Gray Tube Replication

[ahoesch]

Can you post a schematic of how everything was hooked up when this happened?

Unfortunately not exactly. After the thing went wild it took me a while (taking things apart) to realize that the ignition coil had died. But it was something in the lines of the attached schematic.

I am currently winding a new power supply (high voltage coil with lots of isolation) and am sure to see that effect again as soon as I can generate high voltage again. I will provide a more accurate schematic then.

[ahoesch]

Hi all,

I just observed an interesting effect that unfortunately toasted my HV power supply. When the spark gap in my tube fired the voltage over the capacitor of the HV power supply started to oscillate for 100ns with a very great amplitude (over 10kV, in one case over 15kV). Since my power supply delivers 5kV this means that the voltage in the capacitor became negative (-10kV)!? Any idea what's happening here? Is this negative resistance or normal LC oscillations? I have attached an image showing this event (the first one with only 10kV oscillations). I unfortnately can't repeat this experiment right now since this event toasted my power supply consisting of a car ignition coil, a bridge rectifier of diodes rated for 12kV and a capacitor in the 48nF range. The ignition coil is toast now, most likely the rectifier diodes as well. No problem, I planned to build a more powerful power supply anyway. But I would like to understand what happened here to avoid toasting my new power supply as well. Any ideas?

While winding a high voltage coil I was thinking over what I encoutered and came to the conclusion that Marvin Coile must have seen the effect as well. While studying the description of the gray tube in the Patrick Kelly document I was always wondering what the diode on the hv side (over C1) was good for? Since I didn't understand its reason I ommited it in my experiments. Now I know that it's actually a very important component for the savety of the other components in the circuit. This diode would have shortened out the negative voltage of C1. Moreover I see that it's a good idea to have the overload spark gap. This would have helped with the voltage spikes in the other direction. I had to learn this the hard way.

[pranav2010]

vibrator

i found this file on panacea

may it useful to us

[BASHydro]

What does happen?

One thing I would hope anyone would meditate on is Ohms Law.

What happens when you take the voltage/current relationship WAY out of proportion?

Good luck!

Aaron I would love to hear your thoughts on this.



Here is a bit on what ohms law is: Ohm's Law defines the relationships between (P) power, (E) voltage, (I) current, and (R) resistance. One ohm is the resistance value through which one volt will maintain a current of one ampere.

( I ) Current is what flows on a wire or conductor like water flowing down a river. Current flows from negative to positive on the surface of a conductor. Current is measured in (A) amperes or amps.

( E ) Voltage is the difference in electrical potential between two points in a circuit. It's the push or pressure behind current flow through a circuit, and is measured in (V) volts.

( R ) Resistance determines how much current will flow through a component. Resistors are used to control voltage and current levels. A very high resistance allows a small amount of current to flow. A very low resistance allows a large amount of current to flow. Resistance is measured in ohms.

( P ) Power is the amount of current times the voltage level at a given point measured in wattage or watts.

[Ghst]

Ed Gray Motor Test 1

I've been busy working on my test motor. Here is a video of my progress. This is running only from the 12V battery in the video. I still have a lot to do but I think that I've made some progress.
YouTube - Ed Gray Motor Test1

[boguslaw]

Hi all,

I just observed an interesting effect that unfortunately toasted my HV power supply. When the spark gap in my tube fired the voltage over the capacitor of the HV power supply started to oscillate for 100ns with a very great amplitude (over 10kV, in one case over 15kV). Since my power supply delivers 5kV this means that the voltage in the capacitor became negative (-10kV)!? Any idea what's happening here? Is this negative resistance or normal LC oscillations? I have attached an image showing this event (the first one with only 10kV oscillations). I unfortnately can't repeat this experiment right now since this event toasted my power supply consisting of a car ignition coil, a bridge rectifier of diodes rated for 12kV and a capacitor in the 48nF range. The ignition coil is toast now, most likely the rectifier diodes as well. No problem, I planned to build a more powerful power supply anyway. But I would like to understand what happened here to avoid toasting my new power supply as well. Any ideas?

Ah,at least any effect.Do you have schematic ?
The more I think about it I'm sure that Gray tips are very good clues required to explain Cole device.
"Recreating the lightning" and "splitting the positive"
You have done the first I suppose, unfortunately I don't know yet what the other means.Probably that is what allow to do first periodically without equipment damage ;-)

Any thoughts ?

[boguslaw]

While winding a high voltage coil I was thinking over what I encoutered and came to the conclusion that Marvin Coile must have seen the effect as well. While studying the description of the gray tube in the Patrick Kelly document I was always wondering what the diode on the hv side (over C1) was good for? Since I didn't understand its reason I ommited it in my experiments. Now I know that it's actually a very important component for the savety of the other components in the circuit. This diode would have shortened out the negative voltage of C1. Moreover I see that it's a good idea to have the overload spark gap. This would have helped with the voltage spikes in the other direction. I had to learn this the hard way.

I think that diode is TOO slow for that purpose, but the idea of using such device is quite right IMHO.However diode has one HUGE flaw - leaking voltage back.
Besides, did you found that Tariel Kapanadze most probably replicated Gray tube ?

[n84dafun]

Ghst, Nice video of your setup. I'm trying to get a motor setup myself, but I can't even get a coil to pop a magnet yet. Everytime I place my coil winding load in my circuit, the mixing discharge doesn't happen, only the weak HV discharge. The coil load also fries my diodes. Maybe the inductive kickback from the coil is so high that it fries the diodes. I don't know. Anyways, can you tell me what your circuit setup looks like? Is it the two point circuit with booster caps that Aaron uses? That's what I was using. I placed the coil load between the LV diodes (that blocks the HV potential) and the LV cap bank.

Brian
YouTube - AEVector's Channel

I've been busy working on my test motor. Here is a video of my progress. This is running only from the 12V battery in the video. I still have a lot to do but I think that I've made some progress.
YouTube - Ed Gray Motor Test1

[ahoesch]

I think that diode is TOO slow for that purpose, but the idea of using such device is quite right IMHO.However diode has one HUGE flaw - leaking voltage back.
Besides, did you found that Tariel Kapanadze most probably replicated Gray tube ?

I am just fighting with that or a related problem. I am done with winding my high voltage transformer on a ferrit core and am pulsing the primary with 20kHz. I have trouble rectifying the AC and getting a reasonable high voltage DC for my next gray tube experiments and I have no idea why. Please see the attached two PNGs. The yellow line shows the AC coming from the transformer. One volt on the oscilloscope corresponds to 1000V since I am measuring over a 8x10M + 82K voltage divider. So we have plus 3.6kV and - 4kV pulses!

The blue line shows the voltage behind a high voltage diode. No capacitor or load attached yet. What I am wondering is why I get +4.2kV pulses here. I should onl ysee the positive 3.6kV pulses here since I am currently rectifying with only one diode. Very weird! I really use the same voltage divider in front of and behind the diode. OK, may be the tollerances of the resistors are causing this (hard to believe).

The second PNG shows the same situation but with a 170nF capacitor attached behind the diode. The voltage gets even higher but keeps its form where I would have expected a very good DC (since no load is attached except the voltage divider of 80,082MOhm). I don't get it! If I stop pulsing the primary I see the voltage in the capacitor to go down slowly from 4.2kV to 0V in about a minute.

Any idea what is happening here? What am I doing wrong? Is the diode so slow that it drags down the voltage in the capacitor on the falling side of the hill before it finally slams shut? I tried that with a HV03-15, with another high voltage diode I purchased from surplus and also with 7 x 1N4007 in series. I get more or less the same result with all setups!??

Thanks!

[ahoesch]

I am just fighting with that or a related problem. I am done with winding my high voltage transformer on a ferrit core and am pulsing the primary with 20kHz. I have trouble rectifying the AC and getting a reasonable high voltage DC for my next gray tube experiments and I have no idea why. Please see the attached two PNGs. The yellow line shows the AC coming from the transformer. One volt on the oscilloscope corresponds to 1000V since I am measuring over a 8x10M + 82K voltage divider. So we have plus 3.6kV and - 4kV pulses!

The blue line shows the voltage behind a high voltage diode. No capacitor or load attached yet. What I am wondering is why I get +4.2kV pulses here. I should onl ysee the positive 3.6kV pulses here since I am currently rectifying with only one diode. Very weird! I really use the same voltage divider in front of and behind the diode. OK, may be the tollerances of the resistors are causing this (hard to believe).

The second PNG shows the same situation but with a 170nF capacitor attached behind the diode. The voltage gets even higher but keeps its form where I would have expected a very good DC (since no load is attached except the voltage divider of 80,082MOhm). I don't get it! If I stop pulsing the primary I see the voltage in the capacitor to go down slowly from 4.2kV to 0V in about a minute.

Any idea what is happening here? What am I doing wrong? Is the diode so slow that it drags down the voltage in the capacitor on the falling side of the hill before it finally slams shut? I tried that with a HV03-15, with another high voltage diode I purchased from surplus and also with 7 x 1N4007 in series. I get more or less the same result with all setups!??

Thanks!

In order to exclude resistor tollerance as a cause I have exchanged the two voltage dividers. I also exchanged the two slots on the oscilloscope. No way I get the same result over and over again which is 2000V more behind the diode than in front of it. How can that be?? I have not even attached any of my gray tube equipment yet and nevertheless already get results that are completely beyond me. Is high voltage allowed to behave like that? :-)

[ahoesch]

In order to exclude resistor tollerance as a cause I have exchanged the two voltage dividers. I also exchanged the two slots on the oscilloscope. No way I get the same result over and over again which is 2000V more behind the diode than in front of it. How can that be?? I have not even attached any of my gray tube equipment yet and nevertheless already get results that are completely beyond me. Is high voltage allowed to behave like that? :-)

It took me a while to realize that all the diodes I have here (two kinds of micro wave oven diodes and a couple of 1N40007 in series) are not suitable for rectifying 20kHz AC. One needs really fast diodes for this purpose with recovery times below 100ns. For all diodes I have here I was not even able to determine their recovery times from their datasheets which makes me believe that they are not suitable for any frequency beyond 50Hz. I have ordered very fast diodes in the meanwhile. May be this info helps one or the other encountering the same problem.

Once we have DC we use a carbon resistor or a diode (or both) in the gray circuit and let the high voltage potential slam against it causing the effect in the grid. I am wondering what diodes others are using for this purpose now that I have learned that recovery time is an important issue!?

[antena]

Choke

Hallo
Can I ask Aaron in the howthegraytubeworks.jpg what is the inductivity of the choke between the left diode and C1 ?
I have problem I dont have that choke and my ignition coil dont wana charge C1. When I switch on the circuit C1 is like short circuit and ignition coil is to weak to charge C1 so I have some beating in the ignition coil - its like some kind short circuit in the ignition coil.
Either I have bad ignition coil or I have something wrong.
Can Aaron or somebody pls answer me ?
Thanks a lot
Antena

[Aaron]

choke

Hi Antena, the choke is optional and I never measured inductance of the chokes I experimented with. My vids with the motor running, I didn't have a choke on those.

[antena]

choke

Hallo
ok I will try anyhow choke.
If I dont have choke I cannt charge cap C1 coz it look like some kind of short circuit in my ignition coil appears.
Can U write me pls what kind ignition coil u are using ? from which car and some type of ignition coil ? and where to get it ?
Antena

[pranav2010]

Some details on construction of the Gray Devive from present owner

i found this information on pes.com

Ed Gray's radiant energy motor #4 has two impulse coils, one mounted on the rotor and the other mounted inside of the stator housing. The stainless steel shaft is 30 inches long and almost 4" diameter with large bearings that are priced over $100.00 dollars each. It is obviously built to handle a lot of hp power.

The ROTOR coil mounted in motor #4 has 168 feet of magnet wire gauge #14 wound in it, and the core size is included in the file I uploaded to the archives named, Ed Gray Impulse cores motor #4.

This rotor core has a total of 154 layers of plates that make up the core stack. It also has 3 core sections that are 3/4 " thick each, one mounted on each end, and the third is mounted in the middle with 77 core leafs on each side of it. The core is a lotal of 6" long.

Ed Gray rotor coil has a total of 112 turns of magnet wire wound on it, with 13 layers on the first row, 14 on the second row, 14 on the third row, 15 on the forth row, 14 on the fifth row, 14 on the sixth row, 14 on the seventh row, and 14 on the eighth row.

Ed Gray's rotor 3/4" core sections have holes drilled in them with nylon inserts for insulation purposes from the mounting bolts holding the coil to the rotor shaft. The rotor shaft has a counter weight that equals the mass of the working rotor coil, this is to balance the rotor for high rpms.

The STATOR coil has a total of 115 turns of magnet wire wound on it, and this core size is also included in the file I uploaded to the archives named, Ed Gray Impulse cores motor #4. There are 13 layers of #14 gauge magnet wire on the first row, 15 on the second row, 13 on the third row, 15 on the forth row, 14 on the fifth row, 15 on the sixth row, 15 on the seventh row, and 15 on the eighth row. The stator coil has a a total of 175 feet of magnet wire wound on it.

There are three solid core sections that are 3/4" thick each. The one in the middle of the core has 92 layers of core leafs on each side of it, with a 3/4" solid section mounted on both ends of the cores. Gray stator core 3/4 inch sections have holes drilled and taped for bolt mounting to the inner tube of both of these Gray motors.

The cores in Gray's coils look to be composed of regular magnetic steel laminates, they can be stamped out of plate material.

There is no amorphous material in Gary's cores, there for, it is obvious to me that Metglass amorphous materials are not needed to achive this radiant energy effect..

Ed Grays motor #5 is constructed from very strong nylon and fiber glass grade phanolic materials that are green in color. The shaft is also 30" long and it is constructed of this green phanolic material, this is a very exspensive motor to reproduce. Gray's constructed his motors with100% high quality precision machine work, and spared no expence in his efforts.

I hope this information helps all you folks out there that are working on radiant energy circuits.

All the best, and have a great day every day.