Gray Tube Replication

[What The Flux]

Cap 38 charging

Electrotek,

Also, when the lv rod is disconnected, with the power supply running at 6khz, the hv from that can directly jump to the grid and charge the cap 38 in between commutator switching so the cap 38 can charge just fine without the lv rod even being a part of the equation...charged up with just the front end power supply.

The power supply jumping directly to grids will charge cap 38 directly through the coil without giving the coil any kind of magnetic charge...it just passes the potential. But of course the coil will charge when that cap discharges to rod.

This is the only part of your explanation that bothers me.

From what I can recall of the CSET setup (correct me if I'm having a senior moment), there was approx. 1/4 inch spacing between anode and grids. The dielectric constant of air is about 30 which means you would need 7500V to jump that gap, even more to jump it reliably on every fire. We know he didn't use voltages that high (don't we?).

It seems more likely that the CSET was the capacitive part of a tuned resonance circuit which charged up 38 and/or drove the load coil.

Respectfully, WTF

[Aaron]

cap 38 powering load

Electrotek,
Even with my flimsy setup, my charging cap was keeping up with driving one. To begin with I was using 0.8 uF microwave cap (it has discharging resistor built in).
And now I’m completely confused, how cap 38 will drive the motor. I don’t see discharge path
And you had good idea about collecting radiant energy around the gap, may be that is why early CSETs had so many layers.

One of my videos showed my cap 38 charging the coil when the lv rod was connected as is used the HV from power source for the collision and path to the rod since at 1000V it wouldn't jump by itself.

[Aaron]

cap 38 discharging

Hi WTF,

The power supply is higher than the cap most likely since it was an ignition coil.

Lets say even at a low voltage ignition coil it is 15-20kv...that could charge a 5000 volt cap quite nicely.

The positive of the power supply (15-20kv for example) is connected to the + of the front side cap and to the HV rod at the same time. The cap isn't the only thing at the rod...the power supply is directly connected to that rod and the power supply higher voltage can jump to the grids with a simple HV blue spark. This is what I found and this is what charged my cap 38.

The HV supply will simply jump to the grids...at a high frequency, you can see how easy it is for cap 38 to get charged...when LV is connected, then cap 38 can discharge powering the load.

Cap 38 can jump the gap because of one of two things most likely and I already posted a video of proof of the first one.

It will use a spark form the HV power supply as a conductive pathway to jump across and collide then move to ground and this powers the load and the blue spark happens first then the discharge causes the green burst probably too fast to see both events but the green one in this case is what I filmed.

Or, if when the LV rod is connected, if the battery actually causes a plasma burst at the rod gap by collision with the HV rod cap discharge, that plasma burst, which would be a white one...could possible expand enough to be the conductive pathway for the cap 38 to discharge over to the rods powering the load causing a green burst.

The cap 38 isn't jumping the gap all by itself. It will use the HV spark from the power supply to collide with and jump over...or it will use a burst at the gap that could possibly move outwards enough to give a conductive paths for cap 38 to discharge over from the grids.

[Aaron]

how 1000v can jump 1/4"

WTF,

Check out this vid:
YouTube - Here's how the Gray Tube works

From 4:02 to 7:05

The "stuff coming out of the grid" that I'm referring to is the regular HV spark from the power supply jumping to the grids...moving through coil and to the cap 38..if doesn't charge the coil of course since it is a regular spark but the coil passes the potential.

You can see the cap get charged to about 1000volts and jumps a 1/4" gap for reasons that I explained.

[Electrotek]

Load Powering With Cap 38

Boguslaw: The original motors used a large number of capacitors, each charged with its own coil. The CSET patent doesn't show these caps, only 38 and 16. 16 has an arc across it, so that only leaves 38 to power the load.

mlurye: Due to my magnetic quenching experiments with a setup similar to the Overshoot Switch, I'm looking at this component as a possible discharge path for 38. If this is actually for overvoltage protection, it's not needed due to the Transient Voltage diodes 44 and 46.

I've come up with two small MOT's which are both the same. I've been able to cut the welds along the bottom, leaving me with a couple of coil sets to experiment with. And you're right, it might involve both caps. I can bounce the charge back and forth between the two caps, by moving the jumper from one end of the diode to the other three or four times, with the transformer turned off.

Here is a picture of the Overshoot Switch, to the right of the CSET. The white motor wire going to this Switch is heavier than the CSET wires.

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: 31kn7.jpg

Here's the side view of the Switch, showing a green electromagnet:

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: 43328843nh9.jpg

Here's my updated, but incomplete version of the schematic:

[img=http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6522/evgraycircuiths4.th.jpg]

[mlurye]

Electrotek,
With your schema you are dirrecting HV impulse through batteries. Is it going to kill them?

[mlurye]

Guys,
I was reading latest Gray's patent. Description of what is he doing there is completely different from what we are doing here.
But why am I talking about it. I want you to read this patent: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post44801
Read it very carefully, I feel like these 2 patents are connected.

[Electrotek]

Electrotek,
With your schema you are dirrecting HV impulse through batteries. Is it going to kill them?

The batteries have a large cross section, so the HV is spread out. It'll actually desulfate the batteries, to some extent.

I'm glad you read Gray's last patent. Now read it again and see if it says what you think it did. There's a lot of contradictory stuff in there, so you can pretty much pick and chose what you want to debate.

I'll check the patent in your link. Thanks.

[Inquorate]

Fresh thoughts

I've been thinking how to design a circuit / produce an event based on my current understanding of the aether.

One pivotal observation I have made is the spark itself. I asked myself, ''how does a spark know where to go?''

Electrons jump from a low potential (high pressure) to a high potential (low pressure) in a spark, but unless their path was predetermined in some way (and it is) then the electrons would uniformly spread out from one point (the negative electrode) in a sphere, until encountering the positive electrode.

But this doesn't happen. So why?

Also, there is a mechanism that determines the break - down voltage level of all matter; the point at which the electrons orbiting the atoms are ripped free of the nuclear bonds, and propelled towards the higher potential. Conductors do this easily, but at high enough voltage, all dielectrics become conductors - often with extra explosive results.

My assumption is thus; voltage potential creates (or is) a polarization of the axis of aether spin. Electrons spin one way, and will find the path to positive polarity easier. When the voltage potential is high enough, the electrons will even break free of atomic bonds (or tip over the edge of the atomic hill). This is why lightning is free electrons from the ground going up into the sky.

Protons spin the other way (have opposite charge) so want to travel the opposite direction to negative potential, but occupy more space and therefore have higher inertia. This is observed as gravity.

SO, the space between a voltage dipole is polarized.

What would happen if we suddenly created an area of extreme low pressure (pos) in an electrode, then reset to zero, but before the space became 'un'polarized we did it again and again, with successive unidirectional dc square wave pulses of extremely high frequency? What would happen in the sea of virtual particles?

What would happen then, if just beyond the dielectric breakdown distance, we placed a grid containing free electrons, considering that the space it occupies still has a high polarity of axis of spin?

Maybe the distance of the grid is the most important detail, and maybe gray's tube was sealed so that the same atmospheric conditions always applied, so that dielectric breakdown voltage was always the same...

Anyway, just thinking.

[mlurye]

Electrotek,
There is no point in reading it again. If what I'm thinking is correct, Gray had no idea what he created and how does it work.
I need to think some more about my idea and try to build it.

[Chip Shorter]

The impulse creates an Anti-node. Depending on the freq of the impulse the magnitudes of each anti-node can be controlled depending on the surface area of the induced charge carrier. Pure Tesla.

[Electrotek]

The impulse creates an Anti-node. Depending on the freq of the impulse the magnitudes of each anti-node can be controlled depending on the surface area of the induced charge carrier. Pure Tesla.

I think it's more than just the surface area. I think it's more like a gong or bell, in which there's an audible resonance involving the mass of each grid. So the thickness is also a factor.

I can hear two different sounds coming from the inductor in my EMP circuit, in sequence. The second sound has a lower frequency.

IMO, the total mass of the grids should match the mass of copper in the motor coils. (Tesla) I'm trying to figure out if the grids can be a spiral coil, made from heavy gauge solid copper wire. If so, would the connections be in the middle or at the end?

[mlurye]

Just as information,
Gray's Tube ~ Morays Lead and Silver bars ~ Testatica disks. They do play same role.
And by the way Spark in Gray's tube should NEVER jump from anodes to the grid.

[Electrotek]

Just as information,
Gray's Tube ~ Morays Lead and Silver bars ~ Testatica disks. They do play same role.
And by the way Spark in Gray's tube should NEVER jump from anodes to the grid.

The last time I read the patent, it said that the intense discharge between the anodes transfers to the grids and is conducted through the motor. (4661747, column 1, lines 46-48)

The only way this issue might be resolved is if someone builds a CSET circuit which pops a coil without the grid-to-rod arcing. Or maybe the HERF device in the reference patent (3798461), also without any arcing.

The only CSET test I've done produced a 1/2" arc between two grids at 7.5 kV, using my voltage doubling diode T-tap.

[boguslaw]

This I posted on alfenergy group

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...5_modified.jpg

"The CSET IMO is Tesla magnifying transformer
with pancake coil(s) inside copper tube. Working in step down mode."

"To be precise primary of CSET is rather a spiral made of copper sheet,
just 2 or 3 turns. There are probably few pancake coils inside copper
spiral connected to it from outside, inner connection done to HV rod.
Just after pancake coils there is a spark gap with carbon resistor rod
facing HV rod which does not extend much from coils.It's recreating
lightning process. Carbon rod is ground, HV rod is cloud, pancake coils
are like Tesla magnetometer or magnifying transformer. But in this case
voltage is probably stepped down to thick copper spiral.
Element 38 is a insulated plate inside motor acting as final one
terminal capacitor. Element 36 is HF coil with additional transformer.
Arrows have two meanings: they show current flow and rotary reaction
inside motor, they also could indicate two currents facing each other at
90 degrees, and that is what really happens inside this complex element.

You should have no single problem finding that element in Tesla lecture
from 1892.It's a complex coil with shifting phase transformer. Two HF
currents with phase shifted 90 degrees generate magnetic pulse.

Element 42 is used to discharge cap 16 and to recharge it AT the SAME
moment, discharging current i normal one, while charging is HF. Charging
is allowed by diode 44 action. You can easily check that's true with any
HF current , diode across cap is acting like a gate so difference of
potential is made."