Gray Tube Replication

[nat1971a]

Thats very interesting about the insulation in the CSET...hmmm

[Aaron]

new project

Here's a picture of my new setup. The coil on the left weighs 4 pounds. The transformer and cap are 7.5 kV, with the cap at 16.5 uF.

Looking forward to what you're going to find!

[Guest]

I have a hard time seeing a perfect square wave coming out at 1 MHz, 50 kV DC.... Pls tell me how you can do that...

[freeukpower]

Just a quick reply to the questions before I post the next part of my history.

"Jetijs" posting 825 you are correct that the MOT would see a direct short, but if you look at some MOT's you will find 2 sections of steel laminations in the space between the mains windings and the HV windings. These function as short circuit protection and allow the output to go short circuit for a short time. As to the falling tube there was about 300 mm clear under the end to allow the ball bearing to exit. The design did create very short duration pulses.
For the grounding on this experiment I used a 1m long earth rod into a good watered earth ground but now I only work with floating / isolated earth as I do not like the idea of me becoming an earth route for HV discharges. !!!!!!!


"Electrotec" posting 828 I see you have had experience of moderators pulling a complete discussion group. Is it intentional to milk everyone for all the information and then cut and run when you have enough to make a patentable invention?

"Martin" posting 835 looks like you had a full CSET discharge of radient energy, they can be real scary when they happen. You can do the same set up many times with the same equipment and just once it happens, takes out all your equipment. I now use a proper HV isolating bench power supply protected by many spark over shoot devices. In preference I would like to perfect a battery powered DC system of charging the HV capacitor.

Post 839 Your idea will work to an extent my next posting will give more information of the twin switch system that I developed, the only problem was that the driving circuit of 555 times would fry every time I got a radient event.

[Electrotek]

On Off Pulse

i have looked quite closely at the SCR's and they dont switch off very quick. In fact I have already tried an SCR in the circuit a month or so back

This is also backed up by the following statement by peter lindemann



http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...nt-energy.html




Shad,

Dollard used large vacuum triodes for his Magnifying Transmitter, and glass enclosed hydrogen spark arresters for the other BSRF demonstrations.

But let's start at the beginning. What was Tesla trying to do? He was trying to produce a simple DC square-wave pulse train. But he didn't have ANY electronic control devices. No 555 timer chips. No transistors. No vacuum tubes. He only had coils, capacitors, mechanical contacters, and spark gaps.

So, what does Tesla's longitudinal electrostatic wave-front look like? It looks like a DC square-wave pulse train where the pulse repetition rate is one million impulses per second, the duty-cycle is 10% On and 90% OFF, and the voltage in each impulse is 50,000 volts DC or more. This is what Tesla wants the circuit to do. This is what he wants to create by the discharge of his capacitor stage in the circuit.

So, if the spark gap is his "circuit controller" then he only wants a "single crack" each time the capacitor discharges. Just a single, unidirectional impulse of electrostatic charge to proceed forward before the circuit shuts off again. Then, the capacitor can charge up again for the 900 nanoseconds the spark gap is quiet and then discharge all of the stored energy again in 100 nanoseconds. Then repeat indefinitely.

It creates a "staccato of electrostatic bursts." Don't make this mysterious, because it is not. It is no more difficult to understand than the output of a 555 timer chip. Its just that we are talking about very high voltage DC, and very high pulse repetition rates. What is difficult is finding the circuit components that allow you to create these conditions without self-destructing!

In my Tesla's Radiant Energy DVD I go through all of Tesla's patents and discuss the various methods he used. They included spark gaps quenched by magnets, spark gaps quenched by blasts of hot air, spark gaps in insulating oil, spark gaps across rotating contacters. All of these methods work to one degree or another.

In the 1920's, as vacuum tubes started becoming available, John Bedini and I are convinced that Tesla went to Lee DeForest and had him build the first experimental Thyratrons. This is a family of circuit controlling devices specifically designed to conduct a unidirectional impulse, only when triggered, and then automatically shut off when the voltage drops to ZERO. This is most easily seen today in the function of the Thyrister, the simplest of which is the SCR. The problem with SCRs today is that they are not designed to shut OFF fast enough for the purposes of these circuits.

I hope this helps.

Peter

If Tesla was behind the development of the Thyratron, it surely wasn't for his electrostatic impulse application. Turning a pulse on, then waiting for the zero crossing wasn't what he was doing. It isn't what we want either. Tesla used a DC dynamo which output a constant voltage - no zero crossing. When using a capacitor as the source, the discharge needs to be broken up into thousands of pulses. This isn't easy to do, using vacuum tubes.

However, Pat. #4596945 looks promising. This is a vacuum tube which looks similar to the CSET, with an outer cathode grid. Low Voltage circuits are connected to two other grids, to turn the pulse on and back off.

[Electrotek]

Milking Moderators

Just a quick reply to the questions before I post the next part of my history.

"Electrotec" posting 828 I see you have had experience of moderators pulling a complete discussion group. Is it intentional to milk everyone for all the information and then cut and run when you have enough to make a patentable invention?

This is the impression I get. At one point he basically said that WE provide the circuit and HE will make it available to humanity, by selling it. In return, we get first option to BUY a regional license - on technology WE discover.

[What The Flux]

@ What The Flux

Yea, RS is getting slim on parts around here also. The IRF510 seems to be good for higher frequencies, but they are delicate! If memory serves, IRF540 may be a better choice. Im going to pursue the shorter pulse as well, but Im going to start off with a custom rotary gap and series resistor to try breaking the arc in the cset.

Every time I think I'm taking a step forward I take two steps back.

Why are you/we concerned with higher frequencies? For the last several weeks I've been looking at the CSET and the load as a tuned resonant circuit. But how can this be?

When we talk about Gray's motor running at 6KHz, isn't that referring to the chopper circuit and the pulses charging up cap 16?

For some reason I got distracted into thinking that the CSET had to fire at high frequencies but that isn't true. Martin's HF sparking got me all excited.

If the motor is running at 2000 RPM, each of the three CSETs is only firing once per revolution, or about 33 Hz. Es verdad?

Furthermore, if this motor was to be of any use, it would have to run at different speeds, so trying to tune the CSET and the load at a certain resonance would be moot, as the CSET firing frequency is dependent on motor speed.

I think you are on the right track with rotary contacts. Any of the electronic parts within our budget will not cut the current off fast enough. I wish I had a machine shop. I will try nonetheless.

[martin]

Every time I think I'm taking a step forward I take two steps back.

Why are you/we concerned with higher frequencies? For the last several weeks I've been looking at the CSET and the load as a tuned resonant circuit. But how can this be?

When we talk about Gray's motor running at 6KHz, isn't that referring to the chopper circuit and the pulses charging up cap 16?

For some reason I got distracted into thinking that the CSET had to fire at high frequencies but that isn't true. Martin's HF sparking got me all excited.

If the motor is running at 2000 RPM, each of the three CSETs is only firing once per revolution, or about 33 Hz. Es verdad?

Furthermore, if this motor was to be of any use, it would have to run at different speeds, so trying to tune the CSET and the load at a certain resonance would be moot, as the CSET firing frequency is dependent on motor speed.

I think you are on the right track with rotary contacts. Any of the electronic parts within our budget will not cut the current off fast enough. I wish I had a machine shop. I will try nonetheless.

You are probably right about the resonant freq. I guess I concentrated on that because that is where the coil puts out the highest voltage/static field. Since I dont have a switch of some sort for activating the spark gap, Im kinda stuck. Without operating the coil in it's efficient range, I loose the static field. With a switch I can change the interruption rate of the gap without affecting the static field.

I have a lathe, if you have a spark gap/switch idea let me know and I'll see if I have the materials to make it and ship it to you. Here's a pic of the rotor Ive made for my spark gap. The copper is common to the outer contacts. Hopefully it will act more like a switch.

It's basically 3/8 plexiglass from Home Depot, 1/2" copper pipe counter-sunk and captured between a plexi end-cap and the plexi rotor. The contacts are solid copper from house wiring soldered to the copper pipe. I'll have a brush on the pipe and contacts on the perimeter of the plexi rotor.

[Aaron]

6khz power supply

The power supply was 6khz.

Here are two brochure/pages on it:
EMS Inverter
Static Generator Brochure

Both are on this page:
Free Energy | Edwin Gray

-------------------------------------------

6khz is obviously a harmonic of 60hz, the common
cycle for the US. Gray's inverter ran radios,
TV's, etc... does anyone know if 60 cycle devices
will work at 6khz?

If it was intentional to be in alignment with a harmonic
of 60hz, I don't know but it seems to be the simplest
explanation of why 6khz was used and for what the
EMS Inverter was supposed to power.

The first gain in the entire Gray system was in the
power supply output, before it got to the tube
and definitely before it got to the motor. If you want
to charge a cap, you charge it with radiant and the
properties are different than a hot current charged
cap. It can jump a wider gap for the same voltage
so all dielectric breakdown values are irrelevant and
obsolete with radiant charged caps. This has been
known since the Tesla days.

So I think Imhotep was onto something close with
his relay oscillator for the ignition coil. It absolutely
has radiant output I was able to single wire charge
caps off of it from almost 10 feet away.

The Aromaz two transistor oscillator circuit for an
ignition coil is also radiant and at a higher frequency
and with a secondary with less windings, no doubt
it could get even faster and sharper.

Gray's ignition coil(s) were modified Mallory Promaster
Coils to my understanding...and if the voltage output
was closer to the cap rating then the secondary
most likely just had few windings which would reduce
the voltage but would also allow for faster frequencies.

So if we're not using a radiant power supply, then
we're missing out on the first gain to be had.

[martin]

The power supply was 6khz.

Here are two brochure/pages on it:
EMS Inverter
Static Generator Brochure

Both are on this page:
Free Energy | Edwin Gray

-------------------------------------------

6khz is obviously a harmonic of 60hz, the common
cycle for the US. Gray's inverter ran radios,
TV's, etc... does anyone know if 60 cycle devices
will work at 6khz?

If it was intentional to be in alignment with a harmonic
of 60hz, I don't know but it seems to be the simplest
explanation of why 6khz was used and for what the
EMS Inverter was supposed to power.

The first gain in the entire Gray system was in the
power supply output, before it got to the tube
and definitely before it got to the motor. If you want
to charge a cap, you charge it with radiant and the
properties are different than a hot current charged
cap. It can jump a wider gap for the same voltage
so all dielectric breakdown values are irrelevant and
obsolete with radiant charged caps. This has been
known since the Tesla days.

So I think Imhotep was onto something close with
his relay oscillator for the ignition coil. It absolutely
has radiant output I was able to single wire charge
caps off of it from almost 10 feet away.

The Aromaz two transistor oscillator circuit for an
ignition coil is also radiant and at a higher frequency
and with a secondary with less windings, no doubt
it could get even faster and sharper.

Gray's ignition coil(s) were modified Mallory Promaster
Coils to my understanding...and if the voltage output
was closer to the cap rating then the secondary
most likely just had few windings which would reduce
the voltage but would also allow for faster frequencies.

So if we're not using a radiant power supply, then
we're missing out on the first gain to be had.

I 100% agree One thing I forgot to mention, is when my tube was running, I had spare copper pipes from my 1st tube experiments laying on my wood bench along with a spiral notebook. I could take one of my small lights an touch it to the copper pipes or notebook rings and it would light.

[martin]

Here's the major issue I have with the radiant outputs Ive seen so far:

1. It still shocks
2. Smell burning skin like high-freq rf.

What was Gray doing to get this non-shocking cool electric effect?? I think it involved a static field somehow. Either by combining static with conventional HV or getting it to actually flow someway.

[nat1971a]

@martin

is it lighting a cfl?

[martin]

yeah, a small florescent tube. Two different ones. One is U shaped and the other is like a cork screw.

[What The Flux]

Harmonics

The power supply was 6khz.

6khz is obviously a harmonic of 60hz, the common
cycle for the US. Gray's inverter ran radios,
TV's, etc... does anyone know if 60 cycle devices
will work at 6khz?

I've heard that mentioned in an earlier post also, and it's just not true.
6KHz is not a harmonic of 60Hz. The only relationship is the factor of 100 which is a decimal number. True harmonics would be 120, 240 480, etc. These are the harmonics that would be present in a 60Hz square wave, or anything other than a sine wave. There are other harmonics of minimal importance, but 100x is not one of them.

I doubt many 60Hz devices would work on 6Khz, since they mostly start off in a high inductance transformer which would not transfer enough energy at that frequency. If they don't have a transformer, I'll leave that up to you. I'd start with your toaster. That might actually work.

[nat1971a]

@martin,

would be great if you could post a photo or video of that

as that is pretty impressive

how bright would you say it is? and how far from the cset?