Gray Tube Replication

[Beshires1]

It look like a pancake coil to me.

[Spokane1]

E.V. Gray's technical skill myth

This chapter 5 has a very interesting piece about Gray and his tube:

Edwin Gray worked as a US Air Force engineer and machine-shop technician. Having discussed the matter with an associate of Nikola Tesla,

Gentlemen,

It is unfortunate, but E.V.Gray was not the technical genius that we might have hoped him to be. He was never in the US Air Force, never attended advance Engineering school in the military, or did anything in electronics. He was a auto-body fender man by trade. He ran three business ventures into the ground because of a gambling habit. All the reports about his technical credentials were fabricated for the benifit of the 1973 tabloid reporters. All this information comes from his second son Dr. James Gray who has two PhD's with one in Mechanical Engineering.

Mr. Gray's understanding of electricity never went beyond DC automotive electricity. According to his technician in the 80's Nelson Schlaft "Rocky", "Gray didn't know Ohms Law".

So all the speculatative comments about Gray doing this and Gray doing that are completly unfounded. Mr. Gray hired a string of technicians in a vain attempt to reconstruct this loss technology that had his un-dieing faith (and with good reason). Mr. Gray spent the rest of his life attempting to sell this technology to the highest bidder (or any bidder at times). He was a showman, promoter, BS artist, and dreamer. He was not above fudging his figures or his demonstrations.

However, according to Joe Gordon, Mr Gray was the person who made the initial contact with "Andre Poppoff" that started this whole adventre. He took this idea to his friend Marvin Cole who then worked on it for years while being a chef at the "Grotto" at Pier #52 in LA. Mr. Cole had a masters in Mechanical Engineering but wasn't using it in his day job. I suspect that Mr. Cole made some breakthroughs himself. But, Dr. Tesla was the original source of the inspiration for this technology.

I have no idea as to what Mr. Poppoff gave to Mr. Gray or why he himself didn't develop these ideas into something saleable. Or why he disclosed this advanced technical information to an auto-body man in the first place. But the idea of a new motor design was being drawn on napkins by Gray-Cole as early as 1957.

The technology that E.V.Gray had in his possession was truly age-changing. But, he was not the man who brought it into being or was able to advance it.
I doubt if he really understood it, (nor could his hired technicians) however he probably knew the general construction features of the circuits involved and could draw an 80% schematic of them.

I have no doubt that there is magic somewhere in the "crumbs" of information that has survived. But there is not much point in ascribing research skills to Mr. Gray that he never had.

Mark McKay

[mlurye]

Spokane1 based on my limited understanding you can replace CSET with 2 spark gaps and system will work.
I don't know much about Gray’s history. But I can tell you one thing the person who wrote patent was trying to hide how it works or didn't know what it's actually doing.

[lamare]

No energy gain...

I just observed that when I connect the neon bulb to the HV rod, I get a much brighter flash.

So one thing's for sure: I ain't gaining anything...

I wonder wether or not the rod is radiating, or that I just see capacitive coupling. The neon bulb does also flash if I take a piece of PCB (about 4x7 cm) and use that as a "reciever", at a distance of approx. 5-8 cm of the rod.

[Spokane1]

Author of Patent 3-890-548 The Gray Pulse Motor

Spokane1 based on my limited understanding you can replace CSET with 2 spark gaps and system will work.
I don't know much about Gray’s history. But I can tell you one thing the person who wrote patent was trying to hide how it works or didn't know what it's actually doing.

Dear Mike,

I concure with you on both points.

I'm sure there are all kinds of topologies that invole single or multiple gaps of various configurations that will yeild interesting results. This kind of technology had many branchs during the early days of spark radio. But, for the tremendious energy gains approaching COP's of 275 at power levels of 75 KW it appears that one of the electrods needs to be moving - or so I propose.

I'm sure there are just as many excitation circuits and electrode materials that have an impact on this non-classical process. I would be happly to see a system that consistantly delivered an OU of 1.5

Concerning who wrote patent 3-890-548.

The Crosby Research company that tested the EMA2 motor (owned by Bing Crosby and ran by his brother Larry) did their work at Cal-Tech. Two staff members became very interested in this technology after the data was compiled. This was Dr. Norm Chalfin (K6PGX) and Dr. Gean Webster. Both of these gentlemen became members of the EVGRAY board from late 1973 to mid 1976. Both men had some association with the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL).

Dr. Chalfin was contracted to write up the patent documents for EMA4-E2. He certainly knew classical electronics and a great deal of general physics, but I'm sure he didn't know what was going on in this device. It appears that he never did. When you read the patent text it sounds (as is) coming from a man who is examining a pre-existing machine and attempting to describe how it functions from a one pass inspection. He did the best he could. There may have been some delibert attempts to cover up details that Gray might have thought vital, but neigher Gray or Hackenburger knew how it really worked.

If you study the patnet in detail you will quickly pick up on a lot of omissions, lack of detail, contradictions, errors, and all kinds of inconsistancies that the examiners didn't seem to bother with. Never the less this is what we have to work with.

I think Dr. Chalfin completly glossed over the front end power supplies and the details of their construction. He doesn't have a return path for currents introduced into the rotor and he completly overlooks (or mentions) the arcs between the stator and the rotor. I also think his proposed timing sequence and the idea of advancing and retarding the speed is a misplaced.

The drawings are another matter. I find them to be very consistent with each other. Marvin Cole did a lot of work on these and they probably existed before the patent application was started. It seems that these were not edited extensively (probably would cost to much to re-draft). Now the electrial schematics seem to have been additions to the mechanical drawings and are obvisouly much simplified conceptual drawings - since they only account for about a third of the components in use. This is where any major omissions would have taken place.

Now Mr. Grays other three patents appear to have been written by him thus they are short and vague. I still don't know where he came up with the reference patent numbers. There are two patents for the CSET and another patent that was placed in Great Britain that is inconhenserable.

Thanks for your observations I think many technical people have come to the same conslusions that we have.

It certainly is frustrating to attempt to reconstruct this marvolus technology with such flawed documentation.

Mark McKay

[Electrotek]

Patent GB2030801A

Now Mr. Grays other three patents appear to have been written by him thus they are short and vague. I still don't know where he came up with the reference patent numbers. There are two patents for the CSET and another patent that was placed in Great Britain that is inconhenserable.
Mark McKay

Gray's British Patent (Fig. 3) shows a variation of the classic Rail Gun circuit. A capacitor is charged up, the main switch (6) is closed, the cap dumps its energy into an inductor, a Crow Bar switch (4) takes the cap out of the circuit, and the inductor's field collapses, sending a pulse into the load. In Gray's case, the load is a battery, rather than the electromagnetic rails and their plasma armature. The shunt diode (4) prevents the cap's ring back activity from affecting the inductor.

PS: Thanks for the new CSET pictures. This looks like a pulse forming network, similar to the reference Pat. (#3798461), only using unipole capacitors. The highest voltage is on the grid with the smallest surface area, and the pulse focus time regulates the length of the spark it's sent into. (The size of the Zero Point.)

[Beshires1]

I personally don't care who wrote the patents, or where the concept came from. I am making progress. So I'm gonna keep on Keeping on. Maybe, Because I don't know it isn't suppose to work. Its the Motor I'm interested in and I can build it. Think I can work the tube in.

[Spokane1]

Interesting Gray Photos

Dear Electrotek,

If those photos of the CSET's are new to you then you probably haven't seen some other recent photos that I think are technically significant.

The first one is the rear end of the EMA6 showing the commentator and the three large inverter power supplies.

The next one is close up of the commentator showing 9 sets of contacts with three positions each. It appears the center one is common to the support rails.

The thrid photo is the modified EMA6 motor after the Media Event in Jan, 1976. Funding has been pulled by the Denver group and no one was interested in stepping with $$ in after the output of the EMA6 was reported to be 2HP. Here Mr. Hackenburger has added three more "donuts". It appears that each power supply has its own set of contacts to drive rather than a common switching approach. There is no evidence that this modified machine ever improved on the 2 HP output. It was Mr. Hackenburger's belief that the "magic" was taking place in the rotating arcs. I'm sure it was in the EMA4-E2 but not the way he set it up here. There is no axial focus field. Other features may have been missing as well.

The fourth photo shows a little bit of what was under the hood of the EMA4-E2. I've spent some time examining this photo and I come up with 12 yellow 7mm spark plug wires dangling here. There may be another 12 on the other end - I don't know. This implies that there were at least 12 unit power supplies and maybe as many as 24.

The fifth photo is a front end shot of the EMA4-E2 showing the view port that was machined intho the front of the motor by Mr. Hackenburger. This was done some time in early 1973. There are other photos that show the same motor with out the view port. It si my thought that Richard needed to see what was going on in there, while Marvin Cole didn't need to take a peek because he was very famaliure with the operation already and could probably know how it was running just by the sounds (which are reported to be quite loud by one observer). I'm sure Mr. Cole didn't want to tip his hand to potential investors as to what was taking place in the motor.

The last photo is another view of the stator. It shows the Delin blocks between the stator electromagnets. It is my contention that the arcs were drug across these blocks. As you may well know an arc traveling along a dielectric can travel about 3 times the distance as an open air arc. You can't see it in this photo but I see what I think are a multitude of faint black streks protruding from the "Minor" electro magnetic and pointing in the direction of rotation. They are about half the width of the White dielectric block - with some of them being a little longer. If there were some high energy arcs taking place at this point this is what you would expect to see.

I hope these are new to you and add aditional prespective to this technology.

Mark McKay

[Electrotek]

Thanks, Mark. You're right, I haven't seen some of these. They're probably on the photo disc you sent me (1-8-09) but I haven't found the right codec to open that disc yet. Computers are a real pain.

[Beshires1]

Look wrapped around the housing in photo 4. Recon that coil of wire is the Floating Static Flux Field?

[lamare]

Computers are a real pain.

But a lot easier to get working than a Gay tube

[Beshires1]

I ain't doing No Gay tube.

[boguslaw]

Dear Mark (spokane1)

Thank you for removing 'noise' out of my eyes.Now I believe there was no capacitor 38 in original Cole circuit.
I must tell you something : I'm sure we are approaching final conclusion and will understand Gray/Cole this year. I will explain why I have such conviction.That may take a little...

First we should remember one simple experiment : those with incandescent bulb put into water . It indicates very clearly that we are touching high frequency phenomena (or that experiment was a hoax if Cole was dead in that time and his device was not used. Please Mark provide us an information regarding that fact)

After looking a EMA4 something struck at me.It is a copy of Mr Tesla high frequency motor prototype !


Look at picture no 1 I attached and read description by Tesla:

In Fig. 16 I., a motor M1 having two energizing circuits, A and B, is
diagrammatically indicated. The circuit A is connected to the line L and
in series with it is a primary P, which may have its free end connected to
an insulated plate P1, such connection being indicated by the dotted
lines. The other motor circuit B is connected to the secondary s which is
in inductive relation to the primary P. When the transformer terminal T1
is alternately electrified, currents traverse the open line L and also
circuit A and primary P. The currents through the latter induce
secondary currents in the circuit S, which pass through the energizing
coil B of the motor. The currents through the secondary S and those
through the primary P differ in phase 90 degrees, or nearly so, and are
capable of rotating an armature placed in inductive relation to the
circuits A and B.

In Fig. 16 III., a similar motor M 3 with two energizing circuits A1 and
B1 is illustrated. A primary P, connected with one of its ends to the line
L has a secondary S, which is preferably wound for a tolerably high E.
M. F., and to which the two energizing circuits of the motor are
connected, one directly to the ends of the secondary and the other
through a condenser C, by the action of which the currents traversing
the circuit A1 and B1 are made to differ in phase.

In Fig. 16 IV., still another arrangement is shown. In this case two
primaries P1 and P2 are connected to the line L, one through a
condenser C of small capacity, and the other directly. The primaries are
provided with secondaries S1 and S2 which are in series with the
energizing circuits, A2 and B2 and a motor M3 the condenser C again
serving to produce the requisite difference in the phase of the currents
traversing the motor circuits. As such phase motors with two or more
circuits are now well known in the art, they have been here illustrated
diagrammatically. No difficulty whatever is found in operating a motor
in the manner indicated, or in similar ways; and although such
experiments up to this day present only scientific interest, they may at a
period not far distant, be carried out with practical objects in view.

I believe EMA4 stator is exactly one of these circuits powered by single wire transmission. I bet it's depicted in fig 16 I however I'm not an expert in motors, but the arrangement and type of coils prompt me to state that. It's a job of specialists for investigate that issue deeper.

After resolving (I think ) of motor issue it's obvious that CSET may be only one of two possible devices (from least probable to the almost certain)

1. One plate capacitor - Tesla frequently ended HF conductors (single wire transmission) by a insulated plate capacitor. If this is it , then CSET is a way to somehow additionally add charge that capacitor thus adding energy to already maintained longitudinal oscillations. That would mean those copper tubes are the end of the circuit and the connection after CSET is completely broken or faked. Anyway it's tricky idea because such additional pulse of energy must be synchronized with oscillations already in place. In that point circuit would work like this :


By discharging large capacitor across spark gap in CSET against resistance of carbon rod oscillating current is established in later part by the process of disruptive discharge described by Tesla.This HF current is flowing further to the load (no capacitor 38) and back to the grids which acted as a capacitor.The oscillations accumulate partly in grids and flow back through the load.Such oscillations may be maintained for a long time if circuit AND the load are of proper relation of inductance and resistance to formally support exact or odd numbers of waves (stationary electrical waves of high frequency). Gray mistake in this case would be first to close circuit (it is open single transmission line) and completely misunderstood of EMA motor operation. I think he was unable to recreate EMA but may still have original CSET , that's why batteries exploded (they were acting as single plate insulated capacitors). Btw protection devices may be added later or being original but support that idea because acting as a lightning arrestors, draining too much power from grid capacitor.


OK. If you read so far that scratch idea no 1 and be ready for even more convincing idea no 2.

2. CSET is exactly Tesla transformer. Look at picture no 2. Do you see similarities ? Yes, there are many but remember that this CSET is probably and artefact from a lost original working device. However that's a good for us, because Gray show the internal diameter and shape of coils (yes!), probably he thought it's not important device after a years of struggling with it... Something like : Oh, it's not working but looking great,ideal for show!

The most important fact is that grids are much narrow then described in patent. I strongly feel it was not a copper grids - it was a nice Tesla coil, with a single not closed copper tube around it (one or rather two turns) - acting as primary!
Then immediately we know that primary must be connected to disruptive discharge path with spark gap ! So outer copper tube was connected somehow to HV anode and LV carbon resistor (or rather above carbon resistor). The coil inside had probably one terminal grounded with LV anode and output was as shown in patent circuit, driving the load.
Much clearer now, commutator was used to shut off path to battery because only a large current spike was required for spark gap to let HV discharge put into oscillations. Diode was really to prevent oscillations escape back from spark gap and to protect commutator.

Circuit is now clear and easy. Of course Gray mistake of shorting return path to the ground (battery via capacitor 38) still remains a flaw. We should rather have an insulated plate in EMA as then end or let the end freely oscillate.

Is there someone willing to draw correct Gray patent circuit according to my ideas ?



P.S. If Mr. Hackenburger had read Nikola Tesla lectures I'm sure he would very fast replicate EMA4 and later circuit.He was however good but trained electrician to close every possible connections.
In memory of his I believe truly attempts to recreate this technology I post also this Tesla explanations:

It is thought useful to devote here a few remarks to the subject of
operating devices of all kinds by means of only one leading wire. It is
quite obvious, that when high-frequency currents are made use of,
ground connections are—at least when the E. M. F. of the currents is
great—better than a return wire. Such ground connections are
objectionable with steady or low frequency currents on account of
destructive chemical actions of the former and disturbing influences
exerted by both on the neighboring circuits; but with high frequencies
these actions practically do not exist. Still, even ground connections
become, superfluous when the E. M. F. is very high, for soon a condition
is reached, when the current may be passed more economically through
open, than through closed, conductors. Remote as might seem an
industrial application of such single wire transmission of energy to one
not experienced in such lines of experiment, it will not seem so to
anyone who for some time has carried on investigations of such nature.
(...)
It has been a long time customary, owing to .the limited experience with
vibratory currents, to consider an electric current as something
circulating in a closed conducting path. It was astonishing at first to
realize that a current may flow through tile conducting path even if the
latter be interrupted; and it was still more surprising to learn, that
sometimes it may be even easier to make a current flow under such
conditions than through a closed path. But that old idea is gradually
disappearing, even among practical men, and will soon be entirely
forgotten.

I hope I didn't bored you too much...

Boguslaw

[lamare]

tesla one wire transmission new video

Received this on radiant energy mailing list:

--::--

new tesla one wire video up for anyone who is interested in these
amazing effects tesla made 100 yrs ago sending energy down one wire,
you should check this out because this same principle leads to a world
industrial energy transfer using the earth as the one wire model!

YouTube - Wireless Transmission of Electrical Energy, Tesla 1900 part9

--::--

Looks interesting.

[Spokane1]

Look wrapped around the housing in photo 4. Recon that coil of wire is the Floating Static Flux Field?

Dear Mr. Beshives1,

What you see is the FFF. It appears to be in disarray for some reason. Probably due to the disassembly in progress at the time.

Speaking of the "Floating Flux Fied" (FFF). Here is about the best photo I have of this exotic component. It appears that there are two (2) distinct layers seperated with some additional white insulation between them. I count 10-11 turns of a cable that is about 5/8" in diameter.

IF each unit power supply had is own output series inductor associated with it then I suspect that this large cable is actually a multiconductor cable.

The location of this coupled inductor is interesting, so is its length and construction. Had the circuit just needed series inductance then much smaller (and cheaper) components could have been used.

My WAG is that the FFF is acting as an "antenna" of sorts. It is located where any radiation from the internal pulse arcs could be collected and returned to the power supply circuit. Now what is being collected is anybodies guess, much less how that something is being utilized by the power supply. But, I'm pretty sure it is a feedback process of some sort.

Mark McKay