Splitting The Positives

[DavidE]

ABCStore

What about it is dynamic?

Access is uniformly available,
regardless of vector (location)?

Aether would seem to be a constant,
with unlimited potential (dynamic properties).

Dynamic is a moving target.
Static is a constant, available by X means.

Availability of existence potential would seem to be pervasive.
Part of everything, even to be present in nothing.
Which would make nothing, something.

Similar to the word random. Random equals
something simply beyond the means of observing
an organization pattern. The only found truth is the word.

Its kind of like this thread, beyond. Splitting the positive is a pattern that will produce fruit. Its all a matter of means, and how much is enough.

[Inquorate]

Dynamic

Dynamic, except at earth, where voltage polarity of sky guides stream direction to earth and it comes up against a brick wall of electrons. However this may differ locally, it is why the nicholson-morely experiment detected that the earth was not moving through aether. Not that it wasn't there but it wasn't moving relative to earth.

[What The Flux]

After additional test...

The little coil in the Imhotep relay works fine as the coil. Just connect each side tab to one positive battery terminal.

It doesn't seem to matter which battery is where, they both charge.

If either battery is fully charged, the other seems to charge at a faster rate... but does NOT diminish the fully charged battery. I believe the earth ground to be important.

The highest charge I have seen on a battery in this configuration is 15.5v with a 12v 5Ah lead acid battery.

I still don't get it. It is tooooooo stupid simple.

Not to imply that you don't have something profound there, but I think a load test is the only thing that would be conclusive.

In my limited experience in pulse-charging batteries (Bedini etc), I have found that battery voltage is not a good measure of it's ability to deliver charge or energy.

I found that a weak signal Bedini type motor brought the voltage on my battery up well over 12V, but when I tried to power a circuit with it, it performed poorly.
I could only speculate on the chemistry behind this, but finding out how many joules are generated (if any) would seem to be key.

If it's just a rearrangement of ions or something, that would explain why it does not charge a capacitor.

But I wish you the best, and above all hope you find an OU phenomenon there.

[Aaron]

Splitting the Positive

Gray's original usage of splitting the positive was:

1. A small portion of the HV potential went backwards through the diode and gave a little charge to the battery.

2. The rest of the HV potential (almost all of it) split towards another path, to grids, through load and then back to the battery.

That splitting was literally taking a single HV potential and sending it on a forked road.

The splitting the positive that Bedini had showed originally was 3v battery and 1.5v battery lighting the light because the polarities are irrelevant, just potential differences is what is needed to light the bulb. That is similar to David's diagram that started this thread.

Part of the higher potential battery is able to charge a lower potential battery and charge a coil as a load. That is a higher potential doing 2 things but on the same singular path.

So with the above two examples, literally, the first example like in the tube is splitting a positive and the second is not.

But with another example...if there is 3.0 volts and 1.5 volt positive connected by common ground, then you split the positive difference. 3.0 - 1.5 = 1.5v difference. That 'could' be a meaning made up for splitting the positive but is that what Gray originally meant by splitting the positive? This is a totally different meaning than taking a + voltage potential and sending on it on a forked road with a common ground. But, literally is still splitting the positive.

I think it is clear that splitting the positive 'could' have two different meanings.

The forked road way encompasses both meanings. It is forked (splitting) AND is also using a potential difference to move the higher potential difference to a lower one for charging the batt, otherwise, it couldn't flow that way.

The singular path method, like David's schematic. Or, with Bedini's with the bulb instead of a coil, that only contains one meaning of splitting the positive.

I'm just mentioning all of this because I think it is important to define what splitting the positive is, what it could mean and what are the distinctions between the different ways that a positive could be split.

Ed Gray told his son this word for word: "The energy starts from the positive terminal [of the storage battery/dipole] then part of it goes back to the supply battery and part of it goes to the load."

I believe from that statement that (part of it goes here and part of it goes there) - that is absolutely implying a forking effect and not inline - especially the way the tube operates.

So, I think the term: Splitting the Positive relates to the fork method.

With the inline (single path) method of taking the potential difference from 2 positives with a common ground, I believe this should specifically be referred to as: Simplified Splitting the Positive or Single Path Splitting the Positive or Inline Splitting the Positive - or something like that, simply to make a distinction because they are different.

Anyway, just a long-winded thought in the moment.

[What The Flux]

@Aaron,
That's a very good analysis. I've been pondering those aspects for a while as well. Initially it seemed to me that Gray meant two positives with a differential on both sides of the spark gap.

But could a +12V potential really make a difference if it's relative to a 3000V HV node, I mean as opposed to the low voltage side being simply grounded?? That doesn't make sense, at least in conventional electronics. But so much of this is unconventional.

I hope to find out, with the help of the great work you are doing in the Water Spark plug thread. I fond that thread very relevant to the Gray tube. Unfortunately, I am only through about 30 pages of that thread, and I don't want to ask redundant questions as I build my setup. Plus I'm waiting for some new parts.

[Chip Shorter]

One time I was doing an experiment and noticed my voltage was creeping upwards real fast. I tried the experiment again at work the next day and it did not creep up in voltage like that. Long story short- my oscillioscope was creating a ground loop and was charging my cap. I had one of those two prong outlets and had the scope plugged into an adaptor and was floating my ground.

[Aaron]

purpose of low voltage positive in Gray Tube

Initially it seemed to me that Gray meant two positives with a differential on both sides of the spark gap.

But could a +12V potential really make a difference if it's relative to a 3000V HV node, I mean as opposed to the low voltage side being simply grounded?? That doesn't make sense, at least in conventional electronics. But so much of this is unconventional.

I hope to find out, with the help of the great work you are doing in the Water Spark plug thread. I fond that thread very relevant to the Gray tube. Unfortunately, I am only through about 30 pages of that thread, and I don't want to ask redundant questions as I build my setup. Plus I'm waiting for some new parts.

Yes, the differential on both rods is necessary to have a lower potential simply for the HV to move to the LV rod.

Bedini said it was like 1000 at HV and if 10 at LV, then that is a 990v difference that is going to the rod. I think it is more than just that because when jumping into a diode and having it close on the HV, it causes the HV cap to discharge faster further increasing the energy.

The LV cannot be grounded because it would be a negative. Meaning, a diode on the LV side with the cathode towards the gap, the diode is permanately closed meaning the HV can never see a path to ground that way.

With + voltage there on the annode, even just 12v, there will also be 12v measurable on the cathode, meaning it is open. The HV sitting there will then see a path to ground at that diode. When the commutator connects, that 12v is there on the diode, the diode is open, it is a lower potential for the HV to jump to and finds way to ground. As soon as it jumps...that is what the diode is there for is to trick the HV to going there then the diode will have HV on that cathode which is higher than the 12v on the annode, that diode slams shut real fast...then where does all that HV potential go? To the rods. That is why it must be a low voltage positive touching that diode on the HV rod to keep that diode open as a path to ground that the HV can see.

I put all this in the thread I started Gray Tube Replication and don't want to take over this thread on the Gray Tube concept. Just wanted to point out the distinction involved with the concept of splitting the positive. But the above what what I deduced on the Gray Tube for years and verified it experimentally.

[Aaron]

diode example and voltage

(-)12VDC(+)--->====12V 4000V========--------||--(-)
Diode open with 12v 4000v here
both grounds on both side are common
When commutator connects diode, 4000v sees path to ground
When 4000v jumps to the least resistance path to ground (lv rod),
the voltage on cathode becomes higher than annode and it slams shut

(-)--->====0V 4000V========--------||--(-)
diode closed-no continuity 4000v here
When commutator connects diode - it is closed - no continity through it
so 4000v sees no path to ground. the only path is directly to the grids.
There is no splitting of anything here.

---> is the diode
======== is a rod

[boguslaw]

I don't like to repeat myself (I mentioned that in Gray tube thread ) but I'm more and more sure that Gray 'splitting the positive' means one more thing. Consider my concept :

1. HV is slammed on diode and compressed exactly like Aaron said

2. it spreads around charging copper mesh (radiant effect) or the dielectric between two copper tubes which are probably not connected together (my idea) - forming secondary capacitor of special value - it can be charged by pure voltage potential because charge is taken from ions

alternatively copper mesh is simple acting like antenna catching radiant energy

3. the load, capacitor after the load and a set of deep cycle batteries are a working circuit like in Tesla patent, the length of this circuit must be carefully adjusted to the frequency of discharge occurring in Gray tube - it's delayed line for discharge from meshes/secondary capacitor (point 2)

4. on next discharge there is something interesting : two HV positive potentials are crashing on each other like lightning on ground. One from ordinary capacitor and one delayed from Gray tube !

that is I believe positive feedback we missed

Think about it : if there is a current inside plasma discharge on spark gap inside tube then magnetic field is perpendicular to it rotating around in the same manner as around conductor. I that current is abruptly stopped then magnetic field is compressed and the released as rays (dielectric conversion probably as described by Steinmetz)
When to positive discharges crash on each other then the condensation of magnetic field lines is highly magnified and released rays are more powerful. On each cycle this effect is magnifying energy !

The capacitor before batteries pack is simply to remove DC factor from delayed discharge from Gray tube, which then is charging batteries in meantime between each cycle.AC factor of Gray tube discharge is probably flowing on dielectric of batteries pack quite freely.

[Inquorate]

Thanks guys

Now I think I understand the gray tube. I am now wondering if somehow the same thing is happening re the resonance effects for everyone to share thread...

[DavidE]

Great feedback on this thread... thank you.

Collaboration... catalyzes sooo many new possibilities.

[What The Flux]

Aaron,
Thanks for that explanation and illustration. I think I probably knew that concept from reading the spark plug thread, but it didn't sink in until now.
Do you have any idea how long it takes a diode to shut down when it goes into reverse bias? I'm going to try to detect it on my o-scope.

Another interpretation I've been considering for 'splitting the positive', is perhaps Gray was referring to how the positive charge gets split into it's electrical and radiant components (or hot/cold electricity).

Although Bearden shows the copper grids as covering the whole spark assembly, Gray's original documents just show them only covering the very positive HV anode. When that diode slams shut, you are essentially separating out positive radiant from positive electrical. The radiant energy then goes through the motor coils and back to ground.

Just one of those thoughts that goes through your head when you're trying to go to sleep...

[DavidE]

Google Image Result for http://www.icestuff.com/~energy21/edgray4.jpg

Received the following from John Bedini regarding Grays coils, the power conversion tube and what is going on with the motor;
john1 wrote:
Jerry - You can drag me into this all you want, The answers have been given to everybody, every time I posted something with you, AS I SAID BEFORE THERE IS NO SECRET TO GRAYS MACHINE I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS SO MAGICAL ABOUT A HIDDEN TUBE THAT GRAY HAD. I have given Peter the lab notes from my files on gray's tubes when Ron and I went to visit him . Peter came to visit Me he knows what I can do with My machines. I asked him kindly to not say anything that I was working on, this was my own request until I'm ready.
Back to gray's tube and motor. I have given peter My lab notes on this tube He has my permission to do anything he wants with them. Peter has given you all the answer not only in his book but in your discussion group, but once again, "WE ARE ALL BLIND".
He has said to you all in the group it's how you capture the energy!!!!!!!!!!!! What is so hard for you all to understand. It's almost like we do not speak the same language. Now to the real stuff...
First of all the motors shown on the internet are something different Gray was working on. """""" THE COILS ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE MOTOR I HAVE SEEN IN THE EARLY DAYS"""""""" what does this say to everybody??????
Can anybody answer Me as to how these tubes work,,, NO BECAUSE YOUR LOOKING FOR THEM, YOU WON'T FIND THEM, and no one can make them if you do not understand them. TESLA USED THE SAME TUBES THAT RAN HIS CAR!!!!!!!!!!.
I have also said that the school girl motor gave all the answers to the problem of free energy. Their is not going to be any kit that somebody can buy at radio shack, Research into this field takes real hard work. The Swiss machine uses the same tubes, WHY BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO CHANGE THE FORM OF ENERGY TO SOMETHING USEABLE.
Splitting the Positive what does this mean, it means that one lower form of positive energy is transformed into a higher form, but they are the same potential energy except useable now to do work "REAL POWER IN WATTS" or if you would say AMPS times VOLTS.
I have made he statement to you before about the way everybody gets the FLUE the stuff that makes you sick, you just don't just get it, takes "TIME" Time is the key factor in pulsed motors(""" GRAY""")....
IT TAKES TIME TO STORE THE CHARGE TO SOME POTENTIAL BEFORE YOU CAN USE IT FOR DISCHARGE into something. Into something meaning a storage battery or some load that the meters can measure. Closing the loop YOU CAN'T, free energy does not work this way, loops are never closed in any machine that's over unity.
THE TWO ENERGIES ARE DIFFERENT because the two POSITIVES ARE DIFFERENT they are at the same potential but one weak, one collected and strong in discharge . Stored charge, Time, discharge to something , no closed loop, these are the keys to free energy , and it's not free you must work to get it. By the way the motor runs without the tube, just a little stronger with it and time delayed.
Someone answer how the tubes work and we will have a real discussion on Gray, and then comes a picture of a pro-type tube taken with a digital camera that I built some time ago for a different machine. And you can post this..
John

[DavidE]

[Bodkins]

Thank you everone this is the first time i get it