Electrostatic Induction

[dmonarch]

I have been studying electricity and magnetism and was wondering why magnetic induction is used over electrostatic induction. Magnetic induction requiring movement to induce a current in a conductor. While electrostatic induction merely requiring switching in most cases which is cheap. On top of that it would seem once you create a source charge on a non conductor you have the means of polarizing a conductor and so creating a momentary high voltage pulse which could be passed through to s transformer to convert to something usable. If the non conducting source charge was in a vacuum tube it would last for a very long time. As well there would seem to be no limit to the speed at which this process of polarization and discharge could occur.
Damian
ps merry christmas all

[Inquorate]

Interesting

Interesting point. What do you think you could do with this idea?

[Ted Ewert]

I have been studying electricity and magnetism and was wondering why magnetic induction is used over electrostatic induction.

In a word... Power. It's a lot easier to get gobs of power from magnetic induction than from electrostatics. Not that it's more efficient by any means, but the research and engineering have all been done and it's a no brainer.
The Testatika machine uses electrostatics and has been running for years, providing power to the community. Check it out.
Paul Baumann: Testatika Generator (Methernitha Group)

[gyula]

I have been studying electricity and magnetism and was wondering why magnetic induction is used over electrostatic induction. Magnetic induction requiring movement to induce a current in a conductor. While electrostatic induction merely requiring switching in most cases which is cheap. On top of that it would seem once you create a source charge on a non conductor you have the means of polarizing a conductor and so creating a momentary high voltage pulse which could be passed through to s transformer to convert to something usable. If the non conducting source charge was in a vacuum tube it would last for a very long time. As well there would seem to be no limit to the speed at which this process of polarization and discharge could occur.
Damian
ps merry christmas all

Hi,

In one of my textbooks the energy density of magnetic and electric fields are compared in an example.
The electric field strength in the example was 10 MegaVolt/meter and the permittivity of (the good insulating material) dielectric was 2. This gave about 885 Joule / cubic meter energy density.
The magnetic field was 1.1 Tesla in air so the magnetic energy densitiy was about 481000 Joule / cubic meter.
So the magnetic energy density was about 540 times higher, this could explain why magnetic induction is so widespread.

rgds, Gyula

[dmonarch]

Field strength

I am still very new to all of this and have many subjects yet to cover but wouldnt the efficiency of the actual process for creating the high voltage pulses be in our favour and that work only needs to be put in to create the charge source initially after which all that is involved is the cost of switching. On top of that you have the potential to tap the charge source as many time as you desire and as quickly as you desire.
Even a paradigm change was required where each device had its own semi unlimited electrostatic power source that would matter little.

Hi,

In one of my textbooks the energy density of magnetic and electric fields are compared in an example.
The electric field strength in the example was 10 MegaVolt/meter and the permittivity of (the good insulating material) dielectric was 2. This gave about 885 Joule / cubic meter energy density.
The magnetic field was 1.1 Tesla in air so the magnetic energy densitiy was about 481000 Joule / cubic meter.
So the magnetic energy density was about 540 times higher, this could explain why magnetic induction is so widespread.

rgds, Gyula

[dmonarch]

Quick reply

ps wasnt tesla who said static electricity was not to be considered a feable force.

[Chip Shorter]

Static electricity can be used to power a motive load. Herman Plausen did it in the 1920's This guy sent foil balloons about 900 feet in the air and was making 225 Hp. In winter he was making near 400 hp. Tesla said the earth is a big capacitor. Essentially the ground is exactly that a ground or the -plate of the cap. The Ionosphere is charged to 360 million volts. This is positive. What Plausen did was to build a static motor. Not some soda pop bottle thing but a real motor. He would wind coils to create capacitance. Remember an inductor is a capacitor. It only becomes an inductor when you provide it a circuit path to a lower potential such as ground. So to make a long story short Dont provide static electricity with a path to ground. No voltage drops that way and NO POWER IS CONSUMED. All you have to do is switch capacitance. You can then ground one side of the circuit. You need to maintain your potential at all times. Caps have a funny way of over charging themselves in a circuit such as this so put spark gaps in otherwise you will break over your insulation. Most varnish wire is good to about 3000 volts safely. Also when you cut the wire on the one end that you dont hook to anything insulate it. Also switching the coils requires a brush and commutator system, this is perhaps the most important part as it cannot arc over. A brush system can be readily made from adhesive foil and a some hookup wire for the brushes. I used duct vent tape(not duct tape like Red Green uses) that is real thin aluminum with adhesive on the back. I used a artificial HV power supply. I have a feeling that Ed Gray used a similar principal on his system. Anyway here are some Hermann Plauson: Conversion of Atmospheric Electricity (Articles & patents)

Antonio d'Angelo -- Inter-Atomic Ion Motor -- NY Times article & US Patent # 2021177

[dmonarch]

Thanks for the info chip very interesting. This is the question Indoquote you get the feeling that it is possible but just how I am not sure, maybe with an asymetric non conductor which has been charged.
Another question though is are electrical effects produced when a conducting source charge of say positive say like an electroscope is polarizaed in an alternate fashion by an electric field of a positive/negative source charge. That is mechanically for now atleast if you have an electroscope which has been positivly charged and you move a positive/negative source charge back and forth in proximity to the electrscope are electrical effects produced

[dmonarch]

Charge denisty

Is there a way of modeling charge density of particular shapes. I have always wondered what the result would be for forms which induce emedding/fractalness. With such forms would the charge density reach such level that there would be escape points where you would not expect them. An example of such a shape might be the pyramid. It would explain i guess why for the pyramids there is an ionic collumn shooting out the top center.
It would seem that there would be applications in using nature rather than brute force in free energy development.
ps. does anyone know of an active group which discusses this kind of thing. I know this is a little of topic even though directed at energy producion

[boguslaw]

Something is happening in circuits when electric charges density is forming stationary waves ,that's for sure.No current but something new occurs.Maybe it is related to electrostatic effects.

[dmonarch]

Stationary waves

Yeah thats what i thought. When you look at the gray tube or what tesla did it appears as though they are trying to do this one thing. Each wave would be pushing out in all directions from the source. It is not electrical wave it is the component which causes an electrical event in our standard circuits. This component has been split of in an abrupt way producing a shockwave which when coming in contact with any metals produces an electrical event

When you think about it the only thing was different between then and now was how they generated electricity. I only say this because the event tesla noted when the switch was flicked at the power station and caused the anomaly seems to be engineered out of everything we use today. Maybe the power source needs to be an electrostatic hv generator such as a wimhurst.

Something is happening in circuits when electric charges density is forming stationary waves ,that's for sure.No current but something new occurs.Maybe it is related to electrostatic effects.

[boguslaw]

Yeah thats what i thought. When you look at the gray tube or what tesla did it appears as though they are trying to do this one thing. Each wave would be pushing out in all directions from the source. It is not electrical wave it is the component which causes an electrical event in our standard circuits. This component has been split of in an abrupt way producing a shockwave which when coming in contact with any metals produces an electrical event

When you think about it the only thing was different between then and now was how they generated electricity. I only say this because the event tesla noted when the switch was flicked at the power station and caused the anomaly seems to be engineered out of everything we use today. Maybe the power source needs to be an electrostatic hv generator such as a wimhurst.

Define "everything we use today". I agree that Tesla used special generators and I have long searched also for old DC generators schematic used by Edison. Unfortunately I can't find any, maybe searching for patents would bring some results. Tesla clearly said that the reason for shock wave was unipolarity of discharge due to various reasons - which mean mostly high self-induction of generator coils forbidding "back flow" oscillations.