Gray Tube Replication

[baroutologos]

Thanks for the explanation Aaron. I pondered last night about it, and find out that indeed those two approaches work on the same principle as you point, with the difference the first scheme has to pass the pulse through diodes whereas the second approach does not... (pass through grid)

gathering resources.

Baroutologos

ps: I hear again and again the sound of your machine! it is really sounds like my old SACHs motor!

[nat1971a]

i don't believe it!!!.....my battery's are charging.....went from 10.86 to 11.17 in 3-5 minutes using grays circuit.....and it is holding the charge!!!

Have to pound the battery's!!!

[nat1971a]

it is still going up without running 11.24

[nat1971a]

still going up 11.88volts without running

[nat1971a]

The chargeing battery is now 12.35volts with the circuit still not running

[nat1971a]

The charge battery is now 13.30 with the circuit still not running

[nat1971a]

think i need to buy another volt meter to confirm

[Aaron]

batts

Battery charging sounds great. If you're charging it with those impulses,
it charges batteries like mad. I always had some kind of protective piece
of wood, plexiglass, etc... in case they blow up.

[baroutologos]

hello again.

Past week i spend my free time at assembling all (i think) nessecary parts for a draft replication of Gray tube. (not the machine)

Of course at first, nothing worked as intented. I have use the classical approach of charging a cap (#16 of patent) via from an ignition coil that does not share common ground (it is not isolated transformer). Only the charged cap shares. The cap at the moment is 26Nf, ceramic cluster little caps from a failed Tesla coil project i had.

Chopper circuit (20) is a fully protected via caps and chokes 555-timer adjustable in frequency range. (i can regulate the HV cap discharge rate)

I made a tube (14) made of two copper grids, 14mm and 20 mm of diameter, isolated (to check some concepts i have) and spaced with non conductive epoxy.

Overshoot diode (44) was made for not straining the ignition coil from potential cap (16) polarity reversal.

An 42 voltage regulator component was improvised (see screws) because i cannot adjust the ignition coil to charge at a convenient voltage level. It works like a "pressure release of the circuit"

Commutator have been omited totally and the process is triggered by the spark created from the charged capacitor to Low voltage electrode.

The low voltage source is not actually a low voltage one. It is consisted of a fully adjustable capacitor bank 0-100uf at 400volt max. The bank is being charged by a wall-plug via 6 in series-1n5408 diodes (one alone was burned out) and wired in series a resistor (in my case a 75watt incadescence lamp)
works fine.

FIrst findings
.....................

When circuit is firing but the low-voltage source is not powered, then it only charges very little each time the cap bank (or the low voltage source) and main spark is released via the (42) component.

When the LV source is energized, the little, ear splitting sparks of the primary cap (16) are enhanced (by the well described process by Aaron) and the low voltage source also discharges with a loud bang.

In any case, if the grid is relative far in respect to HV electrode and in relation to HV potential, then the discharge of the cap (16) and of that of the LV source (cap bank) are "added" and expelled both at point (42) see missFIRe picture.

With carefull adjustments, of distance between the HV electrode and grid - HV/LV electrode, then the component (42) does not fire anymore and the discharges are directed solely to the grid.

In this case a larger ear splitting, firecracker type spark/flash is being observed, (BANG!)
...

As a load is placed a 2.5 hmH (16AWG, 250 turns average) ready made high quality audio inductor.

The weird part. (why alllll the weirds to me?)

When i discharge the cap bank (LV source 80-90uf at 300volts) directly to the inductor, there is not bang. There is not flash. Only few little hot-melt-metal like sparks and that's it.
The inductor in this way, develops a high kick, that can be sense away enough if i hold a metal object as a screw driver.

In the tube procedure. With the high voltage-low voltage, LOUD bang, big flash collision, the inductor does NOT develop any kick sense to my hand holding the screw driver.
By wiring in series a FL lamp, the lamp flashes, i know this way that the LV source in combination to HV (#16) is discharged instantanously (from grids) to the inductor, yet the inductor does NOT develop the faintest sense of pulsing...

It feels like, all the energy of the pulse is spent to the loud, flashy bang, and the return current is... powerless to manifest magnetism? or the pulse is so fast that the touch-sense cannot feel it? (unlikely)
Anyone with any ideas here please...

That's from now. It really funny anyway. In fun scale its really very superior to anything replicated so far by me.

Baroutologos

[Aaron]

schematic?

Baroutologos,

Do you have a full schematic? It seems you're just about there.

[baroutologos]

Here we are. Sorry for bad design, but illustrates everything in my setup at the moment.
Diodes are stabdard 6A10 - 12 in series.
Overshoot protection (42) is regulated at 8-9 KV.

Note: battery's ground and common ground is not the same, because the ignition coil is not isolation transformer. So a FWBR cannot work, only a single rectifier this way.

...

aNother interesting point is the more the tube operates the better the "performance" of it. I tend to believe that INDEED a tube is necessary here. My "tube" is actually open air electrodes/grid.

Baroutologos

[baroutologos]

Two kinds of results

I played with my new setup again. Few more observations i want to share for discusion.

Sparks and Sparks...

My tube like system, when setup-up properly and the LV cap discharges along HV little cap to grid, and there is not any overshoot taking place at 42 component, two kind of sparks occur.

1) A very flashy, loud bang (high pitch), instantaneous one, like a small firecracker, that does NOT produce any kind of kick sensation to the 2.5mH inductor, (perhaps too fast to feel?)

2) A not flashy, hollow, low pitch, spark which produces a kick sensation to the inductor.

The second case, in terms of kick production, i cannot sense any greater kick than plaining discharging the LV cap directly to the inductor, as if the collision process does not add anything.

Finally, a tubing indeed make the procedure easy.

EDIT:

For measurment purposes i connected a 0.1 F 30 volt cap in place of inductor. I calculated (roughly) the times required of "bangs" to be filled in 30volts. Then i calculated charge (coulombs) accumulated vs charge expended (form cap bank & HV cap) and not surprisingly i find out we are even. Not current multiplication with my current setup.

Baroutologos

[nat1971a]

bugger...it turns out my multimeter is faulty

[nat1971a]

Just tried a small amount of german silver 10feet in the circuit as the resistor in series with the carbon resistor. It was poorly connected so as to boost the resistance - my way of fast tracking it. I wound it over some washing machine hose which had the grooves in it already. It appears to have changed the circuit a fair bit - the safety overshoot was firing at the same time which was a bit scary. seemed to be even more powerful than before..much more testing required though

interesting enough if i understand this correctly tesla was using a lot of electro positive metals/materials i.e copper zinc nickel. In the colarado notes he was using iodine which i found out today is the 2nd most electro positive material......which matches up nicely with what gray was doing

[baroutologos]

From my tests so far, i cannot even convice myself that the HV-LV merge has any potential in it.
After several charges discharges via the collision method and the plain discharge of the power capacitors (LV side) the kick felt by the electromagnet is the same or little worst with the merging of the voltages.

I have added an Elco cap (0.1f) with a diode (46#) as revised by TVfree, (ground to load) and i managed to collect some 20-30 % of the enegry released by the caps as BEMF ala Bedini style.

....
Without an indusctor as a load, i possition two electrolytic caps 450v 270uf in series and pulsed the draft tube. Neither in this case i got the faintest idea that the LV current is accelerated by the HV potential. Instead, after reaching the load caps some level, the LV side refused to spark anymore. only the HV continue the sparking.

Anyway, tried several stuf and had two "mild" electrecutions! Damn one hand rule... i always forget...

The more i play, the more i realize that the Switching Element conversion tube does what it says. Switching! As for conversion i am not conviced at all.
But it is very practical for switching, since the spark gap can handle KVs and KAmps at no time and no wear. (if properly made)

...
EDIT: I was thinking about the key points somewhere i read about gray machine.Keelynet - EVGRAY2.HTM - 02/24/00

1 and 2 are well understood. The 3rd point goes..
(3) lightning bolts seem to be more powerful when closer to the earth where the atmosphere is heaviest.

Gray quote claimed:

"And I've always been a nut about thunderstorms. I watched lightning by the the hours. I noticed how much stronger it appeared to be when closer to the earth and just naturally concluded that more air had something to do with it."

...
I naturally begun to think that a tube is a tube! Tha means it can contain air or another gas inside. It can also has a near vacuum or pressurized gas.

If we are take a look at Pavel Imris patent, us 3.781.601 that deals with FL lamp efficiency lighting, he makes more than clear that the higher the pressure of his "conversion tube" the greater the lamp efficiency, despite the fact that the tube itself has great heat losses.

Alas, at the moment i have not the means for conductig high pressure tube experiments.

Baroutologos