Gray Tube Replication

[PRECURSOR]

This is a repost from a message in the Water Sparkplug thread where I posted my opinion on how the Gray Tube works...I still believe this is how the Gray Tube technology works:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...rkplug-53.html

How the spark circuit and Gray tube works
Hi Mario,

(Ash, would you be willing to include this entire post in your water spark plug document?)

That is pretty much it.

But I'm sticking to my guns on my explanation that seems to not fit well with some people.

The HV from the coil moves through the HV diode to the + of the low voltage source to ground back to itself...it seeks ground through the diode. That diode is open. When the HV is off, take a volt meter and put the neg on ground and + on the hv diode cathode/output. You will see that you can measure the low voltage side's voltage potential on the output of the diode because the diode is open.

Many people think the diode is automatically closed and won't let the hv through but that isn't true. That is the whole point that diodes have reverse ratings...and if the diodes were automatically always shut, then the low voltage from the annode/input could never get through.

Also, the diode closing is not instantaneous...it is fast, yes, but not instantaneous...once the hv moves through the hv diode...it takes a bit of time for it to get the reverse current through it in order to slam shut.

The HV potential, which is the voltage gas (it is a gas composed of "particles" smaller than a hydrogen atom - smaller than an electron - very, very small fractional charges - Mendeleev's original periodic table of elements showed some of this) has MOMENTUM.

As it is moving, the HV diode slams shut and the voltage potential with its momentum slams against the diode...compressing it more and more...now that re-compressed potential...which is expanded 90 degrees from the wire has to go somewhere...the only path to ground as of now is the gap on the plug. That un-condensed/expanded potential is what causes the primary effect of the cold plasma.

Then, when voltage on the cathode/output of the HV diode drops below the annode/input of the HV diode, then and only then can LV source move out of it and over the gap.

The lv source is not the cause of the effect, it simply can boost the primary effect - which can be had all by itself with one small cap that is virtually empty when discharged to the primary.

Primary effect is that potential slamming against a diode.

Many think the simple hv spark jumping a gap is enough to ionize the gap to reduce the resistance enough to have the lv source follow it...that is simply a fairytale.

Only the recompressed potential against the diode's abrupt shut off can cause the cold plasma ionization that is necessary to allow the lv source to follow. At this circuit's scale of operation, this is all necessary to make these effects.

This is a method of "splitting the positive" that Bedini has shown for years in the open but nobody really got it. If I am wrong, I apologize and will correct all my explanations but until then, that's my story and I'm sticking to it until proven wrong but following the logic of all this, it is very consistent with what Tesla explained, it is consistent with other technologies that utilize this concept, etc...

Working of the Gray Tube

This will put what I'm saying into context with something that many people have studied but I am not sure anyone gets it. Many are convinced in all the free electron concepts in the Gray Tube, etc... McGratten mailed me a package about 7 years ago with that explanation but I always saw it happening in a different way.

The Gray Tube has a low voltage rod and high voltage rod. Low voltage rod has a diode on it that has the cathode/emitter pointed towards the gap. Low voltage source can be any low voltage source and Gray showed he used a 12v battery...the neg of that battery is connected to the neg of the HV capacitor at 3000-4000 volts and a few uf's. The + of the hv source goes to the hv rod.

(-)12vdc(+)diode->(gap)(+)3000vdc(-)

I have made the Gray tube analogy to the spark method and most have automatically thought that they look at 2 gaps and think they serve the same purpose. I'll show you why the 2 gaps have nothing to do with each other but why they are making the same effect. It is necessary to actually understand how the Gray tube works in order to see what the real analogies to the spark plug circuit are.

When the low voltage side is connected by commutator, whatever...the hv source immediately sees path to ground...it sees that the diode is open and has conductivity to the low voltage source which has conductivity to ground which is its own ground...it jumps and as soon as it moves through the diode for a small unit of time, the diode slams shut....only a small fraction of the hv potential made it through.

That hv potential from the cap slams against the diode and compresses against it very strongly forcing it to explode 90 degrees from the wire outwards...the only other path to ground it by going to the grids...through the electromagnet that pulses a magnet or other electromagnet to provide motive force on a motor to a + on another low voltage source and that lv source has a - that winds up being connected back to the hv -'s.

Take a balloon and push it flat against a wall. It compresses and the contents of the balloon wind up exploding 90 degrees perpendicular to the direction of original propagation.

------------

The gap in the Gray tube is simply a mechanism to get the HV to jump into a diode with a lv potential sitting on it so that it can move into it to have the diode slam shut to compress the potential against it.

The secondary discharge from ignition coil is a mechanism to get a HV to jump into a diode with a lv potential sitting on it so that it can move into it to have the diode slam shut to compress the potential against it.

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The Grids on the Gray Tube are the secondary path for the expanded potential to move to ground.

The ground on the spark plug is the secondary path for the expanded potential to move to ground.

-------------

Here is what this method is:

You are giving the HV 2 paths to travel in order for it to move back to its own ground or relative ground.

1 path is a high resistance path
1 path is a low resistance path

---------------

The Gray tube high resistance path is out to grids back to ground.

The water sparkplug circuit's high resistance paths is over spark gap back to ground.

--------------

The Gray tube low resistance path is through the diode to lv side back to ground.

The water sparkplug circuit's low resistance path is through the diode to lv side back to ground.

---------------

1. The HV will choose the low resistance path FIRST
2. Diode slams shut expanding that potential
3. Expanded potential (electro-radiant event) has only the high resistance path left back to ground.

--------------

So when it is explained that the hv spark jumps the gap ionizing it to reduce the resistance of it and have the lv source follow it...is incorrect.

And seeing the analogy in comparision to the Gray tube, that popular explanation of how Luc's spark method works would be the same as claiming that this is how the Gray tube works:

The hv from the hv cap first jumps to the grids ionizing the air to reduce the resistance of it enough for the 12v battery potential to jump from the low voltage rod to the grids...all the while never needing the hv to jump the gap in order to slam against the diode.

We know the above is NOT how the Gray tube works but that is what people are claiming when they say the Spark plug circuit works by the hv simply going to jump over the gap to ionize it for the lv source to follow.

Hi Arron,

Firstly accept my due respect to yours and Peter's hard work in this explanation.
I am a proponent of what i call as Interpertational Physics and i have strong intutive approach in Understanding a phenomenology.
I my opinion the Interpretational aspect of the Radiant Energy or Radiant Electricity to be precise.. It was Tesla's way of interpreting the Energy-Mass Interchangeabilty even before Einstein.. just look at it this way:
Tesla Einstein Quantum Physics
We all know how we can describe the Physics of Nothingness (Vacuum) today it is become distinct about Fractionating the consituent of Nothingess
despite the fact that it is prohibited to fall in main stream teachings.. and the fact that it can be Engineered to put to use.
Anyway Back to the Interpretation on the Radiant Electricity Interaction on The Water - Spark Plug Effect.
How do you explain the Mechanism of Water Mist expolding in a Natural Thunder bolt ?...What plays the role of the 'Diode Slam Shut action' in such a situation? I guess the Answer we seek to this is already explained by E.V Gray him self...( Quote : why is Lightning more power ful near the ground....it has something to do with more Atmoisphere (Air) near the ground..?)
What is it that he is reffering to as the 'Atmoisphere'
we all have over looked another Effect that is vital in the functioning of the E.V Gray Tube.

Bye for now, more as i progress.
PRECURSOR.

[PRECURSOR]

I filmed this several months ago:
YouTube - Gray Tube Replication | Radiant Energy | Cold Electricity

I'll post some more later when I have time.

The plastic tube acts like insulation on a wire...it is a dielectric to hold in the voltage potential INSIDE the tube to keep it from leaking. It locks in the pressure of the gas.

Gray CSET Patent expires this Year...... Replicate and re-file a new Patent

Rgds
PRECURSOR

[Aaron]

clarification

I'd like to clarify this statement of mine:

"So when it is explained that the hv spark jumps the gap ionizing it to reduce the resistance of it and have the lv source follow it...is incorrect."

I'm meaning is incorrect that this automatically just happens first without the other sequence of events. It is a fact that the HV jumps to the LV source first backwards through the diode.

The gap does get ionized to make it conductive enough for the LV to jump over the gap but only AFTER the HV jumps to the LV source first.

The only other thing I'd add to what was quoted is that the cap discharges faster by a negative resistance effect because the HV positive pressure is pulling very strongly on the LV current - so the cap is discharged against a reduced impedance or negative resistance.

[Guest]

[Guest]

Understanding the reaction that takes place between all types of lightbulb and the
energy undergoing a space-time reaction by the law of science stating matter in its
various states cannot occupy identical spaces would help explain a few things.

[ info ]

Might an energy resevoir such as that of a 12V battery have a portion of its
reserve converted along with the LV-side when integrated with the circuit?

[Aaron]

light

I'll try a fluorescent tube next time I work on this.

[Aaron]

"Ed Gray" Purple Motor coming to the conference

There is a picture posted of the "Ed Gray" Purple motor on this site:
http://www.energeticforum.com/conference/
We are told it will be brought to the conference for display.

[mostafa_gordy]

youtube Replace?

hi Sapient!
youtube site blocked by goverment in my Country . Replace (Semblable)site is may (Possible).
sorry my english is poor.

[shawnnweed]

There is probably something else i should reveal. In tesla's colarado springs notes he mentions putting cuts into his aerial but doesnt really explain why. The more you compare between gray and Tesla you realise what grays circuit represents. i.e the holes in grays grids equates to the cuts in tesla's aerial.

Well most of the things that tesla experimented on were high voltage. So if he is cutting holes and it is a closed system than it seems to me that he is purposely creating multiple spark gaps so the system fires more often. After all if the system will not fire often with one spark gap then this is the only other option, cut many holes and hope that through random, multiple discharges that you can establish a near constant flow / change of energy. It seems the anomoly of plasma discharge that is acheived with this system is just the start. In a closed system heavy ionization could occur causing a fertile environment for multiple plasma discharge. The higher the voltage, the faster and more random the occurance happens. In theory the whole thing should light up similar to a flourescent tube except with an ionized full charge. Has anyone ever tried to place xenon gas in this?
,SHawn

[lamare]

There is a picture posted of the "Ed Gray" Purple motor on this site:
http://www.energeticforum.com/conference/
We are told it will be brought to the conference for display.

Mark sent me lots of pictures and chapters of his book about the Gray motor. You can find these at my site:

Directory contents of /pdf/Reference_Material/McKay_Gray_Material/
Single File PHP Gallery

[wonju]

I have read some descriptions for how the Gray circuit works and I think there should be a simpler explanation. I think the concept of having a low voltage and high voltage electrode between the spark gap in Gray’s tube is wrong. For the arc flash to occur, the voltage between gap must be very high (~3KV). The concept for a low voltage electrode might come from the fact that it is connected to the positive side of the battery. However, the voltage between the spark gap just prior to the flash is the voltage of the capacitor 16 (~3KV) minus the voltage of the battery 40. The numbers that I am using refer to the circuit shown in FIG.1 as disclosed by Mr. Gray in his 1986 patent.
I have posted a document showing a different view for the operation of Mr. Gray’s power supply. I would like you to read this document and let me know what you think.
The document can be found here:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-part-2-a.html

[Spokane1]

E.V. Gray Circuit - Theory of Operation

I have read some descriptions for how the Gray circuit works and I think there should be a simpler explanation. I think the concept of having a low voltage and high voltage electrode between the spark gap in Gray’s tube is wrong. For the arc flash to occur, the voltage between gap must be very high (~3KV). The concept for a low voltage electrode might come from the fact that it is connected to the positive side of the battery. However, the voltage between the spark gap just prior to the flash is the voltage of the capacitor 16 (~3KV) minus the voltage of the battery 40. The numbers that I am using refer to the circuit shown in FIG.1 as disclosed by Mr. Gray in his 1986 patent.
I have posted a document showing a different view for the operation of Mr. Gray’s power supply. I would like you to read this document and let me know what you think.
The document can be found here:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-part-2-a.html

Dear wonju,

Nobody and I mean nobody alive today knows how the fundamental E.V. Gray circuit operated - especially E.V. Gray. He might have known how to wire one simple version of one circuit but that was it - if that much.

Richard Hackenberger told his brother Burtram just before "Hack's" death in 1980. "This stuff really works - but I don't know why"

The patents are misleading and don't begin to address the real kernel of this technology. In a recorded 1975 phone conversation Richard Hackenberger discloses the the "secret" was in the construction details of the high voltage transformer. None of the patents go into details about these important components.

The historical record shows that only two people figured out the system well enough to construct operational circuits. That was Marvin Cole and Richard Hackenberger. Probably neither one of them really knew a functional theory as to why they worked. After all this technology seems to have been discoverd by accident some time in the early 60's.

The point is there is no explaination to this technology, just like there is no operational theory behind Cold Fussion. If you can make a circuit work through some theory that you develop - then more power to you. Everyone will come up with a different idea. I have mine. Until we establish repeatable experiments anybodies idea is a good as another.

If you can get something to work then let the physics people argue about it for the next 20 years.

Best of luck in your present theory concepts and the many more that you might develop in the future. Experimentation and accurate measurements are all that we have for now.

Spokane1

[lvleon]

Dear wonju,

Nobody and I mean nobody alive today knows how the fundamental E.V. Gray circuit operated - especially E.V. Gray. He might have known how to wire one simple version of one circuit but that was it - if that much.

Richard Hackenberger told his brother Burtram just before "Hack's" death in 1980. "This stuff really works - but I don't know why"

The patents are misleading and don't begin to address the real kernel of this technology. In a recorded 1975 phone conversation Richard Hackenberger discloses the the "secret" was in the construction details of the high voltage transformer. None of the patents go into details about these important components.

The historical record shows that only two people figured out the system well enough to construct operational circuits. That was Marvin Cole and Richard Hackenberger. Probably neither one of them really knew a functional theory as to why they worked. After all this technology seems to have been discoverd by accident some time in the early 60's.

The point is there is no explaination to this technology, just like there is no operational theory behind Cold Fussion. If you can make a circuit work through some theory that you develop - then more power to you. Everyone will come up with a different idea. I have mine. Until we establish repeatable experiments anybodies idea is a good as another.

If you can get something to work then let the physics people argue about it for the next 20 years.

Best of luck in your present theory concepts and the many more that you might develop in the future. Experimentation and accurate measurements are all that we have for now.

Spokane1

Dears Mark McKay and Aaron Murakami!
No need to wait at the next 20 years!

I wrote several times in this forum about the energy converter physical principles by E.V. Gray's.
Judging by the fact that on my posts have been no comment - they are for participants this Forum was not very interesting.
We, along with one of the experimenter from Russia developed the chain of experiences that allow you to understand the physical principles of operation of the device to obtain the CE not only by Edwin Gray, but similar devices by Don Smith, Stephen Mark, Otto, Kapanadze etc.

The source of energy for all types of air (gas) energy converters is the one and the same. Options for extracting energy could be plenty.

Don Smith, Stephen Mark, Otto, John Bedini, Kapanadze etc. - they had knowledge in a relatively low frequency radio devices ELF - VHF bands, so they built up their energy convertors, that works in ELF- VHF bands.

Edwin Gray's spent his childhood, youth, and army service in the vicinity of radars; it's he examined very well; so he invent and built the energy converter, that works on Decimetric wavelengths (UHF, λ = 21,11 sm). (Edwin Gray before the invention of his the MICROWAVE energy converter also has built up the converters on the basis of patents Tesla, etc., that worked in a relatively low frequency radio ELF-VHF bands. This energy converters was built up with Marvin Cole and Richard Hakenberger).

The source of energy is everywhere the same: this spin transitions stable atomic particles - protons and electrons - from one state to another in a magnetic field of Earth.

If you are interested to know, where does "free" energy - we can provide the program for practical training the basic principles of resonance extract free energy from the ether (physical vacuum), that includes schemas of the simple set of demonstration devices, registrars diagrams, waveforms, photo, etc.
The results of all of our tests are extraordinary and reproducible.


Best regards,
Leonid Volkov.
Ukraine

lvleon@bigmir.net

ðÅÒÅ×ÏÄÞÉË Google

[Spokane1]

Gray's Theories (or lack there of)

Dear Mr. Volkov,

We all appreciate all the fine modern work you have done to corralate the efforts of so many non classical researchers. Readers probably are unable to respond since our working math skills generally don't go beyond two vairable algebra.

I hope that your advanced theriotical insights will provide enough engineering judgment to build working apparatus. The sooner the better. I hope the gods of Free energy smile upon your present efforts.

E. V. Gray was the promoter of this technology he didn't develop it or understand it. It is only out of convention that his name is aqssociated with it.

According to his son, Dr. James Gray, all of the military training that his father received as recorderd by Jack Scagnettie in the 1973 "Probe" article, was all a big lie. He was attempting to make him self seem more knowledgable to his investors.

If he knew so much about this technology then why did the Japanese walk out on him in the middle of a $12 million research deal when he couldn't troubelshoot his own machine when it failed during a test?

All of my reserch and interviews paints the picture of a man who knew nothing about electronics and very little about "his" inventions. He was unable to instruct Richard Hackenberger when he took Marvin Coles' place in 1971. As a result it took Hack 4-5 years to figure this phenomena out, and even then he calims that he didn't understand it.

E.V. Gray was completly usless in instructing the hired technicians who followed Hack.

Nelson Schlaft claims that Gray didn't even know Ohms Law.(1980)

I just don't see how anybody could have a grand theory of operation for this technology and perform so baddly in the years following Marvin Coles departure. And have so little understanding of classical electronics.

Well, just because Gray didn't have a theory (neither did Hack) doesn't mean that the discovery wasn't powerful, It was but none of them seemed to know why.

For sure some wokable theory exists that will guide us through the engineering effort to recreated and inprove the hardware that can perform these non-classical tasks.

If you have faith in you calculations and research model then great. I hope you can secure funding to bring your work to the world.

I think E.V. Gray didn't have a clue (my opinion). So really you need not worry about Gray's theory - The historical record shows he didn't have one.

Whatever you come up with is yours and yours alone. Be proud of it.

Mark McKay

[lvleon]

Dear Mr. Volkov,

We all appreciate all the fine modern work you have done to corralate the efforts of so many non classical researchers. Readers probably are unable to respond since our working math skills generally don't go beyond two vairable algebra.

I hope that your advanced theriotical insights will provide enough engineering judgment to build working apparatus. The sooner the better. I hope the gods of Free energy smile upon your present efforts.

E. V. Gray was the promoter of this technology he didn't develop it or understand it. It is only out of convention that his name is aqssociated with it.

According to his son, Dr. James Gray, all of the military training that his father received as recorderd by Jack Scagnettie in the 1973 "Probe" article, was all a big lie. He was attempting to make him self seem more knowledgable to his investors.

If he knew so much about this technology then why did the Japanese walk out on him in the middle of a $12 million research deal when he couldn't troubelshoot his own machine when it failed during a test?

All of my reserch and interviews paints the picture of a man who knew nothing about electronics and very little about "his" inventions. He was unable to instruct Richard Hackenberger when he took Marvin Coles' place in 1971. As a result it took Hack 4-5 years to figure this phenomena out, and even then he calims that he didn't understand it.

E.V. Gray was completly usless in instructing the hired technicians who followed Hack.

Nelson Schlaft claims that Gray didn't even know Ohms Law.(1980)

I just don't see how anybody could have a grand theory of operation for this technology and perform so baddly in the years following Marvin Coles departure. And have so little understanding of classical electronics.

Well, just because Gray didn't have a theory (neither did Hack) doesn't mean that the discovery wasn't powerful, It was but none of them seemed to know why.

For sure some wokable theory exists that will guide us through the engineering effort to recreated and inprove the hardware that can perform these non-classical tasks.

If you have faith in you calculations and research model then great. I hope you can secure funding to bring your work to the world.

I think E.V. Gray didn't have a clue (my opinion). So really you need not worry about Gray's theory - The historical record shows he didn't have one.

Whatever you come up with is yours and yours alone. Be proud of it.

Mark McKay

Dear Mr. McKay!

Thanks for your wishes!

Unfortunately, you did not understand me little.

1. I am not contending that Edwin Vincent Gray knew the theoretical basis of his invention. Does! If it were so, he would have during his life to prove to the world that he is right, and not suffered like how much hardship and suffering in the last years of his life.

I only showed that each of us is most often succeeds in the field of science and technology, which is close to our hearts for childhood years.

The fate of the invention of Edwin Gray is very close to the fate of the wonderful source of energy and the aircraft John Searle. The latter had no education at all! He was very young age when him in dream was shown how to make a flying machine using permanent magnets. And it was shown in a circular movement of wheat sheafs! And the Lord God sent him engineer-practice together with the big plant and the power station, and sent him seriously ill investor in the last months of his life doing good, - and a few aircraft, and a mini power plant were built.

The inventions of Mr. John Searle a while had a huge success. And then the other side of the coin has turned over all stood still. Mr. John Searle still alive, (let the God grant him health!), but after the second world war his invention were able to PARTIALLY replicate only Russian inventors Mr Roshchin and Mr. Godin. Then in the USSR went to restructuring, funding ran out and all. Mr. Roshchin and Mr. Godin didn't even have been able to maintain patent-nothing was paid a regular contributor.

Mr. John Searle today travels with his lectures all over the world. It has a mass of followers - but beyond desktop demonstration prototype case still goes!

This is also the case with all generators free energy. Now such living inventor Mr. Tariel Kapanadze, and many other similar inventions.

The God gave - the God took.

2. Dear Mr. Mckay! For all your "why" in relation to the invention of Edwin Gray the answer can only give practical experiments.

My last message is not about theory.

We, along with one of the experimenters from Russia have developed some simple experiments that shed light on the vast majority of your "why", not only in relation to the energy converter by Edwin Gray, but also to many other converters free energy. The vast majority of failures of burning desire to repeat the experimenters a free energy generator is ignorance of the properties of the environment from which they are going to get this energy. This information have not been written in the patents of Edwin Gray, they have not been written in patents Don Smith ... as well as all other inventors patents. They are the main "secrets" all these inventions.

Our experiments designed to study the RESONANT properties of environment under conditions as close as possible to the conditions of the free energy generators. We have a very comprehensive explanation on the all resonant, which we are seen in the atoms of the air and copper.
All our experiences are 100% reproducible.

I proposed to you, and your colleagues who are interested in this technology, to repeat the our simples experience, more nothing.

Yours faithfully
Leonid Volkov