Gray Tube Replication

[Electrotek]

My Basic Circuit

With a 1uF MOC at 6kV, this circuit discharges just faster than once per second, but the rate gets faster with a closer spark gap. And it's a lot faster with a low pF cap. With that, the plasma isn't much fatter than the normal HV spark, and it's yellow rather than the blue produced by the larger cap.

[Electrotek]

Diode Backwards

I had the diode wrong in my last post, but I did an edit and fixed it.

[Reiyuki]

Hi Electrotek,

What you have looks a lot like a regular DC Tesla Coil.

Even if it didn't work it's a good variation, and helps all of us narrow down what 'works'. You're running above 4joules of discharge energy, and have a coil in use. I'd wager that a second capacitor is needed a-la ght's setup.

If you get a chance, try just discharging energy across the capacitor. When a microwave dies, the capacitor is often what fails. That's why there's so many spares to be found online.

On another note, it's interesting that there are several Tesla Coilers that use MMC(multiple mini capacitors) strings in series and parallel. Many coilers swear that swapping to MMC banks get big performance gains and can draw big sparks from their coils... MMC banks charge several strings and discharge them at once through the primary. Perhaps the parallel capacitor paths create a minor radiant event that results in impressive performance for the joules discharged.

[Jbignes5]

Little tid bits.

I don't know if you know this stuff but it made alot of sense to me. Maybe it might help you guys figure out what you need to do and what is happening in your experiments.

The mechanism of the electric spark and its possible role in tapping Radiant Energy

I know you probably knew this stuff, but looking back at it couldn't hurt. As I have been following your guys experiments it occurred to me that this stuff had already been studied. But it might help you to understand what is going on and might point to how the tube worked. I don't think you guys are at the right voltage levels needed to have a true radiant event. If you did I think the small systems you have working here would go poof! Not just from the large voltages but from the current it would draw in!
They talk about avalanches of current developing from a super conducting channel made from plasma. Hence why you only get the effect of a radiant event every few seconds. Increasing the voltage would facilitate that channel faster making the radiant event faster as well. Of course you have to do something with that current or it will self destruct your rig. One other curious thing to mention is the fact that he says to use steel for the hv annode. One note was the mentioning of the fact that it had to be in the open air or air pumped to several atmospheres in order for the event to happen.
If I have this wrong then please let me know and please goto the link and read it I think it is all there for you to take and increase your output! Just be careful because opening up a channel for too long could be deadly.

[UncleFester]

Good idea on using that motor, would save alot of work. I am still designing my new motor, but it will most likely be cast composite with coil mounts formed into the rotor. Stator will be of 15mm wall PVC pipe.

Tad

Tad: That's interesting about the Marx Generator. I know they'll work quite well at the appropriate frequency.

I'm thinking about getting a Smart Drive motor from a Fisher and Paykel washing machine. I hear they're around $50 on E-bay.

[Electrotek]

Hi Electrotek,

What you have looks a lot like a regular DC Tesla Coil.

Even if it didn't work it's a good variation, and helps all of us narrow down what 'works'. You're running above 4joules of discharge energy, and have a coil in use. I'd wager that a second capacitor is needed a-la ght's setup.

If you get a chance, try just discharging energy across the capacitor. When a microwave dies, the capacitor is often what fails. That's why there's so many spares to be found online.

On another note, it's interesting that there are several Tesla Coilers that use MMC(multiple mini capacitors) strings in series and parallel. Many coilers swear that swapping to MMC banks get big performance gains and can draw big sparks from their coils... MMC banks charge several strings and discharge them at once through the primary. Perhaps the parallel capacitor paths create a minor radiant event that results in impressive performance for the joules discharged.

That's interesting about the Tesla Coil similarity. I may dig mine out and try it. But this circuit does produce the plasma spark effect. It uses an NST, an MOD, MOC, and the MOT secondary. I did do a discharge across just the cap. Made a pretty loud bang. And I've done a test with a second capacitor, connected across the CSET from the rod to the grid, with the main cap in front of the diode. edit: The second cap isn't show in this picture.



This is what it did, using caps which were much smaller than 1uF:



My next project will be to combine this diode T-tap circuit with my basic circuit I've been using all along:



Then I'll have to figure out how to hook the coil to the grid and still get it to work. This is probably where the FFF coils come in.

I wonder how the MMC's all discharge at once? Is this in some way equivalent to a segmented arc gap, as far as the frequency? I plan to test Ghst's nails, in parallel with my diode.

The Joule values are difficult to calculate, since the NST has a high amount which is added in. Here's the waveform:



The negative parts of the wave are from the NST, so they add 90 Joules. (6kV at 15mAmp.) The positive part of the wave includes 45 Joules from the NST, together with the energy from the capacitor. Your value of 4 Joules from the cap is pretty close, considering that it discharges before it's full. Otherwise, the 1uF cap will hold 18 Joules. (1/2 times kV squared times uF.) (edit: I guess you divide by the capacitance.) Ideally, the next positive half wave from the NST will partially charge the cap, then the circuit will fire again with the next negative half wave. At least that's how I tentatively understand it.

[Electrotek]

New Circuit Configuration

I updated my circuit in preparation for an upcoming test:



This circuit also works if I move the spark gap to the top, between the coil and the diode/capacitor connection. With this modification, the circuit looks like half of the circuit in the first patent, minus the magnetic harness. It's starting to look like the harness is where the OU comes in.

With the circuit shown in the picture, I can use two supplies and discharge them through the same arc gap. This is where I'll put the CSET.

[Electrotek]

Theory of Operation

I've been rethinking my recent post about the Joule values of my puff spark. When using the secondary's center tap as the return wire it's obvious that the transformer isn't providing part of the energy, since this is only a ground. In fact, I can turn the transformer off and the effect still occurs when I discharge the circuit. Although this isn't the case with a larger cap and the full secondary.

So what I'm thinking is the coil's CEMF collides with the cap's energy in the spark gap. This eliminates the Lorentz Force and allows the spark to expand. With magnetic quenching, the CEMF doesn't have time to rise as high as normal, so the spark is louder and less expansive. And the size of the inductor does have a determining effect on the quality of the puff, since a larger coil produces more CEMF.

Based on this theory, the spark only has 12.7 Joules, since a cap will discharge automatically after charging to around .7 of the circuit's voltage.

[Reiyuki]

The jury's still out as to what exact components are critical for the gray device to 'work'.

I see the diode as not necessary but certainly helpful. But without it, you're more likely to turn the gray tube into a low power Tesla Coil, which means most Tesla Coils built on the web would be putting out noticeable radiant discharges.. which is not likely as I don't see a lot of 'green flash' articles from coilers.

The fact that Ghst can get the effect from a single cap makes the diode all the more important. Ghst's tying the + side of the diode to somewhere near the spark-gap is novel, close enough to open the diode but not enough to generate an arc across it. I was never able to get discharges across the diode, but I hadn't tried his method yet. If Gray put his diode in the CSET the electrostatic charge alone might be enough to open it.

- 2kv or higher, DC preferably
- ~4joule energy or higher
- 200 turn coil or more
- HV diode that's wired similar to Ghst's setup above (to 'flutter' open)


Best of luck, all

[Electrotek]

Tesla's Radiant Energy

The jury's still out as to what exact components are critical for the gray device to 'work'.

I see the diode as not necessary but certainly helpful. Leaving it out turns the gray tube into a low power Tesla Coil, which means most Tesla Coils built on the web would be putting out noticeable radiant discharges.

The fact that Ghst can get the effect from a single cap makes the diode all the more important. Ghst's tying the + side of the diode to somewhere near the spark-gap is novel, close enough to open the diode but not enough to generate an arc across it. I was never able to get discharges across the diode, but I hadn't tried his method yet. If Gray put his diode in the CSET the electrostatic charge alone might be enough to open it.

- 2kv or higher, DC preferably
- ~4joule energy or higher
- 200 turn coil or more
- HV diode that's wired similar to Ghst's setup above (to 'flutter' open)


Best of luck, all

In my mind, the jury's still as to whether Gray was using Radiant Energy, or instead had a high frequency circuit with a special high frequency motor. I can see valid arguments either way.

Here's some outtakes from the book "Secrets of Cold War Technology: Project HAARP and Beyond By: Gerry Vassilkatos"

"Through successive experimental arrangements, Tesla discovered several facts concerning the production of his effect. First, the cause was undoubtedly found in the abruptness of charging. It was in the switch closure, the very instant of "closure and break", which thrust the effect out into space. The effect was definitely related to time, IMPULSE time. Second, Tesla found that it was imperative that the charging process occurred in a single impulse. No reversal of current was permissible, else the effect would not manifest.

"Imperative toward obtaining the desired rare effect, the capacitor and it's connected wire lines had to be so chosen as to receive and discharge the acquired electrostatic charge in unidirectional staccato fashion. The true Tesla circuit very much resembles a pulse jet, where no back pressure ever stops the onrushing flow. Electrostatic charge rises to a maximum, and is discharged much more quickly. The constant application of high voltage dynamo pressure to the circuit insures that continual successions of "charge-rapid discharge' are obtained. It is then and only then that the Tesla Effect is observed. Pulses literally flow through the apparatus from the dynamo. The capacitor, disruptor, and its attached wire lines, behave as the flutter valve.

"Tesla Transformers are not magnetoelectric devices, they use radiant shockwaves, and produce pure voltage without current. No university High Frequency Coil must ever be called a "Tesla Coil", since the devices usually employed in demonstration halls are the direct result of apparatus perfected by Sir Oliver Lodge and not by Nikola Tesla. The Tesla Transformer is an impulse apparatus, and cannot be as easily constructed except by strict conformity with parameters which Tesla enunciated. Tesla Transformers produce extraordinary white impulse discharges of extreme length and pressure, which exceed the alternating violet spark displays of Lodge Coils. This is illustrated by noting the manner in which Tesla Transformers are actually constructed. While looking and seeming the same, each system actually performs very different functions. Lodge Coils are alternators. Tesla Transformers are unidirectional impulsers. The most efficient Tesla Transformations were obtained only when the dis-ruptive radiating wire line equaled the mass of the helical coil.

"Electrons were blocked from flowing through the wire length, while the radiant pulse was released over the coil surface as a gaseous pulse. Electrons should have drifted through the wire but, during each impulse period, were blocked by the line resistance. Thus, the gaseous mobile carriers were released to flow outside the wire, a pulse which travelled along the outer coil surface from end to end.

"Tesla addressed the notion that ether streams were being pulled through his Transformers, drawn in at higher natural pressure, and accelerated in the sharp electrical discharge. As electrical systems, Tesla apparatus cannot completely be understood or explained. One must view Teslian Technology as an ether gas technology, one capable of being explained only through gas-dynamic analogues."

Does the mass of a CSET grid equal the mass of the rod electrode? Also, Gray's device #28 was not a diode. It was a high current vacuum tube, symbolized in the patent diagram as a triode:

[Electrotek]

Neutral Grid

I did a test with a capacitor connected between an otherwise unconnected outer grid of my Tube and the ground on the NST. After firing the Tube several times, I'm not getting any reading at all on the cap. I think the reason Ghst is is because he's getting a much larger area discharge, and because he has a battery in the circuit. It may be that his setup is inductively coupling the voltage from the battery to the grid, then adding an overshoot with the sudden quenching.

[Reiyuki]

This is how I make sense of Aaron's explanation and Ghst's replication. The diode 'leaks' when some energy is sent to it and creates a fluttering effect, causing repeated 'pressure waves' that radiate outward when they lose their path to ground.

I'll have a chance this weekend to try it out.

[Aaron]

bigger pic

Rei,

Do you have a bigger version of that pic?

[Jbignes5]

Weird..

Why has the graphite been omitted from these experiments? I heard something about graphite becomming a negative resistor in these cases. Was that ruled out already by experiments?

[Ghst]

Different Effect

I changed my LV electrode, from the steel drill bit to a piece of 10 gauge single strand copper, with a circle twisted on the end that is inside the tube. I got some strange effects.
This is the preburst or the Bright flash.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3...electrode1.jpg

This is the burst or after burst?
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6...electrode2.jpg

Oh I also have changed the finish nails. I'm using pin with heads. Their smaller so that I can get more gaps within the spark gap.(multiple spark gap)