Gray Tube Replication

[Aaron]

LV side ratings

Hi Gauss,

I have used two different inductive loads.

The first was a coreless spool of fine magnet wire maybe 28 gauge. I put a ceramic magnet inside the middle and have seen subtle movements on the magnet with some tests.

The second was a small coil with welding rod for the core. I sat a ceramic magnet on top of this core and had it jump a few inches on one test that was difficult to replicate. But that was enough to see that the concept of the Gray Tube worked and the diode definitely has to have the cathode towards the LV rod.

The LV side I believe can be any voltage as long as it is just LOWER than the HV side. If the HV side is 4000v then the LV side can be 3999 conceptually...but I would keep it much lower and higher capacitance. Gray used a 12V battery...assuming standard car battery and similar amp rating so I think for the real Gray Tube replication on the same scale, a 12V car battery should be at the LV side.

If anyone wants to experiment with the Gray Tube and use an Ignition coil on the HV side, I'd use around 400v and 4~couple hundred uf's similar to the LV side on the water sparkplug circuits.

[Aaron]

LV follows HV?

Here is where there is no evidence yet...

With the LV source. Once the HV gets rejected by a closed diode and jumps to the grids, does the LV source use that jumped "spark" as a conductive pathway to jump after the HV to add to it? It would be like what is happening in the water sparkplug thread.

I made the magnet jump with dead capacitors on the LV side...just polarized. That is evidence just as we have seen in the water sparkplug circuits that the LV side can be virtually nothing.

That rules out the necessity of having something on the LV side for small scale demo of just showing the principle.

But will some actual punch in the LV side help and does it follow the HV discharge over to the grids? I don't know but with the LV path physically disconnecting, the carbon resistor, etc... everything is against those odds but that doesn't mean the LV isn't necessary for full bore replication of the Gray Tube to make serious power.

This is one area that needs to be understood.

[Beshires1]

With the LV source. Once the HV gets rejected by a closed diode and jumps to the grids, does the LV source use that jumped "spark" as a conductive pathway to jump after the HV to add to it?

I think so. Alexander Grey stated in a 1919 publication, describing the workings of the Mercury Vapor tube, That the low voltage DC needed help in jumping a sparkgap. But he also says that once it started bridging the gap it could be stretched quite a way.

[Aaron]

LV following HV

That's interesting and possible Beshires.

In the water sparkplug thread, I learned that is common in some welding applications. My "big thing" when I saw people claiming that is what was automatically happening was that it was done with really nothing on the LV side except for polarity and a diode to slam shut. That didn't mean the LV couldn't follow the HV but wasn't required.

Anyway, I did get a magnet to jump with empty caps on the LV side but just polarized so I don't believe it is necessary but that doesn't mean that it can't help boost it if there is something on the LV side.

I believe it can be booster. That is where some of my water sparkplug tests took me. I found that it was NOT the cause of the plasma spark, but it could add to it.

Anyway, I'll post some simplified schematics of a Gray Tube circuit. But I'll say potentially, the most complicated part is the most effective HV charger to charge a cap to 4-5kv and from 4-12uf.

4000v 4uf and up to 5kv 12uf...seems to be the range that I've seen referenced in any of the Gray stuff. That doesn't mean that a smaller cap can't work but maybe these discharges are needed for serious torque...especially when the rotor gets hits with three blasts per rotation...they cold definitely be synchronized for super torque if the caps were charged up fast enough.

I'm comfortable starting with the HV side being up to 1200v at about 20uf or so and the LV side being a 12v car battery IF I have a carbon resistor on the LV rod. If not, then I'll do the tests with just caps on the LV side.

[Guest]

How about lightning looking for the oak tree? Oak tree being LV anode and cloud being HV anode. Look at the geometry of the top of the tree and the tree trunk, it might yield a result.

Then please read the book "Introduction to dielectric & Magnetic discharges in electrical windings" by Eric Dollard(this guy is a key figure of radiant energy, just like Meyl, that is why both are harassed, those who are not harassed are not so knowledgeable, terrible but true).

I quote(copyright Dollard): "Unlike magnetism the dielectric energy is forced or compressed inwards rather than outwards" .. the force lines are mutually repellent but the dielectric phenomena is basically longitudinal... -the smaller the space bounded by the conducting structure the more energy that can be stored.... exact opposite of magnetism.. volumes of energy in dielectricity are working in series and not in parallell like magnetism..


How about the oak tree? It has a wide top area narrowing down its area to the tree trunk. Just what it takes to release a big energy according to Dollard. Now try to apply this thinking to a LV receiver of a spark.

I am sure this is how Gray thought about lightning and his tube.

Btw, thanks Aaron for your info, keep us posted if you finish your design, I think the inductive load is just as much key to success as the tube.

[Aaron]

lightning

Hi Gauss,

I think you're right. I've read some of Dollard's stuff and heard some more. Peter worked and knew him very well for years.

Most people see the Earth as a negative/ground. It can act as a ground but can act as a POSITIVE radiant potential.

I think there were references to lightning from Gray?

[Aaron]

Gray Tube Simplified

Here is just some of my thoughts of where to go with this for simplicity sake:

[Guest]

Thanks Aaron, great job! I will check details later. I am thinking about the ultimate pick up geometry of radiant charge and then how to time the inductive load magnets. Were you thinking about one tube, one wheel or several tubes with one flywheel at different phase angles? Back EMF?

It seems this LV-HV anode thinking is a real progress from the Tesla spark gap designs. Very rare indeed...

Progress is music..

[Aaron]

multi tubes

Hi Gauss,

From that diagram, I would just do 1 wheel with some magnets, one tube and one coil. If that wheel spins from the pulses from the coil powered by grid output, then powering an inductive load with this method will be proven.

Another thing is to time two tubes to power two coils and the coils repel...that would be serious torque to have to opposing coils push from each other instead of permanent magnets.

I would definitely move to multi coils/tubes/etc... after that.

If timing works at TDC, then it could be a pendulum with one magnet on it that will work in both directions. With a commutator switch on the shaft, it could be easily turned to find optimum timing. There are several variables that would affect timing I would imagine. Gap distance, diode shut off time, distance to grids from rods, etc...

On that diagram I posted, I'm sure the coil could be a bifilar with the recovery winding going through a full bridge to charge caps for any purpose.

[Beshires1]

Hi Aaron
Does S1 and S2 work alternatively? If so I think a person could use a solid state alternating electronic flasher unit to switch the low voltage from S1 to S2 to help establish proof of concept. Something like this Amazon.com: Tridon EL13A-2.PFL Electronic Flasher: Automotive I'm using a 2 post thermal one to drive my ignition coil, works great. Just had to attach a automotive condenser across the switch (flasher). Remember the spark from the coil comes as the connection is broken.

[Guest]

Well done Aaron! I get your points and I like your thinking. The double coil idea seems very interesting if the power does not break the load....

Since yesterday I am beginning to think about the real difference between a cap and a spark gap. Has anyone tried to pick up radiant from a cap, especially the last one in the Gray wiring? If we have a plate cap the difference between the cap and the spark gap is merely a question about geometry and dielectric constants. We have seen the guys like Inkatel prove overunity with multi spark gaps and the caps are a sure way to increase the radaint effect, in fact it seems like there are minor differences. The space is limited in both cases which increases the voltage pressure. Just a thought btw.

How about this wild idea. We need to integrate the Patterson cell thinking into the Gray tube. Fill it up with thousands of small coated dielectric beads, maybe we wil increase the receiving power many times. Remember he achieved 4000 times OU, the aether is spherical, why is nobody trying??!

The experiment is worthwhile I believe. Btw I also like the idea of putting the diode inside the tube.

[Aaron]

switching

Hi Aaron
Does S1 and S2 work alternatively?

Hi Beshires,

I think S2 and S3 can be locked closed. S1 is the only one switching off/on while running. S2 can be disconnected at anytime to prevent battery overcharge.

The recovery could be sent to a separate battery + and the - of that second recovery battery neg would simply be tied to the common ground.

[Guest]

After more consideration I believe the microspheres will induce a massive magnetic pulse together with the HV radiant pulse.

This means the Gray cell already obviously has an inductive coupling via the concentric cylinders but many microspheres undoubtedly will make the HV pulse turn sideways in vortex fashion around the mini spheres(every sphere pair will contain a dielectric field between them ending on the conductors) hence initiating friction and a magnetic pulse(followed by some current I assume since Gray grounds the copper cage with a cap, whyare we not discussing that part).

Since the HV pulse moves instantly through the tube and the magnetic pulse follows through each successive movement over the mini spheres(concentric cylinders) the current will always fall behind, unclear how this works in the cable from the tube to the flywheel, obviously only the magnetic pulse will follow the dielectric one. If we design the cable from the tube to the flywheel everything will be better.

We are moving ahead now, this is important, I can feel it. I also may be wrong but that is ok, it is human.

[Aaron]

grids and ground

(followed by some current I assume since Gray grounds the copper cage with a cap, whyare we not discussing that part).

The grids go first to an inductive load, then cap, then battery, which has the common ground with the initial HV source. The cap is optional and is for protection so battery doesn't explode.

The other place the grids are grounded is the safety gap. In case the inductive load can't take any more from the grids, the excess can overshoot the gap directly go ground right by the HV cap.

This is all already on all the diagrams.

I think the idea of the spheres is interesting. I have a few notebooks of different variations of different things I want to try with the Gray Tube. I'm looking forward to completing just the first bare basic way the patents and Bedini's diagrams show until I do anything different.

[mlurye]

Hi guys. I had an idea, it could be stupid one but I felt like I have to share it to somebody . Ok here we go:
Grays tube is controlling device and voltage incrising in one. Based on mechanical devices he was directing current 2 ways and in tube current was going in lowest resistence path + increased voltage from sparking. I think that's all what tube was doing. No other magic
Does any of you know if it's possible to disassemble ignition coil and redesign it to HV electromagnet?
Thank for any responce