Resonance Effects For Everyone To Share

[sucahyo]

He said that u cant just swap the batteries from the back to the front. you are dealing with 2 different electricities. He said they'll be fine at running bulbs, but hook em up to a motor, and nothing.

I need to correct previous comment. Swapping battery do work for joule thief charger. I can light a bulb, run a fan, and electrolizing. The different thing is transistor use PNP now and the recovery diode direction is reversed.

[amigo]

Amigo,

The moment you see the destination battery voltage drop after being on the charger for a while, that is when it needs to be drained through a resistive load down to whatever voltage you want to bring it to in order to start recharging it again.

The DIP in the destination voltage is the signature of the battery telling you it is done. Keeping it on the charger after that is counter productive.

You may see the dip in voltage happening at higher and higher voltages over the conditioning process.

Anyway, that is exactly what the dip indicates.

Thanks Aaron, I did not know that.

Although this means I will have to stop this experiment...hmm. I' guess I'll just drain quickly...

[amigo]

@Amigo--- These JT circuits are supposed to keep running even below .5v. That means that your's and mine should run for quite awhile longer. With you not swapping the batteries and me doing it, we should compare notes when this is all over. I'm surprised that your charge battery is not charging up. On my system it does but it could be because of circuit component differences and settings between the two setups. I also looked at the charge aspect on the scope and did cap charge tests before I started the experiment. Lets stay in touch on this thing. I'll let you know as soon as mine stops.

Lidmotor

In line with what Aaron said, I have plateaued the destination battery and that is why it's not charging anymore.

Your setup has a switch to toggle between the two batteries and so one is always being drained and the other being charged so the dip in the battery voltage does not occur.

I'm interested in the relationship between the operating frequency and the available current through the LED, as it affects the charging process.

My second setup (slightly different circuit, same principle) has the lower frequency and higher current after the LED. In the fist 24 hrs the destination battery charged faster but the source also drained faster. As with my first setup I am not switching the batteries, but now that I know to watch for the dip and then do something about it...

[Lidmotor]

Resonating the thief

@Amigo, Aaron, Luc, and others--- This thread is about resonant effects and after watching my JT circuits run for many days, this must be what is taking place right infront of my eyes. I tuned my two experiments to a point where the LEDs would be on, the amp draw was under 20ma, and the system would still fill up a cap on the back end. I then replace the back end cap with a battery and let her rip. The first one just past 7 days of non-stop light. Every morning I take voltage reading and swap the batteries. This morning (the 7th day) the source was at 1.14v and the charge was at 1.25v. On this first setup, both batteries started at 1.35v a week ago. Unfortunately my scope does not read out the frequency in plain English and I have not studied the manual enough to be able to read the squiggly lines that show up. Using my little radio I know that it is high frequency but how high? This is kinda blind trial and error experimentation.
After reading Aaron's comments about the charge battery peaking and then dipping down, I ran some tests yesterday on a third circuit using just supercaps on the front and back end. It DID NOT perform like I expected. Unlike the batteries that are designed to hold a certain voltage as they discharge, the dropping cap voltage gave very short run times (minutes). I think that this may have to do with the lack of resonance? The charge cap charged but the performance was not like when a constant source voltage was used. Somewhere there is a sweet spot like on Bedini SSG between what you are paying (source energy) , what you are getting (light), and the rebate check (charge energy).
Anybody have any ideas? Based on the experiment I did yesterday with the caps, the circuit that I am using will still turn on the LED dimly down past .5 volts. Soooo I may stop my 1st experiment when the light level goes down past the point it is usable---maybe at day 9 or 10.

Lidmotor

[Inquorate]

Capacitors

@ Lidmotor - have you thought about using super capacitors? They are only 2.5v but store 55 Farads

Jaycar Electronics

[ren]

Lid you must also understand that there is another factor in these resonating circuits......the battery! It is integral, and it resonates along with the circuit. Changing it is like changing other parameters of the circuit. Even just changing from one type to another may show differences.

[Lidmotor]

Resonating the JT

@Ren
Thanks for the tip on the battery aspect. I never thought about that as being part of the resonance but it is. The whole circuit with EVERY component must be considered. It reminds me of a "tuner car" where they look at all the little pieces and tweek em. The net result is that the car perfoms better. What we would get here is more light for less energy.

@ Inquorate
I have the supercaps and I worked with them again today. Like Ren said though, the resonance aspect needs to be considered and when the cap discharges the voltage drops constantly. Not a good thing for resonance. Maybe a voltage regulator could be used. These NiMH batteries I'm trying out are pretty impressive and hard to beat.

Lidmotor

[gotoluc]

@Amigo, Aaron, Luc, and others--- This thread is about resonant effects and after watching my JT circuits run for many days, this must be what is taking place right infront of my eyes. I tuned my two experiments to a point where the LEDs would be on, the amp draw was under 20ma, and the system would still fill up a cap on the back end. I then replace the back end cap with a battery and let her rip. The first one just past 7 days of non-stop light. Every morning I take voltage reading and swap the batteries. This morning (the 7th day) the source was at 1.14v and the charge was at 1.25v. On this first setup, both batteries started at 1.35v a week ago. Unfortunately my scope does not read out the frequency in plain English and I have not studied the manual enough to be able to read the squiggly lines that show up. Using my little radio I know that it is high frequency but how high? This is kinda blind trial and error experimentation.
After reading Aaron's comments about the charge battery peaking and then dipping down, I ran some tests yesterday on a third circuit using just supercaps on the front and back end. It DID NOT perform like I expected. Unlike the batteries that are designed to hold a certain voltage as they discharge, the dropping cap voltage gave very short run times (minutes). I think that this may have to do with the lack of resonance? The charge cap charged but the performance was not like when a constant source voltage was used. Somewhere there is a sweet spot like on Bedini SSG between what you are paying (source energy) , what you are getting (light), and the rebate check (charge energy).
Anybody have any ideas? Based on the experiment I did yesterday with the caps, the circuit that I am using will still turn on the LED dimly down past .5 volts. Soooo I may stop my 1st experiment when the light level goes down past the point it is usable---maybe at day 9 or 10.

Lidmotor

Hi Lidmotor,

excellent post

I wish Allcanadian would see your post since for a long time he has been talking about the battery as being part of a true resonating circuit. I think that this is what could be going on in the Tesla switch.

I'll send a PM to Allcanadian and see if he would like to post any comments about this.

Keep studying the effect and see if you can build an exact duplicate but maybe the coil could have 2 or 3 extra turns and see how it performs and if it is worse then take turns off one at a time and retest and take notes till you find the best performance.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[Allcanadian]

@Gotoluc
I could say many things but proof speaks louder than words, place a small incadescent bulb in series with the battery, next to the battery. Place your oscilloscope probes across the bulb and send a high potential inductive discharge into the battery through the bulb. If there is sufficient self-inductance in the circuit you will measure an alternating current across the bulb at the resonant frequency of (L)inductance and (C)the capacitance of the battery, an LC circuit.
Regards
AC

[amigo]

My original experiment ended today. The LED has been dimming all day and now it appears all extinguished as the source buttery fell below 0.5V.

If I unplug it and let it rest for a few moments, battery will recover above 0.5V but once plugged back in, it will drain back to below 0.5V where the LED remains off.

So it's been a few days (about 4.5) of it working without switching. I did not end up discharging the destination battery as Aaron suggested since I wanted to finish this experiment first. Then I'll contemplate options of adding a load to the destination, or switching it with the source.

My other experiment is still running, with a slightly modified version of the circuit, though it's been couple of days since it begun.

[gotoluc]

@Gotoluc
I could say many things but proof speaks louder than words, place a small incadescent bulb in series with the battery, next to the battery. Place your oscilloscope probes across the bulb and send a high potential inductive discharge into the battery through the bulb. If there is sufficient self-inductance in the circuit you will measure an alternating current across the bulb at the resonant frequency of (L)inductance and (C)the capacitance of the battery, an LC circuit.
Regards
AC

Thanks AC for dropping in and posting your message and experiment recommendation.

Please let me recap the experiment starting from + (pos) side of battery.

So one leg of bulb to +, other leg of bulb to one leg of inductor (coil) and other leg of inductor to momentarily touch - (neg) side of battery and have scope probe across the bulb to observe the activity on Oscilloscope.

Did I understand correctly?

Thanks

Luc

[gotoluc]

@everyone,

I have been quiet for some days but don't think I'm not continuing the Resonance tests!... I even dream of it when I sleep

Two days ago I discovered something new (to me anyways) to which I will share a circuit very soon.

I am able to get my coils resonating using only one wire as an input pulse!... no return and no ground!... how's that for efficiency

I am not claiming overunity but things are getting really efficient

Stay tuned

Luc

[Jetijs]

Thanks for the update Luc
I was already wondering about why there are no news from you

[Lidmotor]

8 Days And Counting

@ Everyone

My first JT past 8 days this morning and the second one past 5. The voltage on the first one was 1.14 volts on the source bat and 1.24 volts on the charge when I swapped them this morning. It would be nice to get 2 more days out of it.

@Amigo-- 4.5 days is a pretty good run time considering that you didn't swap the batteries. The way I see it is, if you now take that battery that was left on the charge side and put it up front you should get another 4.5 days.

@ Gotoluc--- I can't wait to see your one wire resonator. I played around with the scope today and made a video of what is happening on my table.

YouTube - Resonating Joule Thief

Lidmotor

[gotoluc]

@ Everyone

My first JT past 8 days this morning and the second one past 5. The voltage on the first one was 1.14 volts on the source bat and 1.24 volts on the charge when I swapped them this morning. It would be nice to get 2 more days out of it.

@Amigo-- 4.5 days is a pretty good run time considering that you didn't swap the batteries. The way I see it is, if you now take that battery that was left on the charge side and put it up front you should get another 4.5 days.

@ Gotoluc--- I can't wait to see your one wire resonator. I played around with the scope today and made a video of what is happening on my table.

YouTube - Resonating Joule Thief

Lidmotor

Hi Lidmotor,

great new video

from my most of all of my tests to date once the coil is at resonance the wave changes to pure sign wave, so I think when you see the clean sign wave it is resonating at that point!... however I'm no expert.

You may want to make a new coil with more turns and see if once at sign wave if the LED puts out more light then you know you need more turns... or do the opposite!... take off turns if the light is less but you need to re-tune to clean sigh wave every time you make a change. If more or less turns don't change LED light output at resonance, then insert a 47pf capacitor in series on coil side or you can even try it on the base side. Capacitance will change many characteristics of a resonating coil. So you need to test different capacitance values to find peak power out for less amp draw. The best would be a variable air capacitor from an old radio. They can vary the capacitance value starting at about 10pf to 400pf. You can find then on eBay if you can't get one locally.

Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing.

Luc