Gray Tube Replication

[pranav2010]

aaron

hi aaron

i am also too busy

now i brought cdi system

tomorrow i am going to test it with car battery

have wonderful day

[Guest]

I've set it up mostly similar to how the drawing shows from
my previous post, and might I say it was extremely spectacular...

While looking at the electrodes and slowly pushing a wire contact
together in order to set off the ignitor spark, what occurred was
a massive green-tinted discharge across both gaps of the 3-point
electrode system I'm using.

I've implemented a HID ballast transformer and secondary transistor
array to charge up the LV side .7uf microwave capacitor, tapping a
common oscillator signal output. Out of the transformer the AC leads
into a CW multiplier and then into the mwave cap connected to 35 1A
1KV diodes.

The burst of energy has unfortunatly caused this LV portion of it
to become non-functional, while the transistors powering the cdi unit
were uneffected. It was sent straight into ground, also connected to
the grounds of each circuit component, for which reason I'm thinking
that the coil driver portions of this unit ought not to be grounded.

It has also managed to blow out my 555 chip while leaving the lm393
untouched. Both of my small-signal transistors for driving the oscillator
into the 2n3055's were also damaged, so for now it has left me out of
parts to continue.

Anyway troubleshooting aside - great results!

As far as getting it to work without blowing out components, does
my idea of isolating the circuitry from Ground sound like it will do
the trick?

[Aaron]

separate power supply

Sound like you got the effect down!

If you're charging both sides from the same power supply, that
can get glitchy.

My LV side, I simply had a variac with output through a 2kv bridge
to the LV caps. While the front side was running, I'd just slowly bring
the voltage up on the variac to make the blast stronger and stronger
and of course, a stronger and stronger pulse at the coil.

Anyway, I think a separate power supply is the way to go. Isolated
grounds between the power supply is ideal I believe but circuit ground
of course has to be common.

[Guest]

What I've got is 12v from an AT power supply in place of a battery,
a bunch of (-) leads, and one thick green cable near the power switch
that I've been hooking to ground... and this is where I hooked the
output from the blast onto that disabled my circuitry. It must have
gone through this green cable into the power supply and all the way
through to the individual components before completely passing into
the earth. Amazing...

Looking back at my diagrams, it doesn't appear that the circuits I've
built require being grounded... while I'm guessing it could improve
their performance and lifespan, isolating them instead is what I'll try
first, then if I still get destructive results it will point to the
way in which its built. Truly I can't imagine that this would be the
outcome, but anyway...

I've seen pictures of how this cold electricity might be harnessed to
power lightbulbs in the presence of contact with water & skin without
causing shock, although up until now it seems that in order to obtain
it, the object is to create a single large pulse that will turn coil
motors for generation of torque.

How has this lightbulb energy effect been accomplished?

Through the use of low-uf, high voltage capacitors providing near-instant
charging times in order to provide a seemingly constant stream of discharges?
While perhaps not useful for driving a motor, it would still be generating
the cold energy effect, drawing out the ZPE. Could they have somehow utilized
the vacuum tube in a similar way as did TH Moray and Tesla?

[Aaron]

joules and work

I've seen pictures of how this cold electricity might be harnessed to
power lightbulbs in the presence of contact with water & skin without
causing shock, although up until now it seems that in order to obtain
it, the object is to create a single large pulse that will turn coil
motors for generation of torque.

How has this lightbulb energy effect been accomplished?

Through the use of low-uf, high voltage capacitors providing near-instant
charging times in order to provide a seemingly constant stream of discharges?
While perhaps not useful for driving a motor, it would still be generating
the cold energy effect, drawing out the ZPE. Could they have somehow utilized
the vacuum tube in a similar way as did TH Moray and Tesla?

I cannot claim that this green plasma effect that can run motors is
identical to what Gray was doing and cannot vouch for any safety
in using this to safely light bulbs in water, etc... I haven't tried that
and don't plan to.

When these effects are scaled up to very large discharges like 4000v
at 12uf and so forth, perhaps different things manifest or more apparent
things manifest.

Besides being a very interesting and phenomenal way to run a motor,
the closest I saw to any anomalous energy happening is that the coil
repelled a 1/2 neo into the air to a height higher than the math says
that many joules in the cap are capable of lifting that weight. That
requires more testing and verification and nobody has tried to duplicate
it yet.

That was on a single manual discharge mode with CDI cap sitting charged
and LV booster cap sitting charged. Combining the joules of potential
should lift x weight to a certain height against gravity and it actually
shot it higher. This was almost 2 years ago.

Anyway, you mentioned calculating caps, here is a great calculator I
use all the time and you can download a free program to do it as well:
Electronics 2000 - Hobby Electronics - Software, Calculators, Technical Data, Pin-outs, Beginners Guide, Forum, Links...

This is the online calculator for potential in a cap:
Electronics 2000 | Capacitor Charge / Energy Calculator

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

Aaron,
I've been getting serious about this current pulse method. I tried a bit with a couple microwave oven high voltage diodes, but I couldn't get anything to work, so I was wondering if there was an other way to create the same effect. Just now I realized that this seems to be a way to recreate Tesla's displacement current system...

See if you follow me on this analogy:
The High Voltage and Low Voltage sides of the circuit are like the 2 halves of the secondaries of one of Tesla's Magnifying Transmitters. The ground is the same...ground, or secondary coil center tap. In these systems with balanced coils, the coils are wound in opposite directions, and tend to prevent current from flowing...just like Tesla said, no current could be measured despite the tremendous effects. So the transmitter and receiver secondaries would both reach a high positive voltage on their secondaries, out of phase by 180 degrees, but current didn't pass between them, and yet they can spark to each other. So the diodes simulate the effect of providing a voltage path but no current path, like the oppositely wound coils. The magic happens with the displacement current between the center tap ground and the positives.

Also,
I've been playing around with my big plasma ball lately and investigating displacement currents, auto discharges, and other neat effects visually by using the original power supply as a dynamic field source and a small t.v. flyback output as 2 additional static field sources.

[Guest]

With the CDI capacitors using 300ohms out of 120V, it would equate to 400mAh
going through, the equivalent of 1440 coulombs(C). With a 250V 22uf holding
5.5 millicoulombs, it seems as though there would be an incredible surplus
of charge going through to get a good enough rpm on the motor.

Then if the LV-side capacitor bank is holding 1000V at 5uF, surely 750mA
of 1000V emitting from a cascade multiplier would be more than sufficient
to keep it charged building it with ~10uF caps and a wirewound resistor
bank to draw out 1A.

Incredible calculator; thanks for pointing me at it -

It seems in this circuit there could be a lot of adaptability; after seeing
your video on recovery in 4 places it has me wondering by what comparison
it would have to this 3-point system.

In order to isolate the recovery system from the circuitry, a battery swapping
device as used on many Bedini systems seems like it would prove to be useful,
alternately switching two 12V batteries.

[Aaron]

Gray Tube experiments

I tried a bit with a couple microwave oven high voltage diodes, but I couldn't get anything to work

See if you follow me on this analogy:
The High Voltage and Low Voltage sides of the circuit are like the 2 halves of the secondaries of one of Tesla's Magnifying Transmitters. The ground is the same...ground, or secondary coil center tap.

...So the diodes simulate the effect of providing a voltage path but no current path, like the oppositely wound coils. The magic happens with the displacement current between the center tap ground and the positives.

Microwave oven diodes can work at very low power levels for example
with just a small cap for a CDI ignition for example to have a CDI do the
basic plasma bursts. They are at the right voltages but the amperage
rating of them are too low for running a larger motor on them with booster
caps in parallel. That is why I use large strings of 6A100 diodes -
the 6 amp 1000 volt diodes - cheap from mouser.

I think I get the gist of your example, but I do think the diodes allow
for current. However, I think it is simply current compressed into a much
smaller time window by having the LV cap for example be discharged
at a rate faster than an ambient discharge. Meaning to me it is evidence
of it discharging into a negative resistance.

[Aaron]

Gray Tube experiments

It seems in this circuit there could be a lot of adaptability; after seeing
your video on recovery in 4 places it has me wondering by what comparison
it would have to this 3-point system.

In order to isolate the recovery system from the circuitry, a battery swapping
device as used on many Bedini systems seems like it would prove to be useful,
alternately switching two 12V batteries.

The 4 place recovery vid demo, what 3 point system? Mine? If so,
it is the same 3 point system.

With the coil I'm using, it is a trifilar so the recovery is electrically isolated
from the rest of the circuit. Trigger wire is 26awg and the power and
recovery are 23awg. The power and recovery windings are wound in the
opposite directions. All 3 have 1000 turns.

That's a cool little swapper circuit. I don't have experience with some
of those components but in concept seems simple enough.

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

Aaron, the negative resistance is quite apparent, but it's from IMO the population inversion that occurs in the plasma of the tube, or the spark plug... whatever it is that the discharge occurs in. It is the exact same effect that allows lasing... coherent discharges... . It's because of magnetic confinement and charge separation that naturally takes place on the + and - parts of the discharge element. Without charge separation through magnetic confinement, a plasma would never be able to exist as a plasma in the fist place, it would be either conducting or non conducting. Once the electrostatic attraction force of the separated charges overcomes the magnetic and inertial confinement, a population inversion occurs.

I've been playing with my plasma ball, and did some test, and I can easily produce the 'magic radiant discharge' effect, and I'm working on a good way to harvest the displacement current. I need to start a thread about plasma balls and their relation to this type of thing, because it lets you visually see everything you're trying to understand about the circuit.

I have used a small tv's flyback DC hv output as a voltage source tied to two capacitor plates placed on the plasma globe. Without the globe running, the gas inside will undergo charge separation, and a dim glow emanates from the locations of the capacitor terminals. One plate has a bluish glow (the negative, which has positive plasma ions build up on it) and the other has a red glow (the positive, which collects negative ions). After a few seconds, the plasma can no longer withstand the charge separation, and it auto-discharges with a flash, producing the (radiant) effect.

If I pulse the plasma globe power supply(it has an audio modulation setting, so I clap or tap it or whatever to make it pulse once), with the h.v. capacitor terminals still connected to the globe, the radiant event is even greater, and the coherent flash is extremely bright.... Playing around with the ground to the h.v. I was able to pulse a fluorescent tube brighter than it could glow on its normal power supply with the displacement current that was generated, even though the discharge happened in a confined, separate element (the plasma globe)

[Aaron]

plasma discharge properties

It's because of magnetic confinement and charge separation that naturally takes place on the + and - parts of the discharge element. Without charge separation through magnetic confinement

I'm not sure if I get the idea of magnetic confinement. Confinement in
what sense - like I Penning Trap? That is one thing I wondered if the
Gray Tube was acting like.

Anyway, the plasma when visible I do not believe is being contained by
a magnetic field but the opposite. When the plasma is there, there are
thermionic emissions - basically electrons available for the ionized gases
to use to simply recombine so it stays in the local area because of that
and not because of a magnetic field.

There is a magnetic field that comes into play but is only apparent with
larger current discharges like what happens when using a booster cap
to increase the size of the plasma. What happens is the plasma is repelled
away from the gap BECAUSE of the magnetic field. The "Lorentz Force"
repels the plasma away from the gap, which is the opposite of a magnetic
field containing the plasma.

Maybe I'm reading your explanation wrong but the above is very known
with this plasma effect. Let me know.

[SuperCaviTationIstic]

What I'm trying to get at, is that when 2 unlike charges are separated from each other, but act on each other in magnetic and electric ways, the negative will spin in one direction and the positive in the other direction. The neutral in between will experience a shearing force on it, and because of that, depending on how strong the neutral barrier is, this neutral part will rupture, thus experience a charge transfer, but what we want is a population inversion, not a sparking charge transfer. The gray tube works by keeping the charge population way below this neutral rupturing critical level, then hits it with a burst to bring it up over that level extremely rapidly, causing a controlled population inversion,but because the neutral part doesn't have time to rip locally (spark), it is EXPLODED equally. You can also do it by charging it up to JUST BELOW the threshold, and then hitting it with a pulse bringing it over the top.

Now consider this.... If you FORCE the positive and negative charges to rotate IN THE SAME DIRECTION, by using 2 magnetic fields, then the neutral area has no shearing effect... it becomes a gear turning in the same direction as the two charged bunches. It can be made to be VERY VERY VERY thin because the force it experiences is now a purley compressional/expansion force, without the shearing. So you can DIRECTLY charge the gap to the threshold, and past it by adding confining magnetic fields. Then collapse or reverse one of the biasing magnetic fields and you have an EXPLOSIVE population inversion

Also, I believe that during the initial charging, the positive and negative are spinning in the same direction, because up until a certain point, the neutral part resists the shearing. Then as charge starts to build up, one of the flows reverses, and it's all down hill from there... premature discharging

[Guest]

The 4 place recovery vid demo, what 3 point system? Mine? If so,
it is the same 3 point system.

Its about 6min 10sec through when you've disconnected the meter from
the battery bank and then pan over to the hanging series of diodes, that
wasn't connected. In your video showing the 3-point plasma outside the
tube, as well as the other - there's a definite 'flash' burst not present
in the 4-place recovery tape. This is the energy I'm curious about,
having it go on through the motor and pass into a (-) battery terminal
on its way to ground.

After seeing no damage to my grounded components after many a normal plasma
discharge from the ignition coil to ground, then having them utterly destroyed
by a single one of these Green-type plasmas, it gives me a good feeling about
its usefulness when properly harnessed.

[Aaron]

green plasma

Its about 6min 10sec through when you've disconnected the meter from
the battery bank and then pan over to the hanging series of diodes, that
wasn't connected. In your video showing the 3-point plasma outside the
tube, as well as the other - there's a definite 'flash' burst not present
in the 4-place recovery tape. This is the energy I'm curious about,
having it go on through the motor and pass into a (-) battery terminal
on its way to ground.

After seeing no damage to my grounded components after many a normal plasma
discharge from the ignition coil to ground, then having them utterly destroyed
by a single one of these Green-type plasmas, it gives me a good feeling about
its usefulness when properly harnessed.

Interesting, not sure why the 4 recovery vid doesn't show the green burst.
It is there in person. As long as an inductor is in series with the plasma
effect, it is green. Take away the inductor and it is more white.

For example:



It's actually really a pretty color.

I did countless tests to show the comparison with just the plasma and
no inductor with many different metals and then did a lot with inductors
and different metals. I showed conclusively that the green came as a
result from the inductor changing the properties of the plasma.

The reason I did these test was because so many people kept telling me
it was green from the copper but of course, they didn't do any of the
experiments.

Notice I have all the same metals - copper rods and copper grid for
both of the above. Normal plasma white with copper but just add inductor
and it is green with copper. So it isn't copper getting oxidized or whatever.

Someone in the water sparkplug thread said I created a "slow" plasma
by doing this. I haven't looked into it enough to see what this means.

I stumbled up on this by adding an inductor originally because I was trying
to restrict current at the plasma gap thinking that if I prevent more
electrons from getting in the gap that the plasma igniting water moisture
wouldn't have enough electrons to reassemble back to water and therefore
may give a real thermal explosion instead of it just imploding back on itself.

And the plasma was quiet. Notice you hear it, but it is muffled. If there
was no inductor, that plasma in the vids would all be white and VERY
VERY loud but instead, the rotor winding up is the loudest part.

I noticed immediately the inductor that I was using as a current limiting
choke (really a spool of wire) - was jumping with each pulse and that is
when the light went off. Whether it has anything to do with Gray, I can't
prove but in literal analogy his patent, I haven't seen anything else that
matches it.

Anyway, in the 4 recovery vid, the plasma would be greenish and I'm not
sure why the camera didn't capture it. The camera never does the light
or sound justice anyway.

I've been doing some experiments lately, not necessarily on this Gray
stuff, but it is related and I think I have simplified it greatly for builders.
I haven't had a lot of time outside of my main project but when I do,
I'll try to post some vids and pics or something.

If it makes you feel better, I've destroyed boxes of components in these
experiments including countless cheap harbor freight volt meters. lol

The timing was always the trickiest and next time, I want to use a
hall effect sensor instead of a reed relay switch or I might try opto.
That was a serious pain using that reed the way I did.

[Guest]

It looks like the problem I was having did not have to do with the
transistors or other components.

I've just finished reconstructing it all nearly from the beginning, and
after unhooking the circuitry from ground have found that upon obtaining
the radiant burst -



- it is instead the transformers that are blowing out! Previously I
lost my LV-charger side, and upon rebuilding the HV plasma supply unhooked
the driver from the microwave transformer and connected it to the one
on the side that stopped working. It heated up the transistors and did
not produce a viable output voltage... after which I hooked it back on
to the m-wave transformer and it worked fine. The pics are from having
a 6v dc wall adapter on the LV side hooked to a CW multiplier feeding
a 2000v .7uf m-wave capacitor in place of the HID ballast transformer.

All of my transformers have now stopped working, except perhaps the ignition coil.

I'll could draw up a diagram of what I've got, but it is basically just
two transistor coil-driving circuits sharing a common signal input, each
hooked to a different transformer and everything sharing a common (-) return.

I'm having a hard time understanding this and how it may be fixed.
Upon firing up the bursts as shown above I noticed a definite (*clack*) sound
emitting from near the microwave transformer - quite loud, although it may
have been a strange reflection of sound from somewhere else. Anyway, unless
there's some way to fix what I've done to them I'll have to obtain new ones
or find another way of generating the 2-300V out of my 12V signal.