Gray Tube Replication

[Ghst]

@ghst

can you show us a circuit diagram.....that attraction of your alligator clip to the CSET sounds like what dollard was getting in the videos on wireless transmission of power but with the light bulbs....and an aluminum strip if i remember right

Nat I ran wire from grids to induction coil. where I connected the grid wire to the coil I just clipped on a test lead (with alligator clip). The other end of the test leads alligator clip was touched to the outside, plastic container. As the capacitor charges up, the alligator clip will stick to the plastic housing of the CSET. This may or mat not happen if you have copper grids. I used small expanded metal mesh, and a gold plated steel rod for electrodes.

[Aaron]

coil shape

@everyone

Well, just to throw another piece of wood on the fire....

The coils in this pic do not look like the regular "popping" coils in his demo's. It actually looks like the popping coil is inside the larger gauge wire or am I seeing something else? Whatever's in the middle sure looks like it's not sticking out past the larger windings.

Those coils do resemble the overall motor coil shapes. What I found in my experiments is that the coil pulses so fast/sharp that the entire field seems to be focused at the diameter of the core. On a regular slower charged coil, the field is expanded over a larger area and you can get some good repulsion even a bit away from the core...with this effect, it seems that making the coil so that you maximize the core surface against core surface or core surface against a magnet the same shape as the core surface, you will capture the mechanical work optimally.

The coil popping ones in the article picture don't look to much different as far as the concept of a big fat core face.

[Aaron]

Congratulations Ghst!

Well Its curve Ball time! Let me pitch this to you. Remember I said I couldn't get the Discharge to happen inside the tube? Well , It did! And check out how I got it to happen. I hooked every thing up as before. but this time I connected the capacitor to the negative on the ignition coil. I connected 12V positive to the lowvoltage electrode with diodes arrows pointing toward the tube. Now the capacitor was charging Highvoltage was jumping to the grid. also I would get a few sparks to jump the gap into the low voltage side. Now I still couldn't get the capacitor to discharge inside the tube. So I connected a jumper wire like a branch between the load coil and off the grid wire. When the capacitor had charged this time It was over 1000V, I would touch off a puff spark to the low voltage. But but by accident, I let the alligator clip come into contact with the outside of the plactis tubes container and it was magnetically attracted to the grid because it stuck to the outside of the tube.Thats when It happened. a very fast bright flash from inside the tube and I heard the capacitor pop. The flash was either Blue or Green I'm not sure it happens so fast, but it was very bright. I let the capacitor start charging again and layed the clip on top of the tube and It did it again. I can actually feel the tube attracting the metal clip.

Congratulations - it seems like you got it.

It sounds like your cap is hooked up right this time but with your diagram you posted before, you show the coil is connected to the grids by the LV rod. What I'm getting to is that if the HV rod is closer to the grid than it is to the LV rod...just a little bit closer...the HV discharge from ignition coil almost is forced to hit the grid first before it can get to the LV rod...this way, you're forcing the collision between ignition coil and capacitor first then it gets to ground at LV side second.

Without modifying your grid, try this...simply move the HV rod so that it is cocked off at a small angle so it is just a hair closer to the grids...doing this, I doubt you'll need the jumper. This will bring the two positive potentials closer together and will make it easier for the collision before moving to the LV side.

It would probably work better for your setup if you had the grid only over the HV rod, then it is also ensured that the cap can discharge by being forced to hit the HV rod first before it's own way to ground at the LV rod.

You can make it work without your jumper method but based on your diagram and what you're describing, you're getting the effect.

Do you have a scope?

It is hard to tell what the magnetic attraction is to the jumper wire if you're using a grid made of ferrous metal.

[lamare]

I'm a bit lost...

768 volts is plenty to get the event inside the tube.

Hi Aaron and all,

I'm a bit lost in all the information on this thread.
Can you (someone?) point me / repost to the schematic you use to get the event inside the tube with just 768 Volts?

Regards,

-- Arend --

[lamare]

I have heard many speculate that 28 is a thyratron tube. Your theory is one I have considered as well. I think this is what happened in freeukpower's circuit. I have had somewhat similar results, but not nearly as pronounced as his. I cant figure out why it takes so many tries to get this to fire correctly. I realize everything has to be exactly right, but what is the "right" that takes so many times to get. Is it it spark timing? Spark duration? Capacitor charge? What's off when it doesn't fire? Are the caps having to get charged with radiant energy before they fire? This is why I think a radiant supply would make this work much better. But who knows.

As far as I can tell, the basic principle of the CSET is that the rods emit a longitudinal / scalar (shock) wave, which is captured by the grids. Apparantly, these kind of waves are capable of sucking power out of the vacuum, probably by separating positron-electron pairs that are out there "constantly popping in and out of existence" in the vacuum, according to Quantum theory.

I think "radiant energy" must be electricity using positrons as charge carriers instead of electrongs, which explains totally different behaviors.

As for the question "what is right?" - most likely the answer is in the rise / fall times of the voltage pulses on the rods. If the rods are to emit shockwaves, they have to rise/drop very suddenly, like within 10 nanosecs or so. See Tod Johnsons comments on: http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/MKay5.pdf

Johnson is using a Marx generator to create a very fast-rising pulse.

Regards,

-- Arend --

[Ghst]

You can make it work without your jumper method but based on your diagram and what you're describing, you're getting the effect.

Yes, I'm getting the effect. The discharge is happening inside the tube. Actually, it is occurring between the grid and the spark gap mostly. It does sometimes occur at other points along the high voltage rod, between the rod and the inner grid. But the effect is automatic. I have got to get the effect to happen when I want it to happen. I have now had the effect to happen with discharge voltages ranging from 400V to 1500V with a series of discharges anywhere in between. But They do not happen immediately when I close the switch on the low voltage rod. I'm going to have to try different high voltage capacitor and try to get control over when and how powerful the discharge will be. A spontaneous discharge is no good, like a camera taking photos when it wants to. A discharge not happening at the proper time is useless.

[Ghst]

Ghst Schematic

Here is a link to my schematic. this is how I have it currently "Hooked Up".
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1778/ghstschema1.jpg

[lamare]

About colors of discharges

Hi all,

I just wanted to share with you some insight into the different colors you might see in sparks, etc.

Gas atoms emit light when they are "excited". That is: when the electrons that are circling around an atom core absorb some kind of energy (for example from an applied electric field) and jump into a higher orbit. At some point, the electrons will fall back into their original orbit and at then a photon (light) is emited.

The interesting thing about this proces is that the colors of the emited photons are very distinct for each and every kind of atom:

Spectra of Gas Discharges

For every atom, you see a pattern of lines, each line showing a distinct color pattern that specific atom is able to emit. This phenomenon is for example used by astronomers to determine the composition of a star, like our sun.

Sparks cause this specific effect in gas atoms within the gap. So, what could cause green sparks?

Oxygen:
Solar spectrum vs. auroral spectrum

This is how this looks when oxygen is excited high up in the air, in the so-called aura:
http://climate.gi.alaska.edu/Curtis/aurora/101300_2.jpg


Also see:
Why are there Colors in the Aurora?
"Different gases give off different colors when they are excited. Oxygen at about 60 miles up gives off the familiar yellow-green color, Oxygen at higher altitudes (about 200 miles above us) gives the all red auroras."


What causes auroras to have different colors?
"The chief constituents of the atmosphere are nitrogen (78 percent) and Oxygen ( 22 percent). The green light comes from the oxygen atoms being stimulated to emit light as the electrons collide with them and cause the oxygenic electrons to take quantum jumps. When the atoms de-excite, they emit light at a single frequency which we see as green. At 400 - 1000 kilometers above the ground, auroras first become visible but by about 100 kilometers, the atmosphere is too dense for the atoms to give of enough light between collisions among themselves. At lower altitudes, nitrogen emits with a faint blue color and a pinkish color."


So, when you see a green discharge event, you basically see the same thing as in a neon bulb, just another color because it is caused by excited oxygen atoms instead of neon atoms.

[Aaron]

circuit mods

Here is a link to my schematic. this is how I have it currently "Hooked Up".
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1778/ghstschema1.jpg

Just connect the LV side to the ground of the ignition coil and you should have it working better...it needs a straight ground to jump to in order to be reliable...when it works with the LV side going straight to ground, then you can worry about recovery and have a battery there...you can also remove the diode for now from the LV side if you just put it to ground.

When the cap is charged up, it should happen flawlessly when you close the LV switch.

When you do put a + to the LV side with a diode...it will for example be a + on a battery while the (-) of the battery is going to the common ground like at the ignition coil ground. Putting it straight to the + on the ignition coil isn't really the same thing.

[nat1971a]

@ghst

thanks for the circuit.

If i understand your post correctly then the plastic CSET case is acting as a conductor as that is when your capacitor discharged

[Ghst]

@ghst

thanks for the circuit.

If i understand your post correctly then the plastic CSET case is acting as a conductor as that is when your capacitor discharged

Yes, but it may have been coincidental. After noticing that there was a magnetic attraction there, I decided to toy around with it a little. I've noticed that at some point Grey stopped putting the FFF around the motor and started putting it around the CSET. So I'm tinkering with the winding around my CSET to see if there are noticeable benefits. And Its a handy place to wind a inductor to charge the capacitor.

[lamare]

My thoughts on the workings of the Gray tube and radiant electricity

Hi all,

Yesterday, I posted some info about the different colors that one can observe when gas atoms are excited. This is the principle that is being used in gas "tube lights", like for example all those "neon signs" our cities are filled with, those small neon bulbs we use for testing, ordinary TL's and of course those curved "energy saving" light bulbs which I still don't know a proper English word for...

When a gas is ionized, becomes a plasma, the gas atoms are that much excited that electrons are freed from the atom nuclei and no longer orbit a nucleus. The gas becomes conductive, which is what happens in a spark gap as well as in a gas light bulb. Once the gas is conductive, it is relatively easy to maintain it in a conductive state: less potential (voltage) is needed to keep the gas conductive as is needed to kick it into conductive state. That's why TL's are equiped with those "starter" tubes, to get them going.

Based on this, I dare to doubt the green gas discharge phenomenon you guys are withnessing is "THE" event we're after. From what I read in the posted schematics, you have a coil and a capacitor connected to the grids and you charge the capacitor by pulsing the HV rod, be it using (tiny) sparks jumping from the HV rod to the grid, be it because of capacitive coupling between the HV rod and the grids.

When the gas-discharge event happens, you have both the HV and the LV rod as well as the grids charged to a high voltage, and suddenly pull the LV rod down to ground trough a diode, a diode switched in reverse mode.

Aaron describes that what happens is that the voltage of the rod suddenly drops to ground (correct), because it takes a while (a short while) before the diode slams shut. Also correct.

Then, as far as I understand, Aaron states that the current from the HV source, trough the spark gap, and trough the LV rod has a momemtum and gets suddenly blocked by the diode now shut. Also correct.

The question is: what happens then?

Aaron states that, because of the momentum, the HV potential has no place to go but to "explode" 90 degrees out of the rod. And that's something I have to doubt, because the HV charge has another obvious place to go, which is to go nowhere and stay where it is. In my opinion, that is much more likely to happen.

The momentum there is, is caused by a parasite effect of the rod, which is basically a wire that has some parasite inductance like all wires. This means that it generates a magnetic field once conducting current, which on its turn tends to keep the current going in one direction and opposes sudden stop of current flowing.
You can compare this effect with a (long) water tube. If water is flowing trough a tube and you suddenly shut it off at the end, you will hear a "bang" (you can easily replicate this under the shower). What happens is that the flowing water has a momentum, which is suddenly stopped. This causes the pressure at the end of the tube to increase rapidly and causes it to vibrate and make a noise: the momentum-energy is dissipated.

So, what do I think happens?

In the beginning, you have both LV and HV rods charged at a high voltage. You suddenly pull the LV rod down to ground trough the diode. This causes the spark gap to fire, a current starts flowing, which slams the diode shut. This happens in an instance, so there won't be very much of momentum being built up. But, at the moment the diode shuts off, the spark gap is still conducting, pulling the LV rod right back up to the high voltage at the HV rod.
In other words: you get a very short (negative) pulse on the LV rod, with a fall time depending on how fast you pull the diode to ground and a rise time depending on the shut-off characteristics of the diode.

This pulse influences the electric (and magnetic) field around the rod, hopefully by emiting a shock/vector wave, which kicks upon the gas atoms floating around the rod.

If the pulse is strong enough, enough atoms become ionezed to create a conductive path from the grids to the LV rod, and you get a discharge of your load-capacitor trough the coil and then from the grids to the LV rod. Given the high voltage of the grid, a considerable current can flow for an instance of time, until the diode slams shut. Now because of the coil at the load, this will build up a momentum at that coil, and you will see a positive pulse at the grids on the scope, because the coil will tend to maintain the discharge current in the direction of the LV rod and therefore pushes the grid up to the potential needed to maintain the current.

However, IMHO, this is not the main event we’re after. As far as I can tell, what you see now is “just” an ordinary gas discharge as in every ordinary gas light bulb.

BUT

But, we’re on the right track! What this proofs, is that short DC pulses are capable of kicking electrons to such an extent gas atoms are ionized. Now ionizing a gas is the easy part. What we’re after, IMHO, is creating free positrons out of the quantum positron-electron pairs that are available in the vacuum everywhere around us. Electron-positron pairs are bound to one another by a binding energy of 1.02 MeV, in the order of a hundred thousand times the chemical binding energies in strongest bound atomic solids ( Chemical bond energy example ), and in the order of a thousand times the energy binding an electron to its nucleus ( Electron binding energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ).

So, for the effect I think we’re really after, we need voltage gradients a thousand times stronger then needed for the ionization of a gas. What I mean by a voltage gradient, is the speed of sudden change of potential, in this case of the rod within the Gray tube.

For example: if you have a pulse with a voltage of 1000V and a rise time of 1 msec, you have a gradient of 1000 / 1e-3 = 1 MV/sec. If you want that to be a 1000 times stronger, you either need to apply one MV, or get the rise time down to 1 micro-sec, or some combination of these. For example, 5KV and a rise-time of 5 micro-sec would also get the same gradient.

The question is, of course, what kind of gradient do we need?

Looking at Johnsons data ( http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/MKay5.pdf ) it appears that 2 kV with a rise time of 10 nsec would do the job, meaning a gradient of 200 GV/sec….


Then what??

So, what difference would it make? Why would ionizing a gas not be the effect we’re after and why would “ionizing” positron-electron pairs suddenly be the magic effect that produces free energy? Why would a free positron behave any different from an ion, it’s just conducting electric current, right?

Nope. IMHO, they key to radiant energy are positrons. Positrons are interesting fellows. They have the same size and mass as an electron, but an opposite charge. That means they most likely cannot enter into solid state material (or fluids), because of they are positively charged and are therefore opposed by the nuclei of any material.
That means that the electric currents associated with radiant, or cold, electricity take place *outside* the surface of any material, while normal electric currents occurs *just within* the surface of a (semi)conductor. In other words: with positron-currents you can expect the strange effects Bedini and Dollard show: conductivity of plastic material like lighting up neon-bulbs by touching the plastic surface of a battery “charged with radiant energy”.

Now that is interesting, because if positron-currents take place *outside* of the surface of the conducting material, there are no (or at least much less) atoms to bump into. In other words: you get super-conductivity at room temperature(!!), especially if you’re circuitry is in a vacuum. Under normal pressure there are always some gas atoms to bump into, resulting in some resistance for our current, but still much less resistance as electrons would see *inside* the surface.

That has consequences for how to design “radiant” electrical circuits. For starters, forget about transistors, diodes, resistors, etc. All these things are packed in a plastic housing, which is a conductor for positron based currents. So, there is no way you can switch / control radiant electricity using ordinary electronics.

Secondly, you can only use air-core coils for radiant electricity, which cannot even be wound around an “isolator” like a plastic tube. Whenever a wire comes into touch with any material, even “isolating” material, a positron based electric current will be more then happy to use that if it happens to be the shortest path to ground. So, if you wind a coil using an “isolated” wire to prevent current jumping from one winding to another, you’re “isolation” won’t work and you might just as well take a straight piece of wire (or even plastic….).

Third, you have to take care of how you combine your radiant circuitry with any classic “hot” electric circuitry. If you lead a (semi)super-conducting positron current trough a wire, that will be capable of inducing considerable normal electric currents *inside* the wire, which will not be appreciated by most components, especially semi-conductors…. In other words: radiant energy must be given a distinct path to ground, not sharing any wire with your normal circuitry.


One more thing: if you’re after collecting positrons, the last thing you want to do is charge your grids to a high positive potential, because that will oppose the positrons instead of attrack them. So, if you do want to charge your grids, I suggest to charge it to a high *negative* potential….


Regards to all and keep up the good work!

We *will* get there eventually. As my brother says :”the last thing you try, always works”…. And he’s right, just pay attention when you’re searching for something…. You *always* find it at the the last place you look for it

-- Arend --

[Raui]

Lamare,
I like your thoughts on the grey tube. Still constructing my grey tube I can't speculate with results I have personally obtained however I have kept a fair close eye on everyone's progress (which is awesome by the way guys ). I can't say if I agree with you or Aaron about the 'exploding 90 degree potentials' however if you are correct I do have an idea which you might like.

In the thread: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ead.php?t=3950, boguslaw states that he believes that voltage is just electrons in their lowest energy, or wave, state. At first I thought this was absurd however I thought about it and now I actually don't mind that theory. One thing that could be happening here is the potential is staying within the tube and the succession of the following events creates the longitudinal waves which when they hit the grids due to interference create electrons. This could explain why Tesla observed current in copper when they were hit with radiant energy.

Just some food for thought,
Raui

[Ghst]

I pitched a Double!

I rebuilt my voltage chopper I'm using a small AC motor to drive a lobed wheel that is opening and closing automotive ignition points. I bought a new condenser, and set it all up. I can turn it by hand and get sparks to jump from the extended ignition coil shroud to the positive and negative connectors on the same coil about 3 to 4 inches. Any way the added power is helping the burst effect in the tube. I slipped a poly-grommet onto the high voltage rod and get two seperate bursts at one time.
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7...newchopper.jpg
The one on the left is at the spark gap the othre is at the grommet. So you can induce multiple bursts at one time inside the CSET. But I have to find another material, A Later burst set the grommet on fire. I'm still tinkering!

[boguslaw]

Lamare,
I like your thoughts on the grey tube. Still constructing my grey tube I can't speculate with results I have personally obtained however I have kept a fair close eye on everyone's progress (which is awesome by the way guys ). I can't say if I agree with you or Aaron about the 'exploding 90 degree potentials' however if you are correct I do have an idea which you might like.

In the thread: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ead.php?t=3950, boguslaw states that he believes that voltage is just electrons in their lowest energy, or wave, state. At first I thought this was absurd however I thought about it and now I actually don't mind that theory. One thing that could be happening here is the potential is staying within the tube and the succession of the following events creates the longitudinal waves which when they hit the grids due to interference create electrons. This could explain why Tesla observed current in copper when they were hit with radiant energy.

Just some food for thought,
Raui

Exactly Raui, exactly. I think that voltage or rather potential are electrons in wave state. Moreover I state that Tesla knew about it, he knew also how to treat them to not cancel their potential by chaotic interference but create stationary wave between transmitter and receiver. Moreover Steven Mark realized that he can push a little so made stationary wave and it will rotate with incredible speed on closed conductor surface.
Maybe Ed Leedscalnin even knew about them better then Tesla and they are wave which has rotation imprinted . That rotation will be ... yes spin !
So according to Leedscalnin we have a wave with rotation and second wave with counter rotation coming from second terminal of power source canceling or "eating" the first one.Killing the dipole!

Now if that wave rotate in always the same direction we have in every moment two kinds of elementary wave part , depending on angle to the flow direction of wave.One is electric ,the second - magnetic. Or one is transverse and second is longitudinal. Longitudinal is probably magnetic, transverse is probably electric. Both are just waves in surrounding medium