Gray Tube Replication

[Spokane1]

Ed's Work?

6. All of Ed's work appeared to go up in smoke after Marvin Cole left and the technology used, all of a sudden changed to what the new guy was familiar with and in this is a BIG mistake as the originator left with the Gold and left Ed with an empty bucket.
Richard Hackenburger (ex transistor Silicon Valley) probably did his best and those that followed but the original concept died with Cole as I would suggest that those that followed were not responsive to the 'cold electricity' concept.
I would be very much looking at only the data that is available from the time of Cole and nothing more to 1972 when he departed.
Too many cooks etc!
This is where the unnecessary complexity enters and is typical of a solid state methodology - might be smaller but does it do the same job as the original design components - NO, it doesn't!
Robert Beck knew something was awry before he withdrew his application.


Smokey

Dear Smokey,

Item #1

Ed didn't do any work. He didn't have a clue as to how this stuff actually worked he just wanted to sell it and make millions for himself. He was just lucky that Marvin was a friend of his when they got the half baked original idea from Andre Poppoff. Marvin did all the technical work from 1957 to 1964 Gray came back and seems to have been involved in finding investors. For some reason Marvin left in 1971 (or so) and gave all the hardware to Gray, who then claimed it as his work. Perhaps Marvin got sick and tired of working with a crook and didn't want to be around when the cops showed up.

Item #2

There is no indication that Marvin left with any money at all. And if Ed had an empty bucket it was because he spent all the money on Wine, Women, Song, Gambling, limos, and expensive hotel rooms. The actual research budget was always being cut back to service Ed's immediate needs.

Item #3

The original concept did not die with Marvin Cole but with Mr. Hackenberger. It took him a few years to figure it out and when he did he made significant improvements on the technology. He reduced the size of the engine by 66%, reduced the complexity of the circuits, upgraded to solid state in some places, and cut the manufacturing costs by 70%. Most of all he increased the power output by a factor of 10.

Item #4

There is no technical data, photos, or documents prior to 1973. All I have are stories from family members and zip on any technical information. So, you are out of luck (like the rest of us) as to what was actually happening prior to 1973. I would certainly like to know myself.

Item #5

If you think the recovered Motors are complex then take another closer look at the EMA4 and follow those 128 wires back to the commutator. That was a rats nest compared to the EMA6 and later models.

Item #6

According to Peter Lindeman Mr. Beck declined the job offer when he quickly learned that Gray was not the originator of this technology. How would you feel if someone offered you a job to make them rich by getting someone else's discovery to work. Mr. Beck was not the first to be offered this kind of deal.

Mark McKay

[Wicaksono]

pointed top chopped dc

We don't know what we are looking for other than a scope trace that looks like a "Haystack" in an unloaded condition and then migrates to a square wave when under a load. Had Mr. Hackenberger been more specific I wouldn't be spending my weekends testing out wired circuit configurations.
He also said that the "Chopped DC" had a pointed top. That may have meant something to him but I can't follow his description at all. To me a square wave doesn't have a pointed top. Now a triangular or saw-tooth wave does but he didn't say that.

Is it possible that Mr. Hackenberger described a low duty cycle pulse or square wave ? If seen on oscilloscope it will look like a nail pointed upward.

Wicaksono

[Arker]

Delay line

Good day dear Spokane1,


I read your post of May 5 (#2807), for which I thank you. And I want to reassure you : I never considered the FFF as a delay line :

That length of cable is far to short to have much of a delay line.

(Except that some years ago, well before I knew this forum, I have studied the FFF as PFN (computations and lab). However all PFN is also a delay line, since PFN is a artificial transmission line. But it was not this function "delay" of PFN that interested me -was this the sculpture of signal.)

And then, I don't see here the interest a delay line. (It seems to me that the patent indicate it just like a classic strategy of illusionists : steer attention on the wrong trail. Probably unintentionally on the part Dr. Chaffin ; because in fig.1 Marvin Cole had drawn the FFF as a block of bifilars, whose the delay's properties are classically used in HF, as also those of coaxials. Myself I had a bifilar as delay line in my old Tektronix oscilloscope.)

[Arker]

what's that, blue engine ?

Dear Spokane1, I also carefully read your post #2808 where you speak of "Blue Engine", and "Push-Pull resonant converters" (you already quoted this converters in your post #2787 of april 7).

- I do not know these montages, and I wanted to know of what you speak ...

- On Google-France I found nothing. So I searched in english but it's not easy, I found for example this hindi mounting in semi-resonance series ; is it representative ?

- If this is not the case, can you please give me a web link ? (the most representative among your 27 models).

- (Not more, dear Mark. Because for the moment I do not want to deepen these inverters : I just want to know what you're talking in your post #2808.)




Blue Engine Power Supply

- What is it Mark ?

- Is the blue box ? (that GD had brought home with the black-box).

- Or is it the power supply of the "Blue-motor" ? (the EMA-7 of 1979).

- Do you speak from GD's pictures ? Or is it that you bought this device ?



The "copper" inside Blue Engine

- This sheets, you has hands or on pictures ?

- Who has assembled ? Is this Hack ?

- How many sheets 2.7" x 60" x 0.020" there he has ? Is it five ?

- Is that the leaves are rolled in cylinder ? or stacked flat ?

- What are the final external dimensions ?

- The leaves 2.7" x 60" x 0.020" are connected in series (or parallel) ?

- 60" is the total length or individual ?

- Is the insulation overflows from each side ? Or is it the copper overflows on each side ? (Or the copper overflow at one end, and insulation overflows at the other end ?)

- Section of 1 sheet is 0.054 square inches (0.02 x 2.7) or 34.8 square millimeters, which is equivalent to the large wire AWG-2.

- In a HV capacity, it is especially the characteristic of dielectric that is important, not the thickness of the electrodes,

- if it is not an capa, why Hack has not he simply used wire AWG-2 ?

- The answer might be for the skin effect. In this case I calculated that with thickness 0.51 mm, the maximum frequency to escape to the skin effect would be 17 KHz.

- (This is mostly in the parallel résonance, for a good increase in intensity, that it is classically useful to safeguard against the skin effect.) (And, for a good quality factor : the coil is small, the capacity is large ; it's the reverse, in series resonance).



Well, dear Mark, this is probably useless for me to speculate thus, when I still don't understand the details of your post #2808.

Friendly,
Arker

[Stephen Brown]

Better link to Kapanadze paper

Hello Mark,
Some Notes I have made for consideration.


3. We are not looking at electricity as such but something else which we call 'cold electricity' but how do you achieve this phenomena and one such idea is translated here from the Russians in that you extract this from the ground - see Page 9.
Once again, we see a circuit that is not attached to the previous and in that we exclude any losses that may be gained by an 'Energy Synthesis' at any point in an organisation.

http://vfedtec.com/doc/kapanadze/kapanadze.pdf



Smokey

Mark,

Index for /doc

This link will get you to the paper above. It's worth the read.
This thread is wonderful. Thanks for all the info.
All info is in PDF

[Spokane1]

The Kapanadze Documents

Mark,

Index for /doc

This link will get you to the paper above. It's worth the read.
This thread is wonderful. Thanks for all the info.
All info is in PDF

Dear Stephen,

The link worked fine and I was able to quickly download all of the documents.

In a brief scan it appears that it will be a good read, but it seems to be all resonance theory with no actual experimentation. I suppose the original YouTube video displayed the hardware that was being used.

Thanks for the reference information.

Mark Mckay

[Spokane1]

To Make things more Clear

Blue Engine Power Supply

- What is it Mark ?

- Is the blue box ? (that GD had brought home with the black-box).

- Or is it the power supply of the "Blue-motor" ? (the EMA-7 of 1979).

- Do you speak from GD's pictures ? Or is it that you bought this device ?



The "copper" inside Blue Engine

- This sheets, you has hands or on pictures ?

- Who has assembled ? Is this Hack ?

- How many sheets 2.7" x 60" x 0.020" there he has ? Is it five ?

- Is that the leaves are rolled in cylinder ? or stacked flat ?

- What are the final external dimensions ?

- The leaves 2.7" x 60" x 0.020" are connected in series (or parallel) ?

- 60" is the total length or individual ?

- Is the insulation overflows from each side ? Or is it the copper overflows on each side ? (Or the copper overflow at one end, and insulation overflows at the other end ?)

- Section of 1 sheet is 0.054 square inches (0.02 x 2.7) or 34.8 square millimeters, which is equivalent to the large wire AWG-2.

- In a HV capacity, it is especially the characteristic of dielectric that is important, not the thickness of the electrodes,

- if it is not an capa, why Hack has not he simply used wire AWG-2 ?

- The answer might be for the skin effect. In this case I calculated that with thickness 0.51 mm, the maximum frequency to escape to the skin effect would be 17 KHz.

- (This is mostly in the parallel résonance, for a good increase in intensity, that it is classically useful to safeguard against the skin effect.) (And, for a good quality factor : the coil is small, the capacity is large ; it's the reverse, in series resonance).
Arker

Dear Arker,

The Blue Engine Power Supply is an actual recovered original circuit that is now in the possession of Al Francoeur of Yak, DC (Canada). It is thought to have been the power supply for the Blue Engine (1979). It is a transistor switch mode power supply that has two meters on it. 0-5 kV and 0-5 Amperes. It appears to operate from 28 VDC.
This recovered hardware was offered for sale in 2010 by John Riley of Canyon Country, CA. Al received this power supply as part of a lot of equipment that included the "Gold Motor".

Most of the rest of your other questions deal with my attempted reproduction of this power supply. It is my understanding that the primary of the transformer was made from copper sheet, so I fabricated primaries from .020" copper sheet. These had to fit the large Ferrite core I was able to purchase from eBay. My secondary is composed of 185 turns of Litz wire composed of 19 each # 28 magnet wires.

This is the transformer I'm attempting to operate to produce some Cold Electricity. So far no luck.

Mark McKay

[Spokane1]

Pointed Chopped DC

Is it possible that Mr. Hackenberger described a low duty cycle pulse or square wave ? If seen on oscilloscope it will look like a nail pointed upward.

Wicaksono

Dear Wicaksono,

That is as good a guess as any. Technically you are correct a square wave with a short duty cycle is still a square wave. Generally I think of a square wave as having a duty cycle between 50%- to 70% or so. But when we are looking for unseen phenomena we need to broaden our definitions.

I tend to shy away from these kinds of low duty cycle wave forms since they contain very little energy, but I could be doing my self a disservice in doing so.

Mark McKay

[Spokane1]

The FFF as a Dely Line

Good day dear Spokane1,


I read your post of May 5 (#2807), for which I thank you. And I want to reassure you : I never considered the FFF as a delay line :

(Except that some years ago, well before I knew this forum, I have studied the FFF as PFN (computations and lab). However all PFN is also a delay line, since PFN is a artificial transmission line. But it was not this function "delay" of PFN that interested me -was this the sculpture of signal.)

And then, I don't see here the interest a delay line. (It seems to me that the patent indicate it just like a classic strategy of illusionists : steer attention on the wrong trail. Probably unintentionally on the part Dr. Chaffin ; because in fig.1 Marvin Cole had drawn the FFF as a block of bifilars, whose the delay's properties are classically used in HF, as also those of coaxials. Myself I had a bifilar as delay line in my old Tektronix oscilloscope.)

Dear Arker,

The Patent text for the Pulse Engine specifically describes the Floating flux Field (FFF) as being a Delay Line. The actual words are something like "...is thought to be a Delay Line." So, that functional description is that of Dr. Chalphin's (the patent writer) and not mine. I doubt if E.V. Gray knew what a delay line was. He thought it was a device to suppress RF interference, which it might do a little bit of that like a common mode choke in an line
EMI filter. However I don't know what kind of band width this sort of device would have. I have never looked into it from that angle.

Perhaps when Mr. Hackenberger moved up to resonant solid state power supplies the EMI problem was greatly diminished and they no longer needed this extra device. But who knows?

Mark McKay

[bmentink]

Hi Guys,

Just an update on my spark testing.

As mentioned earlier with 3kv HV and a 1mm spark gap and 166nF cap, I am getting a 1cm plasma ball around my gap blue/purple in colour.

If I add an inductor to the LV side of the spark gap and put the gap in a strong "opposing" magnetic field (i.e. N poles facing), then I get a "green" plasma burst that extends several cm away from the gap.

Note the green color is NOT dependent on electrode material type. It seems placing the inductor in line causes the green color and does help with the plasma energy ..

I havn't tried putting an inductor in the positive HV side of the gap, as this would be problematic due to the HV, although a large air cored coil might work.

Next step is to see what effect connecting the inductor to a 12v battery +ve does to the energy in the spark, and also the addition of a resistor and/or graphite block on the LV side

To help with this testing I will use a home-built "longitudinal wave" detector, so I can see what my changes are doing (modified microwave detector) ..

Cheers,
Bernie.

[Spokane1]

CEST Replication Experiments

Hi Guys,

If I add an inductor to the LV side of the spark gap and put the gap in a strong "opposing" magnetic field (i.e. N poles facing), then I get a "green" plasma burst that extends several cm away from the gap.

Bernie.

Dear Bernie,

You appear to be getting some pretty good visual performance from your setup with just a 1mm gap and the .166 uF capacitor. I have not observed plasma balls that large at such a low voltage. Nor have I seen green arcs using copper, steel, or brass electrodes. Most of my HV experience is with ignition coils and Neon Transformers. The waveform of a Fly-back transformer is not in my experience profile, even though I have many on hand.

Do you have a scope and the proper probes to observe the pulse output? I'm guessing that the current pulse from your capacitor is saturating the Fly-back transformer and thus there is probably producing a rich selection of various odd harmonics as the core goes through its oscillations and that might be responsible for the novel effects you are observing.

Who knows, you might have come across the proper component dimensions the provide the proper window of operation that allow these phenomena to manifest.

I was wondering what you were describing with the statement above? In your #2792 post you didn't mention anything about opposing magnetic fields. Do you have some magnets (or electromagnets) involved with your setup?

Then I was wondering how you plan to harvest your energy and then test it? Perhaps you have not gotten that far and are just taking small steps to see how things turn out. In this filed that is a very valid way to proceed.

Keep up the good bench work,

Mark McKay

[bmentink]

Dear Bernie,


I was wondering what you were describing with the statement above? In your #2792 post you didn't mention anything about opposing magnetic fields. Do you have some magnets (or electromagnets) involved with your setup?

Hi Mark,

Yes, while waiting for my Thyratron to arrive, I wanted to shorten the arc time by magnetic quenching the spark, so I had some Neo magnets lying around and used some of those on a U shaped iron, so that they surrounded the spark gap, like poles produced the best effect ..

I may or may not continue to use the magnets when my Thyratron arrives ..

Then I was wondering how you plan to harvest your energy and then test it? Perhaps you have not gotten that far and are just taking small steps to see how things turn out. In this filed that is a very valid way to proceed.

Keep up the good bench work,

Mark McKay

I havn't got to that point yet, I have my tube built, but waiting on some copper mesh to arrive .. small steps is good I feel ..

Thanks for the encouragement ..

Bernie

[Wicaksono]

lorentz force on plasma ball

Hi Guys,

Just an update on my spark testing.

As mentioned earlier with 3kv HV and a 1mm spark gap and 166nF cap, I am getting a 1cm plasma ball around my gap blue/purple in colour.

If I add an inductor to the LV side of the spark gap and put the gap in a strong "opposing" magnetic field (i.e. N poles facing), then I get a "green" plasma burst that extends several cm away from the gap.

Note the green color is NOT dependent on electrode material type. It seems placing the inductor in line causes the green color and does help with the plasma energy ..

I havn't tried putting an inductor in the positive HV side of the gap, as this would be problematic due to the HV, although a large air cored coil might work.

Next step is to see what effect connecting the inductor to a 12v battery +ve does to the energy in the spark, and also the addition of a resistor and/or graphite block on the LV side

To help with this testing I will use a home-built "longitudinal wave" detector, so I can see what my changes are doing (modified microwave detector) ..

Cheers,
Bernie.

Hello Bernie, the green plasma that burst several centimeters is definitely caused by lorentz force from magnet that interact with plasma current. 1 cm diameter plasma ball is quite big for 166nF capacitor charged to 3KV, what is the type of capacitor and where did you get it ?

Wicaksono

[bmentink]

Hello Bernie, the green plasma that burst several centimeters is definitely caused by lorentz force from magnet that interact with plasma current. 1 cm diameter plasma ball is quite big for 166nF capacitor charged to 3KV, what is the type of capacitor and where did you get it ?

Wicaksono

Hi Wicaksono,

I found it was the combination of the inductor in the LV side PLUS the opposing magnetic field that caused the effect .. the inductor delays the electron flow which allows the plasma to form with more energy.

As per my original post, I made a capacitor bank from some high quality 1uF 1Kv caps and put them all in series, the key is the QUALITY i.e. ESR rating and pulse current handling and low inductance especially .. I will find out the part no and post it when I find the copy of the part order....

Regarding the caps, Tesla stated that it was all in the capacitors, they are the key to getting maximum effect, he spent a lot of time perfecting capacitors to get high discharge pulse currents ... we have the ability now to create some impressive capacitor banks compared to his time ... i.e. my cap bank is only 20mohm ESR total and can dump 800 Amps (800A @ 3Kv is 2.4MW peak power !!) This assumes large small leads to the spark gap .. ( strips of copper is good)

NOTE: Don't get hung up on capacitance values ... the capacitance value is not the key, it's all about pulse current for a SHORT time ..

Cheers,
Bernie

[bmentink]

Dear Wicaksono,

I tend to shy away from these kinds of low duty cycle wave forms since they contain very little energy, but I could be doing my self a disservice in doing so.

Mark McKay

You are right Mark, you are doing yourself a disservice .. the ENERGY we want is not coming from the the pulse energy, the only reason for the pulse is to stimulate the Aether into producing the energy for us ... to do that, we want to give a short hard hit! i.e. very short uni-directional pulse with no reverse flow ..
That is how Tesla did it .. <-- ...could not find a light bulb

Bernie