Gray Tube Replication

[dmonarch]

Manufacturing of a gray tube

I have been wondering how i could possiblly pull a vacuum on a gray tube. There has to be a simple way of simply modifying an existing valve and pulling the vacuum once again I would appreciate any ideas

Aaron your the expert it would seem. Do you think that the gray tube utilizes radiant matter? Could it be that a vacuum does need to be pulled upon it and that the area of the collector determines the power gain? Does it seem plausible that for the event to be created that a hv discharge from a collapsing coil is required?
Did gray follow in Crookes footsteps or was it Tesla's? Do you think it possible that teslas requirement for a very HV source is circumvented by a vacuated tube. Also is it possible that the unidrectional pulse mentiioned by tesla and done so with a quenched spark is created just the same by a vacuated tube.

Would appreciate any ones experience in these areas

[Aaron]

Radiant Matter Posts moved

Radiant Matter / Crookes posts have been moved here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...nt-matter.html

[Aaron]

vacuum

I have been wondering how i could possiblly pull a vacuum on a gray tube. There has to be a simple way of simply modifying an existing valve and pulling the vacuum once again I would appreciate any ideas

Aaron your the expert it would seem. Do you think that the gray tube utilizes radiant matter? Could it be that a vacuum does need to be pulled upon it and that the area of the collector determines the power gain? Does it seem plausible that for the event to be created that a hv discharge from a collapsing coil is required?
Did gray follow in Crookes footsteps or was it Tesla's? Do you think it possible that teslas requirement for a very HV source is circumvented by a vacuated tube. Also is it possible that the unidrectional pulse mentiioned by tesla and done so with a quenched spark is created just the same by a vacuated tube.

Would appreciate any ones experience in these areas

Not sure if I'm the expert but I did pulse a magnet from the grids so that counts for something

Maybe you can use a plastic tube and fit one of those valves for vacuum bags to compact clothes on it. The kind that you use a hand pump to suck the air out of the bags. The valve might be able to be fit onto the tube.

One of Gray's original tubes was glass from a Coleman Lantern - so there was no way that could have had a vacuum inside.

[Beshires1]

Aaron, I'm curious as why there is a Pot or rheostat symbol inside the Grey"s tube in the patent schematic drawings? It is not in the large drawing of the Tube. Also in the description it do say that he incorporated "A resistive device to aid in controlling the amount of current drawn from the energy source (Battery)." And again in column 6 Item 50 it refers to it as a "variable resistor".

[dmonarch]

Good at what you do

If you good at what you do and have experience it would be silly of me to ignore or not respect that. When it comes to electronics hands on i am like a fart in the wind.

Not sure if I'm the expert but I did pulse a magnet from the grids so that counts for something

Maybe you can use a plastic tube and fit one of those valves for vacuum bags to compact clothes on it. The kind that you use a hand pump to suck the air out of the bags. The valve might be able to be fit onto the tube.

One of Gray's original tubes was glass from a Coleman Lantern - so there was no way that could have had a vacuum inside.

[Matthew Jones]

Aaron

This is in reference to http://www.esmhome.org/library/edwin...tubediode1.jpg

I read the stuff over at PS wiki. The simple test is not working out the way you have described. Mind you I'm not doubting your theories I just wanted to try it and see.
A complete battery setup was not giving me results at all on the meter. So I tried an empty capacitor in place of the low voltage. I also used 36 volt on the high voltage side. Maybe my diode needs to be what you use but I tried several.
What I have see with a cap is nothing is transfered back through the diode. UNLESS I am holding my meter lead to the positive of the the low voltage side. If I clip the meter to the lead and do not touch it the effect does not happen. So From what I can see the transfer of energy happens through my skin and not the diode.
I wanted to try the second test but I was hoping to see results from the first test, before going on.

Matt

[Electrotek]

A battery is not needed for the circuit to work.

In Gray's Pat. #4661747, column 5, lines 47 to 58 reads:

Let it be stated here that substituting a source of electric alternating-current subject to the required current and/or voltage shaping and/or timing, either prior to being considered a primary energy source,or thereafter,should not be construed to change the described utilization or application of primary energy in any way. Such energy conversion is readily achieved by any of a multitude of well established principles. The preferred embodiment of this invention merely assumes optimum utilization and optimum benefit from this invention when used with portable energy devices similar in principle to the wet-cell or dry-cell battery.

Figure 5 (the left hand side of Fig. 1) includes switch 64 to change over between battery and AC power.

Various individuals have built and tested CSETs. These tests have not included a battery, unless it's to power an inverter. If a battery is included in the circuit, as shown, it will provide a resistance to the HV, but the HV will still flow through the battery, even with the battery's voltage in opposition, as Bedinni has shown with the three small batteries demonstration.

Without a battery in series with the CSET, the circuit in the patent is correct, as far as the diode polarity. Electrons flow from the filament to the plate, so the cathode of the thyratron has to be connected to the cap's negative pole.

[Electrotek]

Variable Resistor

Aaron, I'm curious as why there is a Pot or rheostat symbol inside the Grey"s tube in the patent schematic drawings? It is not in the large drawing of the Tube. Also in the description it do say that he incorporated "A resistive device to aid in controlling the amount of current drawn from the energy source (Battery)." And again in column 6 Item 50 it refers to it as a "variable resistor".

I just finished reading through the patent again, so I'll reply to this question. The patent states that a resistive element "all in a piece, or in segments" can be used. When using segments, the resistor would be variable. This way, the appropriate value could be determined for a specific application.

[Aaron]

variable resistor

Aaron, I'm curious as why there is a Pot or rheostat symbol inside the Grey"s tube in the patent schematic drawings? It is not in the large drawing of the Tube. Also in the description it do say that he incorporated "A resistive device to aid in controlling the amount of current drawn from the energy source (Battery)." And again in column 6 Item 50 it refers to it as a "variable resistor".

Hi Beshires, I've seen that on the patents but there is nothing outside of that to indicate that Gray used a variable resistor to my knowledge.

Sometimes things are put into patents just to cover the concepts without any intent of using that concept.

[Aaron]

getting the effect

Aaron

This is in reference to http://www.esmhome.org/library/edwin...tubediode1.jpg

I read the stuff over at PS wiki. The simple test is not working out the way you have described. Mind you I'm not doubting your theories I just wanted to try it and see.
A complete battery setup was not giving me results at all on the meter. So I tried an empty capacitor in place of the low voltage. I also used 36 volt on the high voltage side. Maybe my diode needs to be what you use but I tried several.
What I have see with a cap is nothing is transfered back through the diode. UNLESS I am holding my meter lead to the positive of the the low voltage side. If I clip the meter to the lead and do not touch it the effect does not happen. So From what I can see the transfer of energy happens through my skin and not the diode.
I wanted to try the second test but I was hoping to see results from the first test, before going on.

Matt

Hi Matt,

A cap on the LV side will work fine, that is what I have also done.

You need a diode that will show a voltage at the cathode when the annode is connected to the + of the LV source. Just put the neg of meter on ground and pos on the cathode of diode and you should see about 1 volt or less than the battery.

For example, on my LV side, I was using various cap banks. For example when I had one cap bank charged to about 400v (doesn't need to be charged), the diode cathode showed about 395v or so.

Of course each diode will have different ratings of what is necessary to have it open and close.

If you can't do it with the battery, do it with the ignition coil one, which a better test. I believe you can't not get it to work with the ignition coil example. The battery one should work fine even if you have a cap on the LV side.

On the water sparkplug circuit, I hooked it up so the relay was just pulsing the coil and there was no other diodes to get the plasma effect or anything. It was just simply pulsing the ignition coil making a spark.

What I did was place a cap and diode in between the spark plug ground and ground on ignition coil.

(ignition coil ground)(neg on cap)(pos of cap)(diode annode)(diode cathode)(spark plug ground)

Just like I showed in the diagram. With each pulse, the cap just kept climbing and climbing. It worked 100% exactly like I am describing.

[boguslaw]

I'm not sure but maybe vacuum triode/diode acts differently then ordinary silicon one.Does somebody has experience with such devices ? Maybe positive voltage potential flow where it sees a negative one no matter if this is low voltage ground or a bunch of secondary emission electrons ?

[Matthew Jones]

You need a diode that will show a voltage at the cathode when the annode is connected to the + of the LV source. Just put the neg of meter on ground and pos on the cathode of diode and you should see about 1 volt or less than the battery.

I get a voltage at increase at the cathode when the switch is closed but it is the High voltage side giving me the reading. I am using 12/24 combo and with the switch open I get the 12 volt on the lowside with the switch closed I get 24 volt from the high side. This is obvoius why that happens.

But and I just tested it while I was writing this post, you can see the initial flow on the scope. It does make the line jump. GOOD NEWS...
Its also turning on the trigger light of my scope under "self triggering". So that means somthing flows for sure.

I'll try the other one.

Matt

[Aaron]

diode test

Hi Matt,

I'm glad your test showed there is something.

In this vid:YouTube - Gray Tube Demonstration Proof of Concept
From 1:00 to 1:45

I show the LV rod "ground" going to the cathode of a diode, which has the annode connected to the positive of that cap bank. This is exacly like in my diagram. The neg of the caps are going right back to the neg of the ignition coil. The HV jumps the gap as described. Then, it shuts off and has to go to grids.

That diode I'm using in that vid is around 15kv microwave diode.

The caps are 200v 330uf photoflash caps. I had 4 in a square. 2 sets in series that were paralleled together. The ground to them were connected to the neg of the ignition coil. I didn't have them charged, but on a multimeter, the voltage on them climbed a bit on each pulse from the HV just like Gray said.

"part goes to the battery"

[Matthew Jones]

That diode I'm using in that vid is around 15kv microwave diode.

I suspect the bigger the diode the longer it takes to close. I wonder if this is along the same lines as what Bearden talks about when he speaks of stalling the electron? So the Non divergent energy flow can collect in the cap?
I think that was "Final free energy secrets" or somthing like that.

Is the Tube you have vacuum sealed or just closed up? What kind of coil are you using(brand and model if availible)

I got to try one of this out.

Matt

[Electrotek]

Plate Current

I'm not sure but maybe vacuum triode/diode acts differently then ordinary silicon one.Does somebody has experience with such devices ? Maybe positive voltage potential flow where it sees a negative one no matter if this is low voltage ground or a bunch of secondary emission electrons ?

One of my favorite toys is a '1B3' HV rectifier from a TV. This is a diode, although it has a filament, grid, and plate. The top of the grid is connected to the top of the filament, so the positive end of the heater voltage goes through the grid. (This is the opposite of the *747 patent, which shows the grid connected to the plate.)

Using this tube, I've gotten bidirectional current, due to secondary emission. It's been quite a while, but if I remember the set-up correctly, a small flashlight battery was wired across the grid/filament, including a switch. A short piece of stranded #10 awg wire was soldered to the top cap, from the plate. Using 7.5kV NST, one wire was clipped to the negative of the filament, and the other wire was positioned as a spark gap to the top hat's output wire. These wires were #16 gauge.

For the experiment, another wire was clipped to the positive side of the grid/filament, with the other end of this wire connected to the outer cylinder of what Bruce Perault calls a Glo-regulator. This was a 3/4" brass tube, with a 1/16" tungsten alloy central electrode rod. When I turned the NST on, the filament suddenly started glowing a bright yellow, instead of the usual dull red. After about a second, three tiny little corkscrew sparks started growing from a single point at one end of the tungsten rod. These sparks were fanned out from each other at about a 30 degree angle, and grew to more than a inch long after a few seconds. Each corkscrew spark slowly got bigger until it was about a mm in diameter, around 2/3 of the distance along the length, then got smaller the rest of the way. The sparks each ended in a tiny point, out in mid air.

I turned it off right away, since I didn't want the filament to burn out. I then checked the big wire from the plate electrode, and it was fairly hot, although the smaller wires weren't noticeably warm. Due to this heat, and the brightness of the filament, I figured that the tube was producing secondary emission electrons from the plate, and that these 'extra' electrons were being pumped by the Glo-regulator. In this experiment, the '1B3' was acting as a Farnsworth Tube, shown in Pat. #2071517. (Since Farnsworth invented the TV, he may have designed this tube as well. The plate appears to be made of the type of metal he specifies.) This same patent shows that the magnetic flux tips 90 degrees to the side when the electric potential flips 180. So the corkscrew sparks were apparently a negative, or South Pole, magnetic force.

I have another circuit which is a high powered version of the Water Sparkplug circuit - at least it's similar and produces the same kind of effect. When I discharge this circuit through a light bulb, the bulb explodes. The filament is left intact, but one of the thin tungsten support wires is vaporized. Since the Water Sparkplug circuit is so close to what Ed Gray was doing, I doubt that he was using this type of vacuum diode. The patent does call it a "one way" energy path, but I've learned that you can't always trust everything a patent says. It's quite posible that there was some kind of secondary emission effect in the tube he was using, which John Bedinni says was a thyratron. That's the tremendous value of Luc's circuit. Aaron has shown how to use it to dump a secondary cap, so an expensive IGBT isn't needed for the CSET.

Here's my spark plug circuit. Until now, I couldn't use it with a spark plug, because the plug would also explode. Now I know there are non resistor plugs, so I'll try it again.

http://www.freewebs.com/attatchments/pics/setup.jpg