Flunn paralell path!!!

[sciencisto]

>> So have you any ideas on how to recover the energy directly to the input?
*
I am trying different ways. One thing is for sure, based on my experience, that impedances of the source and the load must be fine tuned so that they match.

>> Maybe this circuit of my attraction motor will help:
*
I did try it before and it works well. Still the same apply, impedance matching. And, still there will be some not recovered energy in the winding, so diodes can be used.

Thanks.

And, btw, my request to you to lend me your PPMM is stlll valid

[Jetijs]

And, btw, my request to you to lend me your PPMM is stlll valid

Hi
I will get back to you about this next week. It might happen that I will have to build a 6pole parallel path motor (similar to yours) shortly, I will know that by the end of next week and then I will be able to tell you if I can lend my motor to you or will I need it for further tests myself.

[sciencisto]

co-operation

Jetijs,
I understand. Since we live not far from each other, just a few hundred kilometers, when we get to some point we can decide to co-operate closer.
my email is scianto @ gazeta . pl

[Jetijs]

Hi sciencisto, I would very much like to cooperate
BTW, in your video where you had ceramic magnets in your motor and you recycled 27w of energy back into the heater, what RPM's was the motor on and did it have any decent torque?

[sciencisto]

it had torque

Jetijs
It was turning 5 to 6 hundred rpm. It did have a torque, of course, but I didn't measure it. In other tests when the speed and optical sensor position were similar and the motor was loaded with an alternator, the alternator gave out a few watts. But, in fact it is difficult to compare, because any change in the load of the alternator or any other change in the entire setup, will affect all other parameters.

[sciencisto]

new circuit

I am testing now a new circuit. The schematic is here:
http://servilo.website.pl/laboratori...anie_rys30.png
You can see that in this circuit almost all energy from the input power is used for the motor coils and there is almost no need to recover the inductive spike. There is some similarity with H bridge.
Jetijs, would you like to try it too?

I think this should also work well with other pulse motors, for example, with SRM, but the timing would be much more critical.
Also, I am sure, it will work with one phase inductive motors, both without or with capacitor.

Or course, the circuit is nothing new, an old and well working solution used in electronics.

[sciencisto]

re: new circuit

I updated the circuit with two resistors and a capacitor. They protect the IC
against voltage spikes. Without them the circuit stops working above ~ 25 V, and
I need it to be working to 320V DC.
http://servilo.website.pl/laboratori...ie_rys30-2.png

Yesterday, even with the added protection, the IC got burned inside. I saw on
oscilloscope, that was connected between the ground and IC pin 6, high spikes
appearing when I load the motor. The voltage in was 68 V. So, even this
protection is not enough.

Any suggestions?

[Jetijs]

Hi sciencisto
Thanks for the circuit, looks very simple and easy compared to your previous circuits. I would try it, but no stores near me have that particular IC. Anyway, looking at your present circuit and the datasheet of the IC, it looks like pin6 Vs should not exceed 600V, so if any of those spikes gets bigger than thatm it should blow out the IC. To solve this I would recommend to use a transil diode between the pin6 and ground that will ground any spikes higher than 600V, I can't find any transil diodes with 600v rating, but you can use one at 400V and another of 200v in series. For example 1.5KE400CA and 1.5KE200CA in series will give you overvoltage protection above 600v. These are high power diodes and can deal with pulse powers up to 1.5kW.
I am not an expert in this area, but I think this should fix that problem. But if there are spikes so big, there should be much energy in them that would better be captured and reused
Hope this helps.
Jetijs

[gyula]

Hi sciencisto,

I also think what Jetijs suggests can be a solution but:

I have found an old application note on high voltage floating MOSFET gate drivers AN-978 and maybe studying its pages from Page 9 to about Page 15 may give further thoughts. The big enemy seems to be stray inductances and less than optimum layout of components. (Fig. 8 in page 13 shows a waveform for the Vs pin but read the text info too.)

However, if you study Figure 26 in page 24, it seems to accomplish just what Jetijs mentioned: utilizes energy in the possible spikes that may appear at the Vs line, see the additional components (Q1, Q2, D1, D2, C=0.47uF only).
I know the circuit is for the IR2110 HV driver IC and you use the 2109 type but I do not think it makes much difference in this respect.

Here is is link to the AN-978:
International Rectifier - Application Notes

Gyula

[sciencisto]

update -3

Jetijs, gyulo -- thanks friends for your suggestions. I am happy you are here helping me with valuable info.
In the meantime I tired some tricks and did make it all work as it should. I know it is not perfect but on the osc. trace I can see now nice rectangle without spikes. Here is the present circuit, version -3, the most stable now:
http://servilo.website.pl/laboratori...ie_rys30-3.png
As you can see I removed C9 and inserted R5.
I also noticed that right placement of the components and low resistance main paths are a must. We will see what happens at higher voltages and loads.

[sciencisto]

PPMM on unidirectional impulses

Here is and example of how parallel path magnet motor can be run on unidirectional impulses. I never before saw it functioning like that, because normally it has to be powered by impulses of alternating direction.
Here is my new toy.
YouTube - scienculo's Channel

[sciencisto]

PPMM as motor and generator powering itself

This example shows, as far as I understand the oscilloscope traces, that parallel path magnet motor can be run and function very well, when it is powered with only unidirectional impulses. So, no transistor H bridge or other circuit producing alternating direction current impulses are needed, as I have thought till now.

YouTube - SRSM1_1 zasilanie impulsami jednokierunkowymi / PPMM powered with unidirectional impulses

In this example you can see, that 50% of the cycle the motor winding are pulsed and the other 50% of the cycle they generate current. What is most important here is, that the generating current is powering the motor, so it created the other 50% of the cycle running the motor.

Theoretically it means that half of the power is needed to run the motor compared with circuits running it with alternating current impulses.

Note it down and use it with other motors. Now we know that DC motors, pulse motors and even 3 phase induction motors can be run using this kind of powering.

Now you can call it tuning and saving as much as possible but still run motors at that give same amount of power on shaft.

[sciencisto]

PPMM and bicycle

Looks like nobody is interested any more in this topic.
Any way, just to update you with my progress.
Practical implementation.
Here is an example of a small parallel path magnet motor turning a bicycle wheel, that I did yesterday.
YouTube - SRSM1_rower1

[zhorv324]

Looks like nobody is interested any more in this topic.
Any way, just to update you with my progress.
Practical implementation.
Here is an example of a small parallel path magnet motor turning a bicycle wheel, that I did yesterday.
YouTube - SRSM1_rower1

Nice job , and I really wont to see your motor under load .Pleas post result, and make another nice you tube video. I don t give up, but no money for next version of motor(axial flux ).

[Jetijs]

Looks like nobody is interested any more in this topic.
Any way, just to update you with my progress.
Practical implementation.
Here is an example of a small parallel path magnet motor turning a bicycle wheel, that I did yesterday.
YouTube - SRSM1_rower1

Hi sciencisto
Great work as usual. The interest is still there, it is just that I am lazy like hell, that is why I post rarely, but I follow all your activities with interest As for me, I had a friend over and we took some measurements on the parallel path solid state device and the force that is needed to pull one of the end pieces off. The measured results are somewhat different to those on peswiki.
Have a look:
http://www.emuprim.lv/jetijs/plog-co...ultats-1-1.jpg
the upper results are from the peswiki site and the lower ones are our measurements. In our setup the armature was made of silicon steel and with 1"x1" square area on each of the four blocks. Magnets used were 1" long and 1" diameter neo magnets.