Gray Tube Replication

[Aaron]

@beshires

Beshires,

Your demo was simply a conventional spark by a conventional cap discharge into some coil and they repelled as they should. It was in no way any sort of disruptive plasma discharge at all and has nothing to do with the Gray circuit. Anyone can use the tube as a switch for conventional switching and you did just that.

I can do everything with the plasma ignition in the tube using the tube as a switch to get the collision process and charge a coil. I could encase all the ignition circuit points inside of a tube so that it looks pretty but it doesn't change what it is doing. I've already done it and it works..with or without the tube. Taking the tube concept outside of the tube doesn't prevent it from working either - you just hear the plasma discharge better and the plastic won't hold in the pressure as much to get more out of the grid exit. And if you haven't realized that with the real Gray effect that the plasma shouldn't make as much noise as normal because of what I already showed with the ignition system...it is muffled by the inductor acting as a choke.

With a modification of the Gray circuit...go post your diagram of your demo, if you want to talk about modifying a circuit. lol It is so far removed from what Gray was doing it it is ludicrous for you to claim even a remote replication.

Don't sit there playing the "poor me", you started disrespecting everyone around you starting off with disrespecting Peter Lindemann because you disagree with his info and your sarcastic use of calling yourself doctor because you see no value in Peter's credentials...then with your snide remarks about my work in between every other post you made here.

Still, things you claim are impossible, etc... but these are all common sense things when using HV and if you spend a few hundred hours studying all the old plasma ignition patents, you'll see they are simply the Gray tube effect outside of a tube and ALSO, they have no idea how the diode on the LV side of their circuits work!

When doing the experiments with both the ignition systems and the Gray tube, it becomes common sense what is happening and you havn't taken the time to do that, nor have you shown anything but a conventional cap discharge into some coils over a spark gap and you want to convince everyone you had some magic.

[Aaron]

plasma discharge

In this picture, it looks like Field Energy is coming off the side of the wire, with no spark gap. Can you replicate this effect? Is it just trying to jump to the coil?

That is the exact plasma discharge that would happen between the gap of the rods in the tube. But, the compression of the potential found a weak link in the wire...a non-hv wire and busted out the side of the insulation. The red drawing is what it looks like...a gas jet coming out a pinhole and expanding out as it hit the air. At first there was some continuity in the wire...then after about a minute, no more continuity...just a busted wire. So the weakness in the wire there was simply acting as the spark gap...so there were 2 spark gaps...the one in the wire and one inside the tube.

On my diagram showing the concept is identical to the Gray circuit (which some people are intentionally ignoring that I've done these tests in the tube so I know there is no diffrenence...the wire here that exploded is where the HV comes out, moves into the diode of the LV source, diode shuts off and further compresses the potential and the wire couldn't take it.

So this is why I'm saying that with or without a gap, and I have done both, that the plasma circuit using HV output straight into a diode without a gap is getting this very strong recompressed potential as evidenced by all hell breaking loose exploding a wire...that which you see in the picture is what is moving to the "ground" or the grids is identical to the discharge moving to the ground strap on the plug.

[boguslaw]

Ok Aaron

So you want me to logoff, yeah ? Sure, no problem, just say...

I would love to show you a working Gray CSET but I have no one really. Also I would deeply re-think such decision. For example , why Bedini won't show us a working OU motor with COP of 10 or better. I bet he can do it.

We are learning, that's good thing. Unfortunately once we will know the truth it may be hazardous for us I think. Think how all big countries are now starting to explore Arctic Zone. That is madness.

Besides I'm stuck with oscillator circuit with two capacitors, coil and commutator which Tesla used. I have to find the equation to compute resonant frequency of such circuit. Could anybody help ?

My plan is to see by my own eyes radiant energy. I think that radiant energy is the same as cold electricity produced by original Marvin Cole CSET.

[Electrotek]

Builders Only?

Out of all this time Bogus on all the groups, you have a lot to say but I have never seen a photo or video of anything you have ever done. Why don't you post something so we know you're actually building something.

Since when is "actually building something" a prerequisite for posting to an alt-science forum, or discussing personal ideas? What is this, a Builders' Club?

[Electrotek]

Doc's EV Gray Demo

Beshires,

Your demo was simply a conventional spark by a conventional cap discharge into some coil and they repelled as they should. It was in no way any sort of disruptive plasma discharge at all and has nothing to do with the Gray circuit. Anyone can use the tube as a switch for conventional switching and you did just that.

<snip>

When doing the experiments with both the ignition systems and the Gray tube, it becomes common sense what is happening and you havn't taken the time to do that, nor have you shown anything but a conventional cap discharge into some coils over a spark gap and you want to convince everyone you had some magic.

@Beshires1: When I looked at your picture of your First Radiant Event I did see a plasma ball between the rod and the grid. It was small, but it was in fact the same effect.

[mlurye]

Guys,
Are you done with fighting? Anyway no one is right until it's proven.
For now I need some ideas or maybe even some real schema on how to build 2 point spark gap and generate unidirectional short discharge.
@Electrotek, I’m not sure on how to build your spark gap. Could you please simplify it so it would be clear on how to build it?

[Guest]

@all: I am not trying to make a guess who is right or not and I don´t care until I see a working motor with right timing and pulse discharge recharging battery capacity and OU of at least 10. If it is an exact Gray copy or not is not interesting to me, we are at 2009, time to do something..

[Electrotek]

Guys,
Are you done with fighting? Anyway no one is right until it's proven.
For now I need some ideas or maybe even some real schema on how to build 2 point spark gap and generate unidirectional short discharge.
@Electrotek, I’m not sure on how to build your spark gap. Could you please simplify it so it would be clear on how to build it?

Perhaps it would be a little clearer if I point out that the two widely spaced electrodes are the spark gap. The closer electrode is a wire fastened to a dowel rod handle. This wire is moved in close to the diode end of the transformer's arc. When the wire is pulled back, then moved back in, whatever charge is on the cap will discharge. The arc will puff with a lot of charge on the cap. Otherwise, with momentary charging, the dowel rod's wire will make a dark blue spot where it touches the arc. This blue spot is still Field Energy since it is completely opaque and blocks the transmission of incident light.

If three wires are fixed so as to be aimed at each other as shown in my circuit, the top cap will charge for a few seconds, then discharge backwards into the arc, puffing it and repeating every few seconds. So you can see why it's important to charge the top cap in a fraction of a second, using your extra diode. Then, the effect will occur whenever the dowel rod's wire is switched. Otherwise, the capacitor in series with the diode isn't needed for this part of the circuit.

PS: I'm testing a MOT circuit right now with a two point spark gap and a unidirectional discharge. I'll post that sometime soon, after I check one more idea for making it replicable for everyone.

[Beshires1]

Your demo was simply a conventional spark by a conventional cap discharge into some coil and they repelled as they should. It was in no way any sort of disruptive plasma discharge at all and has nothing to do with the Gray circuit. Anyone can use the tube as a switch for conventional switching and you did just that.

Excuse me if I'm wrong but At least my picture shows the discharge that is making the coil jump and the tube working together I didn't pop a coil from a circuit (with no tube) and then show a Green flash in a tube, and cry but my coil not working. Anyone would have turned the coil over if your lame excuse why it didn't work was correct.

I didn't start this with you. I only gave correct answers to others questions. I didn't mention the Aaron replication method because. The tube is supposed to work as described by the inventor. Which is NOT you. I still don't see how all that energy sneaks thru the coil and charges a capacitor then discharges back thru the coil to make it Jump. Does it slip thru there slowly so the coil doesn't realize that there is power there the first time? Greys description sounds better. He Built several of them he should Know. But hey what ever floats your boat. But after reading back in the plasma spark cell thing I realize that. If there is something you don't understand you will always fall back and say that the inventor didn't know what he was doing. Ed Grey being the second dead inventor you claim is stupid. Isn't ironic that the video pruff to prove you are right is of someone replicating Stan's work? What a crop!
I can say without a doubt that you are on to something with this spark Plasma circuit thing. But trying to force it upon people as THE WAY and only way it can be done just doesn't cut it. Sure it works like you say using your circuit doing it your way. But that is not the way stated in the patent.END OF STORY.

[mlurye]

Thank you Electrotek,
Looking forward for your schema.

[Aaron]

replication thread

Since when is "actually building something" a prerequisite for posting to an alt-science forum, or discussing personal ideas? What is this, a Builders' Club?

The point of the forum is to have multiple threads where the topics focus on different things.

I started this thread as a Gray Tube Replication Thread.

There has been some blatantly wrong information posted in this thread and I haven't said anything and most is by people that haven't shown evidence of any experimentation. I'm sure most of it is not intentional but some is HIGHLY suspect.

Much of what is posted here is suitable for a Gray Tube Discussion Thread. Because it is discussing ideas about things that the patents don't reference, there is no visual witness to such ideas ever being implemented, and so on.

I'm not speaking as a moderator here. I'm just talking as someone that started a thread. I don't care if they're discussed, I've seen and enjoyed Boguslaw's posts for a long time but they are appropriate in a "discussion" thread.

[mlurye]

I do like balloon theory, but unfortunately I noticed something that doesn't link with Gray's tube construction.
As I noticed grid logically should be above spark area, where the most of energy is emitted by spark. But it is not.
If you look at tube design, grid is covering HV anode and moved away from the gap. It looks like some kind of HV capacitor that is getting discharged when shock wave going through HV anode.
I don't know how to explain it yet, but it is something to think about.

[Aaron]

@ beshires

I still don't see how all that energy sneaks thru the coil and charges a capacitor then discharges back thru the coil to make it Jump. Does it slip thru there slowly so the coil doesn't realize that there is power there the first time? Greys description sounds better.

I can say without a doubt that you are on to something with this spark Plasma circuit thing. But trying to force it upon people as THE WAY and only way it can be done just doesn't cut it. Sure it works like you say using your circuit doing it your way. But that is not the way stated in the patent.END OF STORY.

You are SERIOUSLY misdirecting people's focus away from what I said and I believe you are very aware you are doing this. Being so detail oriented, you can't possibly expect me or anyone to believe you actually thought I said that.

You said: "I still don't see how all that energy sneaks thru the coil and charges a capacitor then discharges back thru the coil to make it Jump."

I never said that and you probably realized that what I was telling you (what I actually told you and is posted in this thread) was true but you didn't want to let anyone know that you really don't know how any of this works. Now your acting like you disagreed with me based on something that I never said so it doesn't look like you didn't realize common sense stuff about the circuit to begin with.

I was VERY CLEAR in saying that when the grid receives the discharge event and powers the coil, the power doesn't stop at the coil, it goes thru and also charges the cap. AND, after the coil discharges, the inductive spike will send a second pulse to the cap. YOU WERE CLAIMING THAT THE CAP WILL ONLY GET A CHARGE FROM THE COLLAPSE JUST BECAUSE THE PATENTS SAYS THAT. YOU KNOW YOU SAID THIS AND IT IS IN THE POSTS YOU MADE.

I have never forced the sparkplug circuit on anyone. I am saying it is the effect and it is. I said it demonstrated the effect and what I am extremely adamant about is that all of your descriptions of why the sparkplug circuit isn't doing the same are incorrect. I have discharged power from the HV rod into a LV battery on the LV side as a switch and powered a coil from the grids with a cap in parallel.

You have made claims it is IMPOSSIBLE, a very strong and passionate word expressing serious belief in it...for a spark to either jump to the grid or rod if they are disconnected. You therefore dismiss the fact that a longitudinal impulse can charge a cap on the line with one wire and longitudinal impulses are what we are working with. You reaveal you have zero experience with one wire charging, but you won't want to admit that power transfer can happen when the commutator is disconnected. I have alread posted videos showing 1 wire charging with either 2 diodes or one single inline diode with longitudinal impulses.

There are many kind of plasma with different properties to them. Just because there is a blue spark, arc or ball doesn't mean there is a disruptive discharge. This is a fact and if it isn't truly disruptive, the coil will charge with lenz law and the cap will discharge against impedance.

Everyone knows what the scope shots look like with the collision circuits, the cap discharges instantaneously. That is how you know you have a disruptive discharge.

I asked you if you can show a scope shot of your cap discharging and you didn't say no, you just ignored it. When you scope your photo flash cap and show how it is discharging, THAT is your only evidence that you got the EVENT.

Not a pretty blue color, not any kind of plasma but the scope shot proving a disruptive discharge of the cap combined with the manifestation of a plasma impulse of the right color quality. This is not an opinion, this is what it takes to know what you have.

I've showed how to get this, Mlurye will see this if he scopes his cap. Many people already know for themselves how the cap discharges on a scope when it collides, creates a true vacuum that pulls the cap empty without impedance and they move to a common ground. This has all been posted for many months now.

A regular spark is technically a plasma but that doesn't mean anything to have "plasma" appear. It has been said that a wide gap is required for plasma but that isn't correct. With the right circuit, a true disruptive plasma can be created in the smallest of smallest gaps...and with that being the case, opening the gap will allow a bigger plasma effect. But that is a big difference from it being required to make the plasma.

There are many specific things shared here that potentially will set people on the wrong path and I will keep it on track.

Until I started this thread, there has never been any thing online showing the effect or any applications of it. I hear stories from people that never showed anything. This thread will simply manifest a running Gray Motor as this thread has been designed to do and I don't care who does it but if it doesn't meet the obvious parameters, it can't be considered to be using Grays "cold electricity".

I agree with Electrotek that any invention is still valuable even if it isn't the Gray circuit. Beshires, I think you will make a motor but if you replicate the patent, you are not replicating your original circuit that you made claims with. The patent you want to replicate has two HV collisions that will be foreced to common ground as I have said over and over. It shows EXACTLY what I said is needed for the real effect. I ALREADY made that circuit and it charges the coils... I know the effects. I made it with gaps and with diodes. And if you get it, you will realize that it is not the same as your coil popping demo.

They are totally different.

[Aaron]

grid placement

I do like balloon theory, but unfortunately I noticed something that doesn't link with Gray's tube construction.
As I noticed grid logically should be above spark area, where the most of energy is emitted by spark. But it is not.
If you look at tube design, grid is covering HV anode and moved away from the gap. It looks like some kind of HV capacitor that is getting discharged when shock wave going through HV anode.
I don't know how to explain it yet, but it is something to think about.

Grid away from LV rod and gap allows cap 38 to slam into the HV potential from front side without it discharging directly to LV rod when LV rod is connected.

If over gap, it is possible for cap 38 to discharge direct to LV rod using plasma burst as pathway.

[Beshires1]

Look Your dreaming. I haven't made any claims about my circuit having any hoodoo magic . I posted a video and a picture showing that I had had the Grey tube to produce a event. That was the first event posted plainly showing the tube discharging and the coil jumping from the same discharge from the tube. My only claim made was that I stated that it was the first event of the Grey tube producing useable work. You must be having a brain Hemmorage.
You obviously thought that your Worlds First Video proved your point . But You only proved what I said backing up the patent. So your discharging a charge into a coil yes it will also charge the cap because you have it wired in circuit with the coil. The Friggin coil is not disconnecting and moving away as it would when it is on a rotor shaft."

I still don't see how all that energy sneaks thru the coil and charges a capacitor then discharges back thru the coil to make it Jump."

This is obviously another hallucination of yours. In case your still confused let ME spell it out to YOU. Thats my quote: I'm tellin you that: "I still don't see how all that energy sneaks thru the coil and charges a capacitor then discharges back thru the coil to make it Jump." I never said you said this. Thats a hallucination Your havin there son. Again Tell me how all that wire exploding power goes thru the coil without so much as a wiggle to charge a cap on the other side then discharge back thru the same coil. That Is What I want to Know. I plainly stated as does the patent that there might be a little charge to the cap before it is disconnected. Why are you so difficult? Not use to people tellin ya that your wrong Huhh. If you want to keep up this argument then post some more of your hallucinations and I'll see If I can Help you find reality.