Gray Tube Replication

[mlurye]

Freeukpower: According to H. Moray radiant energy are coming in waves, so may be your discharges were happening in sync with wave and it did trigger energy splash.

[What The Flux]

Spark frequency and pulse width

@ nat1971a
@ Aaron

Yes, I too have thought this and am writing a program for a microcontroller to adjust the overall frequency and pulse width as well. Generally in conventional electronics, the more narrow the pulse width the less power output you get, so then you increase the freq, and then decrease the pulse width... and so on. However with everything that's been discussed so far, Im afraid that just adjusting the pulse width wont produce much power out. I think if we figure out how to interrupt the pulses so that they're say in the 1 microsecond range, then we may have something.

Last night I was re-reading Mark McKays pages on the motor. I wanted to give myself an idea of just how short a pulse Ed Gray was getting.

We know the contact "distributor" was about 8" in diameter, and that the minimum operation speed was posted as 500RPM. That means 8.33 RPS, and therefore the linear speed of the contacts was 208 inches/sec. If we assume the contacts were 1/4" (which means a 1/2" zone of contact as they pass each other), that means the switch to ground is closed for 2.4 mS. That's three orders of magnitude greater than the 1us we are looking for.

So now it becomes clearer that the circuitry, specifically the inverted diode and/or magnetic quenching are required to obtain a much shorter discharge. Furthermore, a discharge that long would completely drain the capacitor on every cycle.

My only point here is that we may not have to fry our brains trying to find a switching setup which will give us a 1uS pulse when it's apparent that gray got away with milliseconds. The rest of the pulse shaping is obviously in the circuitry.

I think freeukpower was brute-forcing it by accelerating the ball bearing. It didn't sound like he was using a reversed diode to get the slam-shut phenomenon as described by Aaron.

[freeukpower]

In reply to "What The Flux " in post 872 At the time of the experiments I have reported I had not seen the significance of the reversed diode.With the benefit of this group and 20/20 vision hind sight I would have done some things differently.

The use of the ball bearing switch and the twin reed relay was just to give short duration pulses. My recent work since Christmas with reverse diodes show much promise but as yet non of the desired energy pulses.

[martin]

Maybe Gray was referring to the pulse width of the actual radiant spike. Just for kicks I'm programming a mcu to give a 1-2us pulse and scope it to see what it looks like going into different lengths of primary's.

I was able to dunk a fully lit cfl into water with absoultly no shock, but cannot light a regular bulb.

[Electrotek]

CSET With Coils

Martin: I've been thinking about your setup with the static field coils around the CSET. (Message #820, page 28) I have reason to believe that this IS what Gray did. I've been thinking for some time that there was something inside those coils, due to the light inside the tube and the way it's backed up against one of the Black Boxes. I was thinking maybe it was a spark gap, with the arc interacting with the floating static field, or vice versa. Then I found the crossed field switch patent (#4596945). This patent says that if the tube is used without the Low Voltage controls, it just acts as a switch. So it finally dawned on me that maybe it's the CSET itself which is inside these coils. Here's a picture of Gray popping a coil, with what may be the CSET on the left.

ImageShack® - inertiatek's images

If Gray's Tube is a crossed field switch, it would have to have a vacuum, or low pressure. And it might need a little mercury, as well as a quenching agent such as methyl alcohol or chlorine.

[martin]

Martin: I've been thinking about your setup with the static field coils around the CSET. (Message #820, page 28) I have reason to believe that this IS what Gray did. I've been thinking for some time that there was something inside those coils, due to the light inside the tube and the way it's backed up against one of the Black Boxes. I was thinking maybe it was a spark gap, with the arc interacting with the floating static field, or vice versa. Then I found the crossed field switch patent (#4596945). This patent says that if the tube is used without the Low Voltage controls, it just acts as a switch. So it finally dawned on me that maybe it's the CSET itself which is inside these coils. Here's a picture of Gray popping a coil, with what may be the CSET on the left.

ImageShack® - inertiatek's images

If Gray's Tube is a crossed field switch, it would have to have a vacuum, or low pressure. And it might need a little mercury, as well as a quenching agent such as methyl alcohol or chlorine.

I see what your talking about now! Everyone that Ive talked to thought that that tube was a step down air core transformer, but now that you mention it, that cable wrapped around that unit looks very similar to the cable wrapped around the motor. How cool is that! That would be awesome if that's the actual cset!

[martin]

Electrotek, if that is the cset, and that is the FFF around it, then what is that big loop hanging on the wall? It looks like it could be the same diameter as the motor FFF.

Hey, look what I found!! The FFF IS wrapped around the CSET!!!! This is NOT an air core transformer. In this close up picture what was thought to be fine windings, is in fact black tape! If you look under the FFF wire, there is a small buldge indicating that there's something larger (green arrows). Guess what?? This is actually 2 tubes, 1 taped to each end with what I think is the cset in between and the black tape also serves as an insulator between the FFF and the cset tube itself.

Good eyeballs Electrotek!!

I think if we apply Aaron's green popping spark we just may be several steps closer.

[lamare]

Ed Gray rare videos

Hi all, just found these old Gray video's:

YouTube - EV GRAY Motor and Cold Energy lost Video

YouTube - EV GRAY Demonstration Pulse Motor

YouTube - EV GRAY Demonstration AC Pulsing Cart "Cold Energy"

Note: sometimes it says "no longer available". Then later, it seems to work.

[What The Flux]

Electrotek, if that is the cset, and that is the FFF around it, then what is that big loop hanging on the wall? It looks like it could be the same diameter as the motor FFF.

Hey, look what I found!! The FFF IS wrapped around the CSET!!!! This is NOT an air core transformer. In this close up picture what was thought to be fine windings, is in fact black tape! If you look under the FFF wire, there is a small buldge indicating that there's something larger (green arrows). Guess what?? This is actually 2 tubes, 1 taped to each end with what I think is the cset in between and the black tape also serves as an insulator between the FFF and the cset tube itself.

Good eyeballs Electrotek!!

I think if we apply Aaron's green popping spark we just may be several steps closer.

Quite a remarkable find, if true! But where do you think the three wires for the CSET are connected? From this other view, it doesn't look like anything else is going into the tube.

[Electrotek]

What The Flux: Your picture shows the plastic tube backed up against the Black Box. Extra wires could be going in from there, unseen. The two main wires are also hanging down, unconnected. In my photo, and Martin's, they are pulled to the side, apparantly connected.

Also, Mark MaKay pointed out to me that there seems to be a metal sleeve sliped over the PVC pipe.

And the Hackenberger photo also shows this same component in the middle of the table, this time with an end cap.

Now the trick will be determining how it's wound and connected. Mark thinks the coils are wound with the same sence, and I agree. But what's with the soldered connections on the sides?

[Electrotek]

Martin: Gray was real cute about leaving extraneous clues in his pictures. I think the black coil on the wall is showing that the end of the coils go into the tube. Other pictures show something different here, or nothing.

[Aaron]

carbon and green

There's a comet in the neighborhood and it's green. The article says the color comes, in part, due to the interaction of the sun's light with diatomic carbon. Could the UV in a spark and this same type of carbon make a green spark? The blast from a spark will often deposit carbon on the electrode, probably due to an electrical interaction with CO2.

'Jupiter-sized' comet to streak past Earth tonight | Mail Online

In my tube, the only place there was carbon was between the rod tips and I did get the green discharge there, but, I also get the green discharge between the grids and the HV rod and there is no signs of carbon there. From grid to rod, the burst is near where the wire to grids are soldered since that area has a little bump that sticks out closer to the rod than the rest of the grid.

In Gray's patent, he says the carbon is for limiting current from the source but there are obviously far more interesting things that resistors can do in these circumstances.

[Aaron]

cap discharge vs trigger time

that means the switch to ground is closed for 2.4 mS. That's three orders of magnitude greater than the 1us we are looking for.

My only point here is that we may not have to fry our brains trying to find a switching setup which will give us a 1uS pulse when it's apparent that gray got away with milliseconds. The rest of the pulse shaping is obviously in the circuitry.

What the Flux,

What I found is even with a very slow trigger contact speed, the cap is still forced to discharge fast so it is independent of the trigger contact speed.

[martin]

Something else that's strange to me. The coils around this tube and the closeup of the FFF coil that McKay posted, the windings are square, not round like cable. These couldn't be several mini-pancake style coils in series could they? If so, that could be some sort of DC charging choke to keep the voltage from dipping (constant pressure like Tesla's dynamo) for the radiant event to occur across the spark gap. Actually that could be construed as a delay line, do delay the dc from dipping?

[boguslaw]

Something else that's strange to me. The coils around this tube and the closeup of the FFF coil that McKay posted, the windings are square, not round like cable. These couldn't be several mini-pancake style coils in series could they? If so, that could be some sort of DC charging choke to keep the voltage from dipping (constant pressure like Tesla's dynamo) for the radiant event to occur across the spark gap. Actually that could be construed as a delay line, do delay the dc from dipping?

Delay line, I agree.And I think it's for shifting phase of currents of cold electricity.
Look at the picture of Tesla motor coils and shifting phase transformer.
Metal tube is a core but maybe also end plate of transformer.
P - primary, S - secondary
Primary is unconnected or connected to metal plate (better if insulated but could be bare I think). The you will see 3 wires coming out to the pop-up coils.

Could it be similar ?