Resonance Effects For Everyone To Share

[gyula]

I used it for my speed control of my window type motor...
it can go up to 100MHz (not my motor, just the NE558)
YouTube - Speed control of the Window type motor

Regards,
Nenad

Hi Nenad,

Thanks for your video link, nice build on your window motor setup.

Now that I use my home computer I managed to see your uploaded schematics on the astabil variable frequency/duty cycle multivibrator (in my office computer I see only a small rectangular icon instead of the schematics picture). And I think it is ok, it should work and be adjustable as you describe, no problem with that, using two timers from the NE558 quad package. Now I am certain that this circuit you show in that scematics can surely be built from either two LMC555CNs or a dual CMOS timer like TLC556Cs. Of course, the normal NE556 dual timer would also be good. However, I am not sure your claim on the 100MHz operation... Suppose you use 100 Ohm and 100pF for R1 and C1, they give 10nsec half period, and if R2 and C2 are also 100 Ohm and 100pF, then the other half period is also 10nsec, this could give a 20nsec total which sounds like 50MHz indeed BUT as far as I know the bipolar IC manufacturing process the NE555-558 timer family was fabricated in the 70s and 80s, they cannot work as fast as that. This is why I wrote I doubted that.

But nevermind, in this push-pull multivibrator circuit possibly even a few MHz operation is surely possible with the CMOS higher speed timer versions, so they would be worth trying.

Do you happen to have an oscilloscope or a frequency meter? I would like to know if you reduce R1, R2, C1 and C2 to small values like some hundred Ohms and some hundred picoFarads, then what frequency can come out from your NE558? The scope would be best to see the waveform of course....

Thanks, Gyula

[Guest]

I don't have a scope... I'm looking to build one

In datasheet of the integrated circuit, the values of the rise time of the output (Tr) and fall time of the output (Tf) are 100ns's. See it for your self...
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...ps/NE558_3.pdf
Also I boughted for 2$ or 3$ or something like that...
Another problem I have is I can not find a high frequency mosfet, yet powerful...

[gyula]

I don't have a scope... I'm looking to build one

In datasheet of the integrated circuit, the values of the rise time of the output (Tr) and fall time of the output (Tf) are 100ns's. See it for your self...
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...ps/NE558_3.pdf
Also I boughted for 2$ or 3$ or something like that...
Another problem I have is I can not find a high frequency mosfet, yet powerful...

Hi Nenad,

I have seen the data sheet of the NE558 already and yes I saw the 100ns rise and fall time of the output. The problem is if you considered 100ns corresponds to 100MHz, then I assure you it does not... it would be 10MHz, (1/100ns=10MHz) but normally for rise and fall times you have to add the two to get any speed info and even so it would be a theoretic value because you have to assume some pulse time (on and off) in addition, ok?

If you have a look at the data sheet of the NE555, you can see the same 100ns rise and fall times and max frequency is specified as 500kHz for the Philips type: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data..._SE555_C_2.pdf

Nevertheless, I still think a dual CMOS timer (TLC556C) operated in the same manner as the NE558 as you show in the schematics could work in the same way with their speed benefit too.

Regarding your building a scope, have you considered buying a cheaper PC scope? You surely have seen this thread here: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...illoscope.html

Thanks, Gyula

[Guest]

You are absolutely right ... Sorry I miscalculated...

Did you saw my other video
YouTube - Extracting Radiant Energy from the Window type motor
where I extracted radiant energy from the window type motor and lighted a LED with one wire... Also put the LED in water... Other wire was connected to me or my brother or placed in water. Because of the rotating magnet in the coil, the frequency dose not have to be so high for this effect.

Do you have any advice for building a oscilloscope... Some circuit or point me to some location on the web where I can find one....

rgds, Nenad

[gyula]

You are absolutely right ... Sorry I miscalculated...

Did you saw my other video
YouTube - Extracting Radiant Energy from the Window type motor
where I extracted radiant energy from the window type motor and lighted a LED with one wire... Also put the LED in water... Other wire was connected to me or my brother or placed in water. Because of the rotating magnet in the coil, the frequency dose not have to be so high for this effect.

Do you have any advice for building a oscilloscope... Some circuit or point me to some location on the web where I can find one....

rgds, Nenad

Hello Nenad,

Yes I have seen your other video too and it is interesting to play with such things and grasp further insite into energy capture etc.

Well, on building an oscilloscope, you need components and experience. The most important is the scope tube itself, what type do you happen to have?

If you do not have, you may obtain relatively cheaply via ebay, here are some links:
MULLARD DG7-32 /01 oscillosope CRT tubes - eBay (item 400064681946 end time Aug-28-09 15:31:01 PDT)

DG7-32 Marantz 10B Scope Tube Tungsram (10 avail) - eBay (item 380130081436 end time Aug-08-09 03:50:23 PDT)

The best would be to look for local amateur radio flea-markets where maybe such valves could be had.
Some links:
Ultra-Simple Oscilloscope
Oscilloscope Block Diagram and Schematics

OF course in case you wish to build a digital scope then you need a LCD display. Here are links for digital scopes:
Soudez! Zigbee forum - Digital oscilloscope (DSO) this page needs Firefox web browser or recent MS Explorer.

Another: Autocostruzione di un oscilloscopio

A simple one based a normal television set as the main display:
Electronic Project Schematics - Tele-Scope | oscilloscope on your TV and the PCB drawings are here: Electronic Project Schematics - Tele-Scope | oscilloscope on your TV

Good luck!

Gyula

[milosman]

Hey Luc, I spent two days digging thru all my electronic salvage I have been collecting since flat tv's hit te market, and I found what I thought I had! It is an old AM/FM tunner "Vcap" was wondering if you might be able to tell me how to hook it up in place of a cap or in series or parallel on future projects.
This is a true GEM piece and I don't wanna ruin it,,,know what i mean?

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

it's been a while since I posted new information to the Resonance topic.

I find it useful to switch from one project to another from time to time to get new ideas going again.

I've made a new video since I was doing a basic test and found that when I lower the amplitude to the output of my signal generator I seem to get a better efficiency ???

I don't understand why this happens but maybe someone with more knowledge can try to explain it.

The video contains all the details I think. So have a look and tell me why the same output of my SG can be boosted by using a resonating coil.

Video updated see this post: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post65925

Thanks for your time

Luc

[rave154]

hmmmmm

lovely clean setup & descriptions as usual GOTO

can you explain how you know/ or got the coil/s in resonance?

of course.....now im thinking.......hmmm....what if we fed the BEMF back into the main coil with a single diode??????

[witsend]

Gosh Luc, Your video clarity has got to be one of the best on youtube. I'm stuck again. I need a schematic. Could you oblige? I just don't have the mental dexterity to see the circuit.

[Joit]

Hi,
well its actually the transforming Effect, like,
you plug in a Lead at a higher place into a Pot.
How much higher you have the Voltage/plug, how much higher the Cap will load.
Only the Time, what it needs to get loaded is longer, but it can reach a higher amount as the Source that way.
Just, when you take the Energie out, it takes a unproportional long Time,
to load it again to the same Stage for a normal Circuit when it discharges,
where it usual support and buffer a certain Voltage.
You could maybe try, to set the output from the SG to 20mA,
or what the led do need to light up, or lower, and see what happens.

And you can see, that the Voltage stays at 1,8V, what is maybe the middle
of your Signalgenerator supporting Watts output and the transforming up,
but the Led dont need a lot of Watts anyway.
But still interesting indeed

[gyula]

Hi everyone,

....
I don't understand why this happens...
...

Hi Luc,

You have built a series resonant circuit with the 63.5mH coil and the 0.0023uF capacitor for the 13kHz frequency that comes from your SG.

This means that the highest current can flow through the coil and the cap, its value is limited only by the coil's 8.3 Ohm copper resistance and the SG output impedance, probably 50 Ohm (?) so alltogether you have a voltage source providing 1.3V RMS and you load this voltage source by the 50 Ohm + 8.3 Ohm=58.3 Ohm when you are at the resonant frequency.

(In fact you load it only by the 8.3 Ohm when at resonance but to consider the actual value of the loading current coming out from the SG, you have to consider the SG output impedance too which is supposed to be a pure resistor of 50 Ohm and is in series with the LC circuit.)

It is also known that in series resonant circuits the reactive voltages across the coil or the capacitor is the Q times of the input voltage (i.e. the 1.3V in your case). The loaded Q or quality factor of your series resonant circuit is XL/R where XL is the reactive impedance of the 63.5mH coil at 13kHz and R is the 58.3 Ohm (described above). This gives a loaded Q of 88.9 (2*Pi*13*63.5)/58.3=88.9 let's round it to 89, ok.

So the reactive voltage across the 63.5mH coil (or across the 2.3nF capacitor) is 89 times the 1.3V i.e. 115.7V this could be measured by a scope or a voltmeter suitable for 13kHz AC measurements.

So there is a pretty big electromagnetic energy near and around your 63.5mH coil and you couple or immerse your 78mH pick-up coil into this field, actually you transform the 115.7V reactive voltage down to a smaller voltage (the loaded voltage --after the diode bridge-- of around 1.8V what the green LED dictates).
Of course the output voltage from the pick-up coil depends on the turns ratio of the 63.5mH and the 78mH coils and on the coupling factor between the two (just like in case of normal transformers).

I hope I answered your question.

rgds, Gyula

[gotoluc]

Hi Gyula,

that is quite the detailed explanation

You're obviously knowledgeable in the art.

I placed my scope probe across the resonating primary coil with secondary unloaded and measure only 65v PP and 22v RMS at peak tuning. Can you let me know why you're coming up with 115 volts or so. Also just for fun, I probed the secondary coil (unloaded also) and it measures 27.5v PP and 9.5v RMS.

Thanks for sharing.

Luc

[gotoluc]

hmmmmm

lovely clean setup & descriptions as usual GOTO

can you explain how you know/ or got the coil/s in resonance?

of course.....now im thinking.......hmmm....what if we fed the BEMF back into the main coil with a single diode??????

Hi rave154,

the way to get a coil in resonance from what I know and understand is available in a 4 video tutorial set. Here is a link to tutorial no.1: YouTube - Coil Resonance Tutorial 1

Using a unidirectional flyback (BEMF) of a coil (from what I know) will not bring another coil into resonance because you need inverted polarities at every pulse which is true AC for resonance to manifest itself. Also, a PWM will not make inverted polarities at every pulse. It is only chopping DC. The only way I know to get a coil in resonance is using a Signal Generator output or using an H-Bridge circuit that creates true square wave AC.

To anyone more knowledgeable then me:
if you know of a method to create sine wave or square wave that is simpler then what I have used or described above please share your Knowledge and feel free to correct my understanding as I wish to learn more.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[gyula]

I placed my scope probe across the resonating primary coil with secondary unloaded and measure only 65v PP and 22v RMS at peak tuning. Can you let me know why you're coming up with 115 volts or so. Also just for fun, I probed the secondary coil (unloaded also) and it measures 27.5v PP and 9.5v RMS.

Hi Luc,

Thanks.

I assume you used the same setup for measuring the reactive voltage across the primary coil what you used in your video at 7:37 i.e. both coil ends were "hot", meaning you could really use only a ground-independent scope.

Because the moment you connect the ground clip or "negative" clip of your scope probe to any of the "hot" points of the coil, the measured value will probably different from the truth.

To check this, and assuming you still use the same setup where your 2.3nF capacitor's right-hand side end is still connected to the black clip of the SG, please connect the scope probe ground (i.e. negative) clip also to the black SG clip point and the 'hot' scope probe tip to the common point of the primary coil and the 2.3nF capacitor, ok?

To put it simply, measure across the 2.3nF capacitor with the scope by using the common ground (i.e. the negative) points of the scope and that of your SG, ok?

I calculated the 115V from your data shown in the video as I explained in the earlier post, and I hope your measurement across the capacitor will be much closer to this value... it all depends on the loaded Q value of the coil at resonance (I assume the 2.3nF capacitor is of good quality and does not degrade the resultant loaded Q of the resonant circuit.)

rgds, Gyula

[poynt99]

To anyone more knowledgeable then me:
if you know of a method to create sine wave or square wave that is simpler then what I have used or described above please share your Knowledge and feel free to correct my understanding as I wish to learn more.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

I am still in development of my version of the ultimate "resonator" circuit.

You've asked for some tough specs, so it is not so easy. The basic concept is well developed already, but getting the frequency (won't be as difficult) and high voltage of 10kV (more difficult) is posing to be a challenge.

So far I have a nice circuit that will give about 1MHz frequency and 1500V.

btw, Pulsing is the most efficient way to bring a LC tank into resonance.

.99