Gray Tube Replication

[What The Flux]

Still problems

If you take a multimeter and put negative on the battery negative and put the positive on the cathode...you will see the voltage of the battery minus the voltage drop through the diode if any. When you see this voltage, you know the diode is open. Nothing needs to be connected to the cathode. So the HV will see path to ground because if you can measure the battery voltage on the cathode...it is a straight shot to it's own ground. HV jumps and as soon as the cathode voltage is higher than the annode, it closes at whatever speed the diode is rated for.

I use these diodes: http://doc.chipfind.ru/pdf/surge/6a100.pdf (6A 1000v)

The exact setup you show in the schematic should work perfectly. The cap isn't isolated from the power supply when the relay makes contact the power supply could contribute to powering the primary.

Are you able to measure 24v on the cathode if you put the negative on the ground of the battery?

Sorry that it takes me so long to respond. It's vacation season in FL, and my house is full of in-laws.

@Aaron, you are right about the diode being forward biased. Depending on what diode I use I have 2-3V drop across it even when the cathode is open. I have tried two different MO diodes and a string of 1KV diodes. Neither is letting even a short spark through. All the diodes are still good... they still conduct forward but not backward.

WTH,
Are you planning to put 220V impulse on primary of ignition coil? Be very careful about that.
Also about diode you can do what Aaron sad, I was using 3 x 1N4007.

Not quite. My cap discharge is in the 100V range, and my coil works like a champ. I get nice white plasma discharges at about 20/sec (without the diodes on the LV).

What The Flux: If all else fails, try replacing the cap's diode with a small arc gap. That's how Beshires got the circuit to work, by including the commutator's arc gap.

I have done this without the batteries, and I get nice plasma balls at both gaps. But I'm reluctant to send full 10KV discharges (with a bunch of current) into my 12V batteries. The gaps may quench the spark a bit, but I'll still be sending a long large pulse into those batteries. A la Dana Carvey, "Not gonna do it".

If you use a DPDT relay, you can make sure the power supply is isolated from the ignition coil.

Put the cap on the common and in NC position, it charges from supply, when relay is triggered, common moves to NO, which dumps cap to ignition coil..that way, there is no chance for power supply to be dumped directly to primary.

I wonder if the power supply may have killed the coil or over powered the diode?

My previous setup did exactly that. That's when I got my first plasma spark. I also torched one relay, but replaced it and added some damping caps. But I'm getting such great sparks with the system the way it is, at least 1/4 inch. How can the power supply connection be a factor if my spark setup is so sound? How will it know that I inserted a diode?

But I'm desperate, so I'll try it anyway.

I have checked all caps and coil.. they're all fine.

[Electrotek]

Well, I found another angle on the power supply, looks like there's 2 transformers used. I wonder if those silver/black looking things are old relay switchers. It looks like there's two of them.

I think the relay is on a separate board, shown on the right in this picture. Also, what is the red thing at the back right corner in your picture? In the background view, it does look like rings stacked up.



WTF: My Puff Sparks works the same way you're describing. If there multiple arc gaps in the circuit, they all puff.

[martin]

I think the relay is on a separate board, shown on the right in this picture. Also, what is the red thing at the back right corner in your picture? In the background view, it does look like rings stacked up.



WTF: My Puff Sparks works the same way you're describing. If there multiple arc gaps in the circuit, they all puff.

The ring is a bundle of wires. Looks like to power the board. You can see this in this pic.

[Electrotek]

That's not it, that's the coil. What I'm wondering about isn't shown in this picture. In the non covered, background picture you first found, it's between the white cap and the Black Box. You can also see it just to the right of the red wires in your pictures in message #1065.

edit: It's in picture # Cropped Gray 009D. The one we've been trying to enhance.

[Ghst]

I've noticed that thing before. I don't know what it is there for, but It is some kind of Gyro. Kinda like a self aligning bearing with a pointed spinning top in the center. Maybe Fritz? wanted to showcase his machining ability? But I think that was put there to purposely distract.

[Electrotek]

024A and 024B show a gyro, but this red thing is different. Mark McKay says that gyro is 9 inches wide and that "GD", one of Gray's Investors, put it into those other pictures for a size reference.

[martin]

Is this what you're talking about? It does kind of look like the loop we've seen in the other circuit demo pics.

I think that big white square thing in the background is the motorcycle battery that he was using to demo the circuit when it had 100w light bulbs, razor,..etc. connected to the power supply. There's an interview paper I read that describes the dimensions of this white thing perfectly (I think he said it was something like 7" x 5" x 1") and he calls it a motorcycle battery. It was amazing what all he had running off of it.

[Electrotek]

Here it is, with a circle:

[martin]

Here it is, with a circle:

I see what youre talking about now. It's a little clearer in the other pic I posted and I still cant tell what it is. Are you thinking it's a small cylinder standing on it's end?

[martin]

Since Im thinking about this tube again, take a look at this pic. Ok, the orange arrows point to the copper tubing. The green arrows point at the spacers that are fitted against the tube. If there wasnt anything between the copper tubes there would only be 1 spacer to separate the 2 tubes. However, there's 3 spacers indicating there's 2 other rings of material between the copper tubes. The blue arrow separates the 2 rings of unknown material.

So what is between the copper???

[Electrotek]

Martin: The thing behind the coil of red wires looks like some kind of tube with heat fins. Or some other exotic device.

In your picture of the CSET, there are six or seven copper tubes. It's hard to see due to the lighting angle. Here's the other side:

[martin]

Martin: The thing behind the coil of red wires looks like some kind of tube with heat fins. Or some other exotic device.

In your picture of the CSET, there are six or seven copper tubes. It's hard to see due to the lighting angle. Here's the other side:

Ok, I see now. Im just paranoid that we're going to find some material or something that is virtually impossible to duplicate to get this to work. There is obviously something everyone is missing. Just charging and discharging coils and caps just isnt getting it.

Did you happen to notice the coil of wire in the power supply? Could be the FFF that was possibly moved from the motor to the power supply.

[Electrotek]

Wish I had X-ray vission. But we'll get it, if we keep working. Speaking of which, I tested my interrupter today. Lighty was right about the arc stretching. With just rectified HV, there's only a tiny bit of drift beyond the electrodes. But when I hook a cap up to it, the sparks swirl around it at least 60 degrees. I'll try putting a magnet on it later.

[Electrotek]

Kilovac Switches

Thinking about what Lighty said about using a vacuum interrupter reminded me that I do have a couple of Kilovac DPDT relays. Now that I've got my circuit switched around to match the patent, I can try using one of these on the LV side of the circuit. I can probably use the other one as the Overshoot Switch, to connect the motor's inductive kick to the top capacitor, in both directions. The patent shows TVS diodes, and mlurye showed that they can provide overvoltage protection, without the Overshoot Switch. So connecting the motor to both sides of the top cap, at the right instant, is the logical thing Gray was doing with it.

[martin]

That spark swirling sounds REALLY cool. Everything that you're saying sounds logical. Hopefully you'll get more positive results.

Any luck with the hi-res pics? I had an older dvd burner that transfers vcr tapes to dvd all built into one unit. It would play back the dvd's ok when played by the unit, but when you looked at them in a computer dvd player, it wouldnt show a directory or anything. Weird.