Efficient Carburetor designs

[dave_cahoon]

Gassification is the key.

hi group,

The only way to get the mileage and clean burn from petroleum,
Ive found is by continuing to refine IT into gasses Using the old "water shift reaction".

Engines LOVE gasses and HATE liquids as fuel, for a number of reasons.

I suggest starting with kerosene its far more forgiving than gasoline and its clean.

Vaporize the kerosene into white smoke;
Mix with steam, hydrogen, exhaust gasses, or even air(dirtier);
Raise the temps as hi as possible with corona, plasma or thermal heat (using the exhaust ultimately)

Refine the kerosene into clear <C5 hydrocarbons and immediately consume them.
Clear permanent gasses, no longer a condensable liquid vapor. And no-longer kerosene.

last photo is me finding the autoignition temp of an unknown vegetable oil, the glass broke in the cold ambient air all the way around where the surface of the hot oil was!

Jetijs:
looks good but if you plan to turn your back on it, add a pressure relief electric cutoff switch and a pressure relief valve. Hint: there is one on every domestic water heater, some have em both.

Best regards
Dave

[dave_cahoon]

Jetijs,

In all of my designs since the flash off of the vegetable oil vapors. I no longer even think of heating bulk liquids and only drip drops of ? onto a hot surface.
x drips of oil and y drips of water....

Keeping sure that there is only enough oxidizer for partial pyrolysis or you will get a fire in the plumbing and melt things after materials tempertures are greater than their autoignition temps...

Dave

[Jetijs]

Hi dave
Thanks for your input!
Can you tell me what you mean with "water shift reaction"?

Today I tried to heat some gasoline. I found that it is much harder to control the temperature when heating gasoline than when heating water. As soon as you switch the heater ON, the heat plate gets very hot but the gasoline increases its temperature slowly and then, when the gasoline has reached the pre set temperature of say 40 degree Celsius, the heater shuts off, but the gasoline temperature still increases up to 70 degree, because the hit plate is still hot. This does not happen with water, I can maintain the desired temperature of water fluctuating up and down just by a degree, but it is a whole different story with gasoline. I believe that this is because gasoline has bad heat transfer properties and the gasoline parts that touch the hot plate instantly get to a boiling point but other gasoline parts remain still cool and heat up only slowly. Then, when the hot plate cools down to the same temperature as the gasoline, the gasoline does not boil anymore even if it is at 80 degree celsius. I guess that for this I need a weaker heater that would heat up slower so that whole gasoline can heat up completely. Or I might just try to drip some drops of gasoline on the hot plate. For this test I poured gasoline in the cylinder so that it is some 4cm above the bottom hot plate, nevertheless, when the gasoline started to boil, the vapors on the output tube started to condense and I got some liquid gasoline poring out from the tube attached to the cylinder output, I think that there was also much gasoline in liquid droplet form in that output. Maybe a stainless steel mesh inside the cylinder could help to reduce this? Anyway, need more experimenting
Thanks,
Jetijs

[dave_cahoon]

Jetijs, Group,

The water shift reaction is a starting point for a study of reactions that happen during biomass and other like wax or diesel, thermal gasification.

Some of the main reactions:
C+O2 -> CO2+Heat;
H2O+C+Heat -> CO+H2;
CO2+C+Heat -> 2CO;
H+H -> H2+Heat;
Plus many others depending on system design.

During gasification what is desired, is the molecules are heated to the point they fall apart and turn into a HOT soup of atoms. The longer the molecule is in the heat, the further it gets broken down. Called residence time.
This I believe is why GEET eats smog and other oxides like NxOy becomes xN+yO The yO is free to play part in reactions later.
Some molecules slip through in most systems.

If you started with Hexadecane, one of the molecules in kerosene.
It is C16H34, after heating, (in a perfect world) results in HOT 16C and 34H The "hot atom soup"
again
The steam, H20 after heating, (iapw) results in HOT 2H and 1Oxygen

IN A PERFECT REACTION:
While the "soup" cools free carbons have a greater affinity with oxygen than zippy hydrogen.
So we need 16 oxygen atoms from water or air, to pare up with the 16 carbons from the Hexadecane.

The end result is synthesis gas 16CO and 17H2 + another 16H2 from the water.

Back to the slipped molecules. It is hoped that none of the C16 would be there, fragments of it may or will.
When the larger molecules start cooling, Hydrogen must be supplied for each side of the crack or as the cracked up gasses cool they will recombine (in the cooler the part I forgot to mention above post) into tangled HCx with carbon bonded to carbon, looping the remaining chain of carbons back onto itself and or others. Molecules of anything C<16 can be created this way BUT with out catalysts, who knows what??? Any advanced organic chemist, I am sure would have a clue.

As long as the molecules are smaller than the C16? molecules than your going in the correct direction, they will burn. Simply broken in half and ends patched with hydrogen. One kerosene molecule becomes two gasoline octane molecules. Already vaporized for use and mixed up with the synthgas...

[alsy]

Lower the vapour pressure/ vapor pressure, and the evaporation also lowers.

Now we are getting somewhere. Thank you for the ideas



I already did this. I did not try to burn the mist, but water and gasoline can be misted together in the same container. It is just that gasoline is less dense than water and it flows above the water. The ultrasonic waves need to penetrate both layers and there is no way to tell which layer is converted to mist more. Therefor I think it would be better to make two ultrasonic chambers, one for gasoline and other for water and then just combine the mist output of them.


If we will have a storage chamber full with gasoline vapor under pressure, we can just remove the carby and inject the vapor directly in the air intake as close to the intake valve as possible. This works fine with hydrogen. All you need then is just to adjust the gas pressure to get the RPMs you need. Higher pressure means more vapors thus more speed. At least this works great on hydrogen, maybe it will work this way also on gasoline vapors. For anyone interested in hydrogen converted vehicles, find a DVD called "Hydrogen car". Lots of great info there

Today I will try to make a gas burner from a small plastic container. It will be filled with gasoline and a small fan will be attached on one side of the container and blowing air into it via a small hole. On the other end of the container, there will be a small outlet hole. I will submerge a high wattage resistor in the gasoline and apply some power to it to heat the gasoline. Will see how it performs.

Thank you guys
Jetijs

Jeti, if it is easy to do, i would like to offer the idea of comparing the use of the fan in the following ways;
- Pushing the vapour through as you have described. Which i figure would be placing pressure on the liquid.
- Pullling the vapor through, which i figure would create a vacuum instead of pressure. To my understanding, to be accurate technically, the vaccum is actually a lower pressure, rather than a true vacuum. The air has a pressure all the time. If the fan is reversed to suck, or pull through, it is not a true vacuum, but lowering pressure in the liquid.

There are what is is called "Vapor Pressure" , or "Vapour Pressure" curves. (Spellling will depend on what part of the world you are from) Looking at a graph, one looks at the pressure to reveal the temperature at which the liquid evaporates.
Under vacuum, (technically lower pressure) the temparature at which a liquid evaporates, is lowered. A higher pressure raises temperature of evaporation, or boiling point. I am not trainined in this field, but have been looking into the area of steam, and vapour pressure over the past several months. If it happens to be the case, I am open to be corrected on incorrect use of the terminology or understanding.

I saw someone in another forum who made holes in a tin can, and used the vacuum from the engine to pull the vapours through. (It was in the OverUnity forrums. From memory, the username of the person was DirtDiggler, or Dirt Diggler) A 2nd person later in the same year of 2008, did something similar as well. I dont recall his user name.

Naturally aspirated engines have what is called "pumping losses" at partialy open throttle. Pumping losses are when the flap that lets the air in, is partly closed, and provides resistance of the air entering the engine. There is resistance to the engine itself because it has to work to pull that air through during the the intake stroke of the engine cycles. Where this resistance is the greatest is when the engine is at idle, and the foot is not on the accelerator pedal.

Perhaps we can turn the pumping loss into a benefit of converting to vapour, and maybe even lower the pumping loss.

If that is doable and it works, it might also get around a problem i have read about high mileage devices. Namely, where the aditives have stuck to, and built up onto the surface of high mileage devices, and i guess blocking them up by doing so. I am not at this time, rememebering clearly if it was for specific high mileage carb designs, or if it was for all of them.
I also remember a long time ago the outdoor camping stores selling miniature stoves. Where the path of the steel fuel line went through the flame before it reached the burner. One had to at some point in time, to clean the fuel line by pulling a lever. The lever pushed through a wire inside the tube, so that when it reached the carbon that had hardened at the area where the tube was heated, the carbon would remove from the area, by pusshing it out of the tube, or that area. In the case of using a vacuum/ lower pressure, i am guessing, is not likely to have any build up/ blocking issue.

[Jetijs]

alsy,
I think that we need pressure rather than vacuum, because vacuum causes gasses to condensate, at least that is true for hho gas.
I just tried to limit the current to my heater to get a slower gasoline heating. This worked good. I found that gasoline starts to boil at about 60 degree Celsius and the greater the temperature, the faster also the pressure builds up. I attached my hho torch to the output of the heater and did get a good flame, unfortunately that flame was not blue, but rather yellow and created black smoke when burning. This indicates that there are small liquid gasoline droplets in the output vapor. When the gasoline heated up to about 65 degree, I could see some liquid gasoline forming inside the tube that goes to the torch, also some liquid gasoline started to drop from the torch tip. That gasoline was cold to touch. Does anybody have an idea how to solve the condensation thing?
Thanks,
Jetijs

[Chris31]

Jet

Why dont you spray the fuel on a hot plate? you only spray enough on the plate so it quickly turn to gas, enough to run the engine. As for the condensation, the parts the vapour is going through must also be hot all the way up to the inlet valve.

This is why I would like to play with direct injection, using a diesel injector. that way the fuel is vapourised inside the engine and there will be no problems with fuel turning back to liquid.

Unfortunately I dont have time to geek at the moment, work commitment need to be sorted out first.

[Chris31]

Hi dave

I just read your other post, excellent work there. Just out of interest what was the results in terms of MPGs increase?

I have seen many attempted to make a fuel vapouriser in various forum but the interest seems to die rather quickly, you get claims like some % increase but the development seems to stops there.

[dave_cahoon]

Chris31, Group,

A carburetor is a fair vaporizer, gasoline vapor is gasoline.
A carburetor does not crackup the molecules.

Make vapors: Most stop here looking for Improvement...
Gasifiy them: Whats that?
Cool them: Simple
Burn them: Fun
Now look for improvement and there will it will be..

MPG increase at least 3x with a slight loss of power,
unless you raise the compression ratio or turbo/super
charge the engine. Then expect increase power and
MPG compared with the original fuel.

Dave

[Chris31]

Hi Dave

Thanks for the reply, you are well ahead in this stuff.

Ill stand back and just read up more about it. Your work is very inspiring.

[dave_cahoon]

Chris31, Jetijs,

Thanks for the flowers Chris31, but the chemistry has been long known,
nothing really new, just not talked about much.

The catalytic converter on cars does the reactions and then burns the results.
Its a backwards way of thinking. Because the reactor is on the wrong side
of the engine. This is not by accident. It was planned this way to sell cars
and fuel. Nothing in the equation for saving anything, those are negatives
from their point of view. and in what once was a free market it sorta worked.

The gaseous fueled Engine is a clean breather.

If you can cool the exhaust then remake "soup" from it,
why cant it go in circles? Enter the increasing Oxygen problem...

Dave

[ashtweth]

Dave , wholly crap man Does Naresh and Ady over at the vortex heat exchanger yahoo grouop know about this dood? I bet they will have all sort of advice and or be able to benefit.
Ps here is the M David link
Translated version of http://quanthomme.free.fr/pantone/PageM_David.htm

Ash

[dave_cahoon]

Hi Ash, Others,

Because the engine sucks in fuel and poofs out exhaust in alternating cycles.
Once the green machine got up to temp it wasted all the gas made during
the expansion of the exhaust and ran on what remained when it did the
vacuum intake. I know this because I was outside with it when i ran it
and i could feel the gasses burn my eyes, But could not smell them!,
then they ultimately fogged my brain.

What was being produced was not gasoline anymore, more like ether and related compounds.

The Carby Throttle valve and Governor worked perfectly.
A different configuration, controlled by the governor will be necessary to
make it run out of fuel on its own, and not let and gasses escape.

Translated version of http://quanthomme.free.fr/pantone/PageM_David.htm

A good Example of home heating oil vaporized by a weed-wip engine carby set on choke.
Then gasified with its own combustion heat and air.

Dave

[dave_cahoon]

Page 8 on the last link

[ashtweth]

Dave pweez pweez come over to the vortex heat exchanger and post this stuff over there as well as here, Ady, Naresh and Mike will be all over this and be able to help from their experiences.

Here a rare scanned pogue carb manual with other designs
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

Ash