Gray Tube Replication

[Beshires1]

Thanks Beshires

I found something else to validate my ideas and I probably wouldn't have found it unless you were so persistent about following the diagram in the patent you kept posting. and

Then let-er rip tater-chip!

[mlurye]

Guys,
I don't know if anybody noticed. But schema that I created is hybrid between latest Gray's patent and first one.
I was thinking some more on how to make this schema with CSET and to make it work. It's missing one key component!!! Check out my idea.

[boguslaw]

Boguslaw,

Towards the top right of ever post is a "permalink" but to the left of that is a link with a #..can you post that link instead because that will take me straight to the exact post you refer to. I'm not sure why the post # links just go to the thread.

Sure. http://www.energeticforum.com/38238-post87.html

[Electrotek]

Guys,
I don't know if anybody noticed. But schema that I created is hybrid between latest Gray's patent and first one.
I was thinking some more on how to make this schema with CSET and to make it work. It's missing one key component!!! Check out my idea.

Good thinking, Mike. I've been looking at a diode in this location to charge the top capacitor, in my setup circuit. This corresponds to capacitor 38, which I consider to be the operating cap. One of Mark's "GD" pictures shows this very component. It's at the bottom front of the CSET, connecting the grids' white motor wire with the capacitor 38. My basic circuit doesn't show my diode T-tap, or the switch which allows it to trigger the Overshoot gap, to fire the motor.

In the Investor photo, capacitor 16 is in the Black Box sitting on the floor. There's a small wire running to the CSET electrode, on the far end.

[Electrotek]

Radiant CSET

That commutator I struggled with and I found the same part in Tesla patent for device utilizing radiant energy 685957.

What if Gray tube is really a special capacitor, charged from inside by a radiant energy and discharged through secondary circuit by commutator ?

I think you're on the right track. In Tesla's patent, Radiant Energy hitting the plate pulls electrons from it, placing a charge on his capacitor. In the CSET, Radiant Energy from the electrode pulls electrons from the grids, producing a momentary positive charge. This charge pulls electrons from the battery, but not the capacitor, due to the extra diode at this point. Unlike Tesla's receiver, the grids aren't insulated, so the electrons from the battery flow into the capacitor, through the diode, after the Radiant Energy pulse is over, and the pulled electrons condense back onto the grids. Repeating this at a high rate - 3 to 6 kps - quickly charges the capacitor, due to the blocking diode of the "one way energy path" from the battery. As long as there is no arcing from the electrode to the grids.

But it's the capacitor which is discharged by the commutator.

With Aaron's setup, his Tube is equivalent to the "one way energy path". If he connects his grid to the electrode of a Power Conversion CSET, with multiple grids, the pulse from his Tube might produce Radiant Energy within the CSET, charging the capacitor.

In the Investor photo, only one wire is connected to the CSET electrode, like an antenna.

[What The Flux]

Sparks are amazing

I wasn't blazing any new ground tonight, just tinkering with my setup - driving my coil and gray tube with a Imhotep's oscillator at 12V.

I took the HV from the ignition coil through a bridge rectifier and into a microwave oven capacitor. I was able to store 450-500V in the cap.

Then I changed the setup and first took the HV through the smallest of spark gaps, and with no other change I was into kilovolts, and overranging on 2KV scale. That's stored capacitor charge, not just a voltage peak.

Pretty amazing I think.
No doubt the spark is magical. But I'm not telling you anything you don't know.

[Aaron]

cap rating?

WTF, What is the rating of that cap?

[Guest]

You are ALL doing great work so what is the fuzz about??! Just keep the good spirits up and keep working, all else is secondary now that you have come so close!

[boguslaw]

I think you're on the right track. In Tesla's patent, Radiant Energy hitting the plate pulls electrons from it, placing a charge on his capacitor. In the CSET, Radiant Energy from the electrode pulls electrons from the grids, producing a momentary positive charge. This charge pulls electrons from the battery, but not the capacitor, due to the extra diode at this point. Unlike Tesla's receiver, the grids aren't insulated, so the electrons from the battery flow into the capacitor, through the diode, after the Radiant Energy pulse is over, and the pulled electrons condense back onto the grids. Repeating this at a high rate - 3 to 6 kps - quickly charges the capacitor, due to the blocking diode of the "one way energy path" from the battery. As long as there is no arcing from the electrode to the grids.

But it's the capacitor which is discharged by the commutator.

With Aaron's setup, his Tube is equivalent to the "one way energy path". If he connects his grid to the electrode of a Power Conversion CSET, with multiple grids, the pulse from his Tube might produce Radiant Energy within the CSET, charging the capacitor.

In the Investor photo, only one wire is connected to the CSET electrode, like an antenna.

That was my first idea, but I think it was wrong, because :
1. capacitor 38 was added by Gray, there was no such part in original Marvin Cole setup. That means only CSET could be a capacitor discharged by commutator like in Tesla radiant patent.
But...

2. In Gray photos grids are very narrow, taking only small space at the bottom of container. Where is the capacitance so ?

Magnifying transformer concept fit better to photos and facts. And electron pulling from battery is also required in that concept to create really big unidirectional spark. I recall Tesla said that convertion from DC current is the hardest and minimum 100V is required. Marvin Cole used 12V battery so he need a source of fast electrons as a replacement for 100V DC current. IMHO powering vaccum diode heater create high voltage potential on anode.

[mlurye]

@What The Flux. Try to remove spark gap. I do belive cap will charge as well.

[What The Flux]

WTF, What is the rating of that cap?

It's a .88uF 2100V microwave oven cap.

@What The Flux. Try to remove spark gap. I do belive cap will charge as well.

Not sure what you mean by 'removing' the spark gap. The initial setup had the spark gap shorted out. That was when I was charging the cap to 450V. It was after I opened up the gap to maybe .01" that the charge voltage immediately went up. The spark was so subtle that you could barely see it in normal lighting, but the effect on charging voltage was huge.

[Electrotek]

That was my first idea, but I think it was wrong, because :
1. capacitor 38 was added by Gray, there was no such part in original Marvin Cole setup. That means only CSET could be a capacitor discharged by commutator like in Tesla radiant patent.
But...

2. In Gray photos grids are very narrow, taking only small space at the bottom of container. Where is the capacitance so ?

Magnifying transformer concept fit better to photos and facts. And electron pulling from battery is also required in that concept to create really big unidirectional spark. I recall Tesla said that convertion from DC current is the hardest and minimum 100V is required. Marvin Cole used 12V battery so he need a source of fast electrons as a replacement for 100V DC current. IMHO powering vaccum diode heater create high voltage potential on anode.

Capacitor 38 represents the small capacitor banks MC used with the first motor, for each coil. The first motor did not include a CSET, and it was the capacitors which were discharged by the commutator. This big cap is just to the left of the CSET in the Investor photo.

It's entirely possible that the operation is based on the Magnifying transformer, or even something else. That's why we need to experiment with various approaches.

My experience with Super Bolt capacitor discharges has shown that it takes four or five seconds to charge something like a CSET to a high uF value. The time varying pulses are related to the relaxation time of the NST primary. I don't know if this can be speeded up for rapid discharge repetition. I'll play with this a little more, eventually. For now, I'll be happy when I can charge Cap 38 in a fraction of a second - with a battery.

[mlurye]

@Electrotek: Could you make a picture of your setup?

[Electrotek]

@Electrotek: Could you make a picture of your setup?

Here's the picture:


The defibrillator inductor is at the very top, with the 'hot stick' dowel rod stuck in the hole, for storage. The big cap it's setting on is 38. And the blue wire to the diode is the arc gap, which is 42.

Not shown is the diode T-tap from the other end of the diode to the arc.

[mlurye]

What is the value for cap 16? And actualy if you can provide params for all your components it would be realy good. Also could show your power supply and how it is connected?
I did markup your picture. Is it correct?