an industrial motor control dual diode module rated at 1600 PIV at 375 Amps. With both diodes wired in series I get a PIV of around 3200 V, which is a little low for this application. This diode cost me $15.00 at a surplus store in Portland, OR.

With SPICE IV a loop inductance of 6 mH simulates a forward current of around 10 Amps, which greatly reduces the size of the pulse diode needed if this is the way it originally was intended to work.

If the series inductance is to high (and I think the 6 mH is to high) then the output voltage of the transformer drops way off and the arc only lasts about 200-400 microseconds. It is a trade off that has to be worked out. I can certainly see why Gray's developers used open core transformers since they are much harder to saturate under pulse conditions.

I believe that the series loop resistance was needed to prevent the core of the 'Major' electromagnet from saturating. I have had some real problems with that. Normally, transformer saturation is not a problem in many applications, but with large low impedance pulses from a capacitor it becomes a huge issue. Once the core salturates the inductance dissapears and the transformer acts as a short circuit. The resulting current pulse goes through the roof in the 300-500 amp region.

I don't believe this is what we want. Such large current pulses only last about 50 microseconds or less. I think we need much longer burn times for our arc. (But I could be very wrong).

I doubt that in 1973 that high current diodes could have fit into the enclosure of the EMA4-E1, not 12 of them at least. I'm sure 350 Amps diodes were available, but they would have been pretty expensive.

I think that when we get things worked out with the proper size series inductance we will only need 100Amps or so diodes.

Mark McKay

[nat1971a]

thanks for the reply mark,

i destroyed my 15kv 6amp diodes on the weekend and my ignition coil. the diodes were really expensive so i am puzzled by this happening!!

[nat1971a]

Mark,

This 300-500 amp pulse could be what was charging the battery. I wouldnt discount it.

Well i did manage to test my theory of syncronized cap shorting and commutator (in conjunction with thyratron) and as expected it didnt work. This was before i broke the diodes & ignition coil. I would still like to test that with a diode instead of a thyratron however. The reason why i have been testing this is because i realized that the charge battery's were charging after i made my cap shorting video. They charged really high but didnt hold the charge.

Cheers
Nat

[Spokane1]

Automotive Ignition Coils in E.V. Gray Technology

thanks for the reply mark,

i destroyed my 15kv 6amp diodes on the weekend and my ignition coil. the diodes were really expensive so i am puzzled by this happening!!

Dear Nat,

Under the right conditions automotive ignition coils can generate short output voltage pulses in the 60KV range. That is if it is a new high quality coil with low parasitic capacitance. This kind of output will toast a 15KV diode in short order.

Really Nat, I don't think that automotive igntion coils were used in the E.V. Gray technology. A typical ignition coil has a winding ratio of 1:100. A high performance coil will go as high as 1:200.

True, Dr. Chalphin described the first stage power transformer as being an automotive ignition coil - but I don't think they were wound the same way. The target output voltage was 3KV, not 60KV. The company that was hired to do the fabrication of these custom coils was directed to provide high voltage insulation for the secondary.

It is also true that a high voltage was developed (around 15KV) to provide the anomalous arc process, however that took place on the secondary side of the transformer formed by the "Major" electromagnet, so it was well isolated form the diode that was in shunt with the storage capacitor. This secondary high voltage didn't employ a diode, so there was no problem with diode destruction from over-voltage.

It appears that the purpose of the shunt diode is to provide a long DC pulse to the primary of the "Major" Electromagnet. What happens after that is anybodies guess.

Mark

[Spokane1]

E.V.Gray Battery Charging Pulses

Mark,

This 300-500 amp pulse could be what was charging the battery. I wouldnt discount it.

Well i did manage to test my theory of syncronized cap shorting and commutator (in conjunction with thyratron) and as expected it didnt work. This was before i broke the diodes & ignition coil. I would still like to test that with a diode instead of a thyratron however. The reason why i have been testing this is because i realized that the charge battery's were charging after i made my cap shorting video. They charged really high but didnt hold the charge.

Cheers
Nat

Dear Nat,

I have no doubt that this was indeed the case. If you follow the circuit laid out in the "Coil Popping" photos you can see how the primary of the "Major" electromagnet feed right back through the battery to recapture some energy.

Keep in mind that the main output of this technology was not classical electricity but rather torque. In the 87.5 HP model only 20% of the total OU was recycled in the form of classical electricity. The rest was all torque.

Mark McKay

[AgnesCornell]

CD duplicating

What company has a cheap price duplicating CD's? Recommendation needed.. Thanks!

[Wicaksono]

unusual effects of gray motor

Hello everyone, I'd like to address some unusual effects of gray motor. Number 1 is in the Cannady Interview; it is said that when the motor runs there is something like electrostatic force comes out from the motor. Number 2 is in Mark Gray interview; he said that they have to use special silicone filled cable because ordinary cable insulation is easily destroyed by cold electricity. Is there anyone knows & has more information about these unusual effects ? As far as I know there is no one that have been investigating about it. Thanks !

[Spokane1]

Insulation destruction by "Cold Electricity"

Hello everyone, I'd like to address some unusual effects of gray motor. Number 1 is in the Cannady Interview; it is said that when the motor runs there is something like electrostatic force comes out from the motor. Number 2 is in Mark Gray interview; he said that they have to use special silicone filled cable because ordinary cable insulation is easily destroyed by cold electricity. Is there anyone knows & has more information about these unusual effects ? As far as I know there is no one that have been investigating about it. Thanks !

Dear Wicaksono,

An interesting observation made by Mr. Cannady adds additonal information about this phenomena. His comments were from a follow up phone conversation made after the interview tape was transcribed, so these facts didn't show up in the written report.

Mr. Cannady claims that he observed E.V. Gray rewinding a drill motor whose conductors had become degraded through exposure to "Cold Electricity". A short conversation followed in which Mr. Gray described additional details about the corrosive action that this new kind of energy rendered on to dielectrics. It was a problem that had not been solved at the time but solutions were being searched for. This process may account for the many breakdowns of the EMA4-E2 Free Energy Engine.

Mr. Cannady thought that it was this destructive aspect of this energy that was responsible forthis technology never reaching the market. This was not the case but it shows that the magnitude of this concern was strong enough to consider it as the downfall of tihs discovery.

I'm sure that Mr. Hackenberger was well aware of this problem. His design of the EMA6 greatly reduced the length and number of conductors exposed to the "Cold Electricity". He employed PM magnets for the rotor so this completly elminated the common rotor failure problems. By the time the EMA7 (aka the Blue Engine) was designed he had reduced the overall volume of the engine by 50%. This would also reduce the remaining overall surface area of conductors exposed to the destructive energy carriers. By this time (1979) the silicone filled conductors became avaliable or were found to offer greater resistance to the breakdown.

If Cold Electricity is really some form of "Charge Cluster" then the destruction can easily be understood. This will be one more engineering challenge to be solved once a circuit is developed that can reliably generate enough of these particles to be observed and measured.

Mark McKay

[nat1971a]

Mark,

How are your experiments going? We never hear much about what you are doing.....

Cheers
Nat

[Wicaksono]

insulation destruction by "something"

Hello Mr. McKay, a new unearthed information indeed ! It turns out that insulation degradation, whether of cable insulation or copper wire insulation is a generalized effect of cold electricity. As far as I know there are several causes of degradation : heat, ozone, and ultraviolet. Since you work with Tyco, which is a major cable distributor, is there any way to determine what is the cause of degradation, on the assumption that it is ordinary electric, not cold electric ? I see that Mark Gray did not mention any details about cable degradation.

[Spokane1]

On Going Experimentation

Mark,

How are your experiments going? We never hear much about what you are doing.....

Cheers
Nat

Dear Nat,

Let me share with you a recent breakthrough thought. As you know I have been proposing the stretched arc concept as the source of the OV in the E.V. Gray technology, well that idea doesn’t explain the need for two power supplies or the two large storage capacitors in this technology. So I decided to put that concept aside for a while and consider other ideas that might cover more of the holes in this data base.

It is well know that the overall process is of generation, storage, and utilization - in at least three steps. An arc is the primary source of generation – but which one? There are three candidates in the EMA4 design. Where are these anomalous particles stored? Most likely in the Delay lines (Floating Flux Field)- if so then how do they get from the arc to the storage location from the circuit diagram that was disclosed in the Pulse Engine Patent?

Something is missing (most likely taken out) – What was it? Of course is was the arc that generated the anomalous particles. That means that the polarity of the second power supply has to be changed and a gap added between the two storage capacitors rather than having them tied to ground as shown in the pulse engine patent. Other configurations are possible but this proposal has historical value when comapred to other Free Energy Technolgy concepts along these lines.

In the EMA4 Pulse Engine there are two different modes of operation as determined form the contacts in the commutator. If you look at the relationship between the control contacts and the position of the rotor electromagnets you can easily see that two differnent functions are being accomplished at two different times. One condifuration is when the "Major" electromagnets are directly opposed to each other. At this position energy is applied to the opposing Rotor and Stator Coils at zero degrees. This position generates absolutly no torque reguardless of how much force is generated between the electromagnets since there is no differnace in the opposing angles of the magnetic fields. Some other important purpose was going on at this time.

So now we have two opposing (most likley attracting) electromagnets in series with two large capacitors with a gap inbetween this series network of components. This circuit now resembles the Radio Transmitters developed by Sir Oliver Lodge and Marconi. If you do a Wikipida search of "Wireless Telegraphy" there is a reproduced Tesla circuit that is the exact duplication of the proposed circuit - including the gap between the two inductors.

I have research these early Spark Radio circuits, but no one has done a complete circuit analysis of these kinds of circuits - that I've fpound. The purpose of this additional gap has not been explained. According to classical analysis only one gap should be need in a series loop circuit. I believe that there was a co-process involved that has been lost. Today people look at thse circuits with modern technical theories and apply RLC formulas to explain their assumed operation. I think there was more to it than that

When the missing arc and opposing coils are added to the partially disclosed schematic in the Pulse engine patent you immediately end up with a circuit that is 90% of what Dr. Tesla was using in 1892 for the first demonstration of Wireless telegraphy and is very close to the Prentice Circuit from 1925.

The big difference between these older circuits and the E.V.Gray technology is the kind of power supply used. Dr. Tesla use a classical Induction coil. Marvin Cole used two pulsed DC power supplies that were tied in series. Why two? Higher voltage perhaps, nah, something more important was at stake.

Supposing those power supplies were operating at slightly different pulse widths? That means that the full potential of the combined series voltage would be strobed to either turn on or turn off in a much quicker time frame. I have yet to see what this actually looks like in a simulation but it sure explains the need for two power supplies. But there may be other important engineering reasons.

The Hackenberger supply for the Blue Engine has two separate pulse width IC chips. If this were a simple Dual HV power supply you would only need one – not two. So there is more to this power supply than what I originally thought.

So I’m going to be digging into this concept for a while.

Experiments:

My present setup is intended to learn about the function of this series loop of two large capacitors, two opposing (or attacting) inductors, a common mode, choke, with a gap between them.

At the moment the capacitors are 5uF 5KV poly caps. The opposing coils are 23 mH each with solid iron cores 3/4" in diameter and 1-1/4" long. The gap is about 0.040". The "FFF" is a 8" coil of #14 AWG solid wire twin lead 4 layers x about 4". I have the delay parameters in my notes somewhere but I haven't dug them out yet. This whole setup is pulsed is driven by a third 5uf capacitor charged to 3000VDC. The pulse is supplied by means of a 12VDC contactor relay.

A small silent arc will take place on the first pulse, but not after that. The charge in the supply capacitor is divided between it self and the two series capacitors. At the end of the pulse the voltage on the supply capacitor drops to 1350 VDC while the series capacitors split that remaning voltage between themselves so that there is a charge of 675VDC on each. The max current pulse is observed to be around 63 Amps. The whole process is ringing at 4.3 KHz.

I'm sure that this is suppose to be a unidirectional process - so I have to get rid of the ringing by added additonal damping resistance. According to a SPICE IV simulation I need to add at least 200 Ohms - assuming the arc contributes about 100 Ohms. Of course this is a dynamic load and field adjustments will be needed. This will drop my peak current down to about 9 amps. - This doesn't seem right (just a gut feeling at this point).

The peak current is limited by the total loop inductance which is 46 mH. So how much inductance did Cole have in his opposing electromagnets? Now my first reproduction "Major" Electromagnet has a value of 3 mH using #20 AWG magnet wire and winding it 1:1 - I don't know what he had.

The Tesla notes from 1892 shows a primary with a lot fewer windings on his demonstration device than what I have. Even the Sir Oliver Lodge circuit doesn't have a lot of inductance. It seems that the LC values need to be adjusted to support the pulse width while the damping resistance inhibits oscillations. I supect that the generation of the proposed "Charge Clusters" requires a completely unidirectional current. AC is great for making Radio waves - but that is not what we are attempting to accomplish.

Hackenberger's "Electrostatic Generator" operated at 8 KHz. I suspect that this is the general duration of the pulses involved.

There is a trade off between the peak current and inductance. The Cole "Major" electromagnet had two windings. Once could have been used for particle generation and the other (or both) for torque generation at differnet times.

It seems that in the generation of the Charge Clusters a substantial axial magnetic field needs to be avaliable (in addition to fresh oxygen) - But hor strong? How mant Teslas are necessary for the reaction to occur? I'm sure there is some threashold that has to be acheived. Balancing the peak current with the inductance and damping resistance will require a lot of tests.

I would show you some photos of my equipment layout - but I have used up my photo storage limits on this web site.

Mark McKay

[nat1971a]

Mark,

I agree with you. Grays circuit is a wireless transmission circuit. This is why i have been reading up on old wireless transmission books many months ago. This was mainly on researching the thyratrons. Which was when it occured to me that grays circuit is definitely a wireless transmission circuit.

In one of the books i can't remember which one, you will need minimum 300ohms resistance for unidirectional pulses. This is why i am using 300ohm 200 watt resistors in my circuit.

Here's a link to some of these books.
Technical books online


Cheers,
Nat

[Spokane1]

Reference Books on Wireless Telegraphy

Mark,

I agree with you. Grays circuit is a wireless transmission circuit. This is why i have been reading up on old wireless transmission books many months ago. This was mainly on researching the thyratrons. Which was when it occured to me that grays circuit is definitely a wireless transmission circuit.

In one of the books i can't remember which one, you will need minimum 300ohms resistance for unidirectional pulses. This is why i am using 300ohm 200 watt resistors in my circuit.

Here's a link to some of these books.
Technical books online


Cheers,
Nat

Dear Nat,

That is one heck of a site for older scanned reference books especially the very last one on Mallory Vibrators. I recommend book marking that one. Marvin Cole used these devices in the EMA4 before Hackenberger upgraded to transistors. I'm sure both components work but the vibrators are probably more rugged in this environment. It is the design of the transformer that is important to pay attention to. It appears to me we need square wave pulses - not half-wave sine waves. I suspect that anything that can increase the dV/dt should be considered.

I reviewed the list and noticed that the information you need on early wireless spark transmitters did not seem to be present.

I had the good fortune to check out about 20 books on the subject of Wireless Telegraph from the University of Washington Engineering Library a few years ago. What I discovered was that after about 1908 the commentary on the theory of operation changes to the modern classical RLC concepts - which has its place and proper value. However, the theories and techniques documented before 1908 take on a different approach that seem more relavant to what we are doing with the E.V. Gray technology. Especially the German Telefunken design that employed zinc electrodes for the spark gap.

I didn't see any books on the recommended web site that were older than 1908, most of them didn't go beyond 1925 which is understandable since this web master is promoting vacuum tube technology.

I'm glad we see the same similiarities in this old Spark Radio technology.

Keep up on those Thyratron references. I'm convinced that the last Free Energy Engine ever built employed thyratrons as the master switching device. I don't think they were the source of the Charge Clusters but they provided precession switching so that the opposing fileds would be in proper alignment. I suspect that in that last Engine (the Blue Engine aka the EMA7) PM's were used for the rotor and electromagnets were strictly on the stator.

Mark McKay

[nat1971a]

Mark,

I believe it was this book. pages 39-50

Vacuum tubes in wireless communication : a practical textbook for operators and experimenters : Bucher, Elmer Eustice, 1885- : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

Cheers
Nat