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  • Tesla's Black Box, fact or fantasy

    I say it is a fantasy!

    I’ve read and reread the many documents purporting this device but I’m lead to believe the story is entirely made up. Let’s review the facts

    First, the car;

    The first thing that tipped me off that something was out of whack was the anecdote about the exhaust pipe where someone was supposed to have remarked that there “wasn’t any smoke coming from the exhaust.” It was an electric car folks! Electric cars don’t have exhaust pipes. Which brings me to point two.

    If someone DID make that remark then they might have known something about cars to say it. Newer cars of those days didn’t make that much smoke so it must have been an older car they were making fun of. All the documents say the event happened in 1931 and all the documents say it was a Pierce Arrow. Nowhere does it say that it was a 1931 Pierce Arrow. Researching Pierce Arrow one finds that this company made radical changes in their designs from year to year. This can be researched by going to the Pierce Arrow car club and going over their files on the various cars.

    So, if it WAS a current Pierce Arrow and the motor WAS removed by Pierce Arrow, then the gas lines, radiator, hoses and fittings, AND the exhaust pipe would have all been removed.

    Then we come to the matter of the black box in the car. One document says it was mounted in the dash. Not possible! In those days all instrumentation was mounted in the middle of the dash; dials, gauges, and key switch. There wasn’t any room to mount a 24” box in the dash with the dash panel already there.

    Second, the motor;

    The motor was described as an AC electric motor. One document says there were two leads coming from the motor. One document says that the plate on the motor said “30 revolutions per second,” which is 1800 RPM. 1800 RPM is NOT fast enough to drive that car, or any other car, at 90 MPH! (90 MPH is reported in all the documents I read.)

    (On the plus side, however, Pierce Arrow maintained four points for motor mounts for their regular engines to eliminate vibrations.)

    Third, the black box;

    There are several pieces of information concerning the black box itself and the electronics it contained. Several of the reports say that of the twelve tubes Tesla used three of them were 70L7-GT. Researching this particular tube reveals that this tube was not released until 1939 according to the “electron tube registration list.”
    Check it out here; 70L7GT, Tube 70L7GT; Röhre 70L7GT (70L7GT)


    So far as I can tell, no tubes prefixed with a seven were released before 1934. AND, double function tubes and tubes with more than three pins plus the heater pins were released AFTER 1932!

    There is more, much more but I think there is enough here for now. If you are trying to replicate Tesla’s black box then I think you are going to have to design and build it on your own. He never had one, IMO.

    FWIW
    Warren
    ..
    Men had been depending for too long on the authority of the great minds of the past and that they should rely more on their own resources in obtaining knowledge.
    Francis Bacon

  • #2
    comments on observations

    Originally posted by mrbreau View Post
    The first thing that tipped me off that something was out of whack was the anecdote about the exhaust pipe where someone was supposed to have remarked that there “wasn’t any smoke coming from the exhaust.” It was an electric car folks! Electric cars don’t have exhaust pipes. Which brings me to point two.

    If someone DID make that remark then they might have known something about cars to say it. Newer cars of those days didn’t make that much smoke so it must have been an older car they were making fun of. All the documents say the event happened in 1931 and all the documents say it was a Pierce Arrow. Nowhere does it say that it was a 1931 Pierce Arrow. Researching Pierce Arrow one finds that this company made radical changes in their designs from year to year. This can be researched by going to the Pierce Arrow car club and going over their files on the various cars.

    So, if it WAS a current Pierce Arrow and the motor WAS removed by Pierce Arrow, then the gas lines, radiator, hoses and fittings, AND the exhaust pipe would have all been removed.
    Hi Warren,

    I'm not debating your overall point. I like to question things too and would like to ask about a few points.

    If it was a gas car and an electric motor was put into it afterwards, assuming that the exhaust pipe would have been removed would be speculation or opinion. I believe that 'most likely' it would make sense that an exhaust would be removed, I would probably do that, but "should be's" or "could be's" are not requirements or what must have happened.

    An electric motor could perfectly operate a car while the exhaust pipe (post manifold) was still fully intact hanging by whatever attachments are there.

    Additionally, an exhaust pipe could have been intentionally left there to visually conceal the fact that there is an electric engine. It would have been less likely to draw attention, etc... and other possible reasons.

    If it is originally an electric car, then an exhaust pipe could have been fitted to it (least likely possibility in my opinion)...maybe even just 12" at the very end to give the impression it is a regular gas engine....or possibly to show off that the car is so silent or clean, etc...

    Many of us can see a car, truck, etc... and see smoke coming from the vehicle but not necessarily an exhaust. Maybe we're looking at it from the front and see smoke rising from behind the trunk. Many people would assume the exhaust is smoking - even without seeing the exhaust.

    Inversely, it is possible to see a vehicle with no smoke and whether we see the actual exhaust pipe or not, we could easily think, "There is no smoke coming from the exhaust."

    So anytime someone could say, "wasn’t any smoke coming from the exhaust", it doesn't require that someone is actually looking at a tailpipe on a car.

    They could equally have been observing an electric car running, notice that there is no smoke and have said "wasn’t any smoke coming from the exhaust" assuming there was an exhaust pipe - and while not even realizing it was originally an electric car or realizing that it was a gas car converted to electric.

    Just some thoughts on the initial observation of why it could be a scam.
    Last edited by Aaron; 12-04-2008, 09:10 AM.
    Sincerely,
    Aaron Murakami

    Books & Videos https://emediapress.com
    Conference http://energyscienceconference.com
    RPX & MWO http://vril.io

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree Aaron.

      "So, if it WAS a current Pierce Arrow and the motor WAS removed by Pierce Arrow, then the gas lines, radiator, hoses and fittings, AND the exhaust pipe would have all been removed."

      Hearsay, and assumption.

      "One document says it was mounted in the dash. Not possible! In those days all instrumentation was mounted in the middle of the dash; dials, gauges, and key switch. There wasn’t any room to mount a 24” box in the dash with the dash panel already there"

      And another says it sat on the seat next to him....

      "1800 RPM is NOT fast enough to drive that car, or any other car,"

      That is what the transmission is for but I think 90mph is pushing the limits there too. Im not sure the cars of that era were built for that sort of speed anyway, but Im no history buff.

      One should not even attempt to build the black box with just a parts list anyway. It should be obvious that a thorough understanding of natural law is needed before one even contemplates this...

      Bottom line is this. He is perhaps the greatest genius of our time, and is responsible for nearly everything we take for granted today. That in itself deserves maximum respect
      Last edited by ren; 06-11-2009, 07:10 AM.
      "Once you've come to the conclusion that what what you know already is all you need to know, then you have a degree in disinterest." - John Dobson

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      • #4
        Anyway, the interesting part of the story is the tech inside the car. The vacuum tube plasma receiver of radiant energy seems very interesting.

        So to summarize it seems like Tesla was indeed inspired by Mooray during his later years. Hence focus on materials in combination with resonance, producing plasma.

        Comment


        • #5
          Some of the old steam cars could reach some speeds that would rival todays cars (the dodgy ones anyway ), but they could certainly break all the speed limits. His electric motors could have been variable torque, and don't quote me on this, but they were probably more powerful than the average petrol engine of the time. With the correct gearing I think one could have reached a speed of 90mph. Maybe

          Cheers,

          Steve,

          P.S. Ren, I like your avatar. Russells periodic table and the 10 octaves of integrating light. The most accurate IMO.
          Last edited by dambit; 12-04-2008, 11:17 AM.
          You can view my vids here

          http://www.youtube.com/SJohnM81

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          • #6
            Can't see any problems with going @ 90 MPH with only 1800 rpm. Keep in mind that electrical motors can produce far more power at low rotation speed than any of modern internal combustion engines.
            Energy For Free For Everyone! EFFFE!

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            • #7
              I read somewhere that tesla did a demonstration in 1934 of his wireless transmission of power by modifying a car to run from the power he transmitted at a distance. If that is the case, then it is possible that the story is true and the 1931 model was a prototype for the 1934 model that did use the tubes with the reported model number.
              "Theory guides. Experiment decides."

              “I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.”
              Nikola Tesla

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ren View Post
                Bottom line is this. He is perhaps the greatest genius of our time, and is responsible for nearly everything we take for granted today. That in itself deserves maximum respect
                I second that!

                Three Cheers for Tesla!
                "Theory guides. Experiment decides."

                “I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.”
                Nikola Tesla

                Comment


                • #9
                  The question for me is not if he did or didn't produce the experiment...

                  But was the technology dependent on wireless power from his source origin (land based transmitter), or a free standing generation system... wholly contained within the vehicle?

                  Was he probably capable of both/either? Sure.

                  Who are we to doubt the master.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Can't help but wonder, lets just say for argument sake it was so, what would be the benefits of perpetrating such a hoax? What a prank? I can't find motive, but that doesn't really account for much. You cannot rationalize what isn't rational, some people do random things. I Don't think Tesla would of fooled us(IMO). If any maybe the conflicting documents could be misrepresentation, or error or even deliberate ...

                    Ash

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                    • #11
                      i would be betting that it was wireless transmission...the main transmitter was somewhere else....and the circuit in the car was just the receiver....but who really knows....after studying the patents for so long....i believe that is what he has done.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        From what I have read, his nephew was the one who origiinally told the story. Supposedly, he was the one who rode in the seat beside Tesla during this experimental drive in New York. He was not shown the inside of the box and consequently may have speculated at the contents as well as the operation. He does not say how much of Tesla's technology he was familiar with, or at what level his understanding of science was at that time.It's hard to tell how much was added by reporters trying to sell the story or by his nephew, who was trying to make money from the story. The only way to know for sure is to build one and try it.
                        Stealth

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                        • #13
                          I've always found this story quite interesting. I do not doubt that Tesla did it (or that he could), but the details are just a little too specific and misleading.

                          Perhaps a better story would have been "Tesla creates an electric powered automobile which can travel many miles, with no apparent source of energy."

                          That's a story which is believable , and it leaves open to the imagination how it might have worked.

                          Anyways, a quick web search lands the following page:

                          1931 Electric Pierce Arrow | Tesla FAQ No. 16 | Interesting Facts About Nikola Tesla

                          I was not aware that Tesla had two magnifying transmitters located in Canada...

                          Duane
                          Dude, you're curving my space-time.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Stealth View Post
                            From what I have read, his nephew was the one who origiinally told the story.
                            There's one of the problems I have with the story. Since when did Tesla have a nephew?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This is strange, i have not had time to fully check this source out yet

                              Here's what Tesla himself had to say about wireless transmission of power to automobiles in 1922 (http://www.tfcbooks.com/teslafaq/q&a_016.htm):

                              "Question: Will not automobiles, for instance, be operated merely by the operative "cutting in" on electrical energy supplied by wireless from power stations?

                              MR. TESLA : I fear we shall not live to see the wireless system in general use for this purpose. It is difficult to propel an automobile by the new method for reasons with which experts are familiar. "

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