Tesla's Stout copper bars "Hairpin Circuit"

[dR-Green]

As smart as you think you are, please remember that information is connected to distinctions that construes another's perspective interpretation. This is the problem that you Tesla Elites arrogantly jump right over every time. You don't KNOW what Tesla meant because you don't have a way to confirm such detail with him. So you copy a page of his text and offer that as as answers. Ridiculous.

The only other way to get closer to "inventor meaning" is to build things and run experiments which allows a reconstruction of what does what and how. And even this is an imperfect model because most invent their own distinctions along the way that is "meaningful" to them, but not necessarily succinct when considering the original distinction and its intent.

Language, which represent the reality we all live within, naturally evolves as do meanings of distinctions over time. So discerning essence of old established dogma utilizing more modern thinking - is like hitting a ghost with a bullet.

Ignoring established facts because someone has said something that you like the sound of in a youtube video is what's ridiculous.

What makes you think that the guy who says in a youtube video "this uses radiant energy" is qualified to proclaim it?

What makes you think he has any idea what he's talking about?

Why do you choose to believe it?

Tesla used the term radiant energy where and when it was applicable. He didn't simply forget to mention it in all the patents and experiments where it's not mentioned.

In case you didn't notice, someone failed to replicate the experiment from all the amazing information given in the opening post. Didn't you wonder why?

Anyway I see no reason to once again defend the truth from people insisting that inapplicable made up nonsense should be applied to explain it. It is what it is as the record shows. When no one is able to understand or replicate Tesla's work, you will know why.

[wayne.ct]

Impedance

Hi Vitom,

Your wires and the arrangement of your experiment are all wrong. This device and experiment all have to do with impedance in an electric circuit. The copper rods, connecting top rod, capacitors and high voltage source form a circuit that exhibit high frequency oscillations due to the spark gap. HF is very sensitive to inductance. Each inch of conductor in the circuit has "one inch" of inductance. You have too many inches of conductor and the circuit is laying all over your table.

This is just one of the problems in your setup. Please take this comment as a suggestion. Don't let it ruin your day.

[DavidE]

dR-Green

All that I can say is your black and white Tesla world is anything but black and white.

That is the bottom line for most.

[citfta]

Hi David,

I get accused on this forum of not believing in OU and sometimes of believing too much in conventional theory. I have stated over and over again that I think there are areas of electrical knowledge that are still not totally understood. I also believe I have personally seen OU twice in my own testing. So please understand I am not a naysayer against OU. But until I see something unusual in a circuit I don't consider that circuit to be anything to get excited about. I also believe if conventional theory can explain the things observed about a circuit then there is no need to invent fantasy theories about that circuit.

I posted all that to help you understand why I believe there is nothing about that hairpin circuit that suggests anything unusual is going on. That circuit is a neat circuit for displaying the properties of a standing wave. Any old time Ham Radio operator can easily tell you why that circuit does what it does. You are correct that resonance plays a part in that circuit as it does in any radio transmitter. If that circuit is tuned to resonance there will be nodes of voltage and nulls of voltage on the hairpin part of the circuit. For the circuit to work the hairpin has to be tuned so that the frequency of the energy from the spark gap is mostly concentrated so that the hairpin part of the circuit is a multiple of the wavelength. It can be 1/2 wave or 2 wave lengths or any even multiple. This is all explained in the Amateur Radio Operator's Handbook.

I cannot understand why so many on this forum do not want to take the time to learn the fundamentals of electronics and still think they are doing serious research. How can anyone possibly expect to recognize when something unusual is happening if they don't know what a normal happening is.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[DavidE]

citfta

First... did I claim OU? No I didn't. It would be like admitting, I'm telepathic... and would I do that? No I wouldn't.

Using the word "Radiant" is like inviting Peanut Butter to a Jelly party. It just turns into a gooey mess.

But what I am saying is that I have developed my own body of knowledge supported by other experimenters - that conclusively shows that there are other energies that interact in circuits of this kind. I have a low power circuit that has allowed me to do hundreds of replications and variations - there is another less known force at play. You can call it whatever you want. Once it enters the circuit - its pervasive and it changes the way semiconductors are designed to operate.

This force has different characteristics than DC or AC. So what is it?

I am tired of listening to these Tesla idiots that can only quote words and phrases from a man that they didn't know or are able to associate with. They haven't invented anything and they are convinced that all that can be invented already has. Sorry, I believe the largest body of knowledge is yet undiscovered.

The amateur radio field is fascinating, I just don't have enough time to devote to a new field of study.

My focus is simple. Accessing power through the dielectric at will, then conditioning that power to be used in any common device.

[dR-Green]

This force has different characteristics than DC or AC. So what is it?

Do you even understand the effect as Tesla describes it?

The same can be achieved along ONE stout copper bar. The bulb lights due to a difference in potential across the filament. The potential at 1cm along the length of a bar is different to the potential at 50cm along the same bar. Therefore by connecting the bulb terminals to the 1cm and 50cm points the bulb may be brought to illumination. The magic of potential difference.

[DavidE]

dR-Green

The same can be achieved along ONE stout copper bar.

-More accurately EITHER stout bar.

The bulb lights due to a difference in potential across the filament.

-You only have test filament bulbs? Unfortunate.

The potential at 1cm along the length of a bar is different to the potential at 50cm along the same bar. Therefore by connecting the bulb terminals to the 1cm and 50cm points the bulb may be brought to illumination.

-You make my point beautifully. If you understand the fundamentals behind the effects, there are countless variations of configurations and RESULTS.

See this is the problem with DOGMA. If you can produce the exact set of materials and conditions great - but lets say you need to produce the effect with different materials and you want to MAGNIFY the results to everyday usable levels.

[blackchisel97]

@blackchisel97 thanks for responding. I tried to run the circuit with both bars shorted together however it seems to make no difference. I used copper wire to short them.
I wanted to get a variac to control input, only thing is around here they are a bit hard to find, but I'll look around and hopefully i'll stumble upon a reasonably priced 2nd hand one. Then I could reduce the distance between the electrodes in the spark gap and run it for a longer time at appropriate power and maybe figure out what the problem is. Could it be that i need to vary the position of the bulb connections or shorting wire on the rods, so to "tune" the circuit in that way?

Hi Vitom,

You could try from scratch. Leave those jar caps alone for now as we don't know how good they are and their capacitance. Use the doorknobs you have.
If you can get some copper tubing (plumbing supplies), couple 90deg elbows, couplers and copper tubing clamps which will allow you to place connecting points where you want. I would use two 1m long straight pieces and 30cm for the top bar. I have couplers on vertical bars which allow to either extend or disassemble them for storage. I've been using this for different type of experiment thus, the loop on top which can be swapped with other attachments. You can flatten bottom ends, bend them 90deg and drill hole in each for the capacitors. This way you'll eliminate couple wired connections which adds impedance. Use thick and as short as practical wires between the transformer-spark gap and caps. This picture I attached was taken when circuit was running from less than 30VAC (limited by variac) going to OBIT transformer and spark gap was adjusted to 0.4mm.
Don't let small failures to discourage you. It will work.

Regards
V

[OrthoParameter]

I'll be your huckleberry

I am tired of listening to these Tesla idiots that can only quote words and phrases from a man that they didn't know or are able to associate with.

I'm proud to be one of thoseTesla idiots. A careful study Tesla and the language of the day, along with actually READING his words for years and years have convinced me that he didn't talk in code. He is quite clear about what he was doing. His wireless transmission of power through the Earth is clearly defined by him, his words about the production of huge numbers of horsepower are clearly stated and understood to be reactive power. No mystery or magic to be found anywhere and trust me I believe in magic and have seen many magical things and I believe it highly possible that Tesla also had experiences and beliefs that parallel mine. I also believe that he wrote not a single word about technology that he knew mankind would be able to turn on each other. He was too smart to what, think that someday some guy named David would figure out his hidden message and save planet Earth. No, if he knew something, he kept it to himself. If you think differently then put it together and show it, it should be simple if one understood his "code".

They haven't invented anything and they are convinced that all that can be invented already has.

That is a highly speculative and false assumption!


Sorry, I believe the largest body of knowledge is yet undiscovered.

Anyone with a brain would agree with you on this point. You are Master of the Obvious.

My focus is simple. Accessing power through the dielectric at will, then conditioning that power to be used in any common device.

So, one IDIOT to one GENIUS, exactly how would you go about achieving the goal of your focus using your magical interpretation of Tesla Technology?

It's a shame that people like you and Mikey can't have a logical discussion without name calling and handing out insults like they were cotton candy. Life can be hard enough without all the drama. Try proving your point instead....

obligatory letters

[mikrovolt]

DavidE
The connection between Tesla hairpin and Lecher is not clear.

The Lecher designs have been reworked hundreds of times over.
Engineers have superseded what was developed in early 1900's
Some of what was phenomena in those days is accepted fact.

It is probable that Tesla used the various types of Lecher bridges as instruments
but in this case the lecture demonstration uses only Tesla patented components.
The proprietary nature of discussing other patented or copy righted materials
the art of delivering a sensational lecture by borrowing concepts as long as
certain details are left out. It is this game of legal propriety rather than dogma.

The Lecher wire system of it's original form resembled Tesla's hairpin
but there are other lecher devices should not be confused and do not
give evidence to what Tesla did or did not understand. He no doubt
read about and experimented with the new findings as they came out.

There was much advancement in the electrical study of high frequency during that period.
The Wheatstone bridge was among the instrumentation that caused this
advancement. Most of the famous electrical scientist adapted the bridge
to fit there own applications thus many variations of the Wheatstone bridge.
Including the lecher bridge being different from the lecher wire system.

Lecher wires could be directly used 10 M to 70 cm in practicality.
online gamma match probably give right lengths, they tune better.
There was some ground wave predictions made but the divided as multiples
thing was not popular at VLF. Sound would be a pain, As an example
a wavelength of 60 hertz would take 3100 miles of lecher wire without multiples.
I think it was Sanders who tried to attain the aspired ludicrous speed with this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE01sOhzz0

Lee de forest used the other principles by adapting the lecher wire system to a blondlot oscillator.
Tesla probably was not busy improving chemistry lab equipment to determine the K value of liquids.
de forest also prolific used this idea to selectively narrow the broad banded spark gap wave for radio.

Reflection wave at the ends of parallel wires

[DavidE]

OrthoP

It's a shame that people like you and Mikey can't have a logical discussion without name calling and handing out insults like they were cotton candy. Life can be hard enough without all the drama. Try proving your point instead....

Name calling? Telsa drones cut and paste Tesla like its the ONLY interpretation. Evidence of this is Dr-Green's litterings on this thread.

SO you copy a Tesla patent and you replicate it to perfection. If you can't utilize what makes it viable so what? I make cookies all of the time from recipes, but that doesn't make me Wolfgang Puck.

If you want to advance this field, you will need to advance beyond copying another's work proves that have the answers attitude. All it demonstrates is that you have the discipline to follow a recipe. In some sense that is valuable, but more so what you LEARN from the experience and can apply it in new ways to advance the science.

A careful study Tesla and the language of the day, along with actually READING his words for years and years have convinced me that he didn't talk in code. He is quite clear about what he was doing. His wireless transmission of power through the Earth is clearly defined by him, his words about the production of huge numbers of horsepower are clearly stated and understood to be reactive power. No mystery or magic to be found anywhere and trust me I believe in magic and have seen many magical things and I believe it highly possible that Tesla also had experiences and beliefs that parallel mine. I also believe that he wrote not a single word about technology that he knew mankind would be able to turn on each other. He was too smart to what, think that someday some guy named David would figure out his hidden message and save planet Earth. No, if he knew something, he kept it to himself. If you think differently then put it together and show it, it should be simple if one understood his "code".

Well then hang your head high and fly that flag.

When you are five, you say what you say and are convinced that what you SEE is it. Just talk to any five year old. The same for a ten year old, and a twenty year old and so on. All that you will ever have is your interpretations of what Tesla said. And to take that interpretation and demand that others believe only that, is a disservice.

A forum is a place to launch thoughts, reflections, consideration with no attachment to outcome. That is true collaboration. It is a mood that doesn't normally exist here because so many people are convinced that they know, and the world is just waiting for their superior knowledge.

I don't claim to know anything - but if you build and observe - and others build and observe - over time this will form fundamentals which may serve all.

I'm proud to be one of those Tesla idiots.

It is this simple thought that has you squash parallel possibilities. You contribute what you call "information" which may in fact be disinformation. Establishing new realities through collaboration in this field is the only hope of advancing productive technologies. This means we are all the same at the table of sharing, no one should represent more weight. The minute you are smarter than everyone at the table, is the day you should consider leaving the table.

There are dribs and drabs of what Tesla did contribute to the War machine. Including offensive and defensive weapons - and even time travel technologies.

I guess it just depends on what narrative you believe in. Off course he was a pivotal man in energetic science - but let's be careful about putting him on the white horse. In the end he was no different than you or me, when faced with mortality, he submitted to his own weakness, survival. Its true... that is just another narrative of Tesla the man, but it is corroborated by many that worked with him through the last period of his life.

What I would like to hear from you is what you observed and have learned from your set ups. You don't need to invoke your words under the guise of Tesla... to have value.

So is your real name Ortho?

[DavidE]

mikrovolt

The YouTube you posted should be ample proof for the existence of "ludricous speed." I believe that dR-Green will agree also (he loves YouTube).

The connection between Tesla hairpin and Lecher is not clear.

Agreed... but that there is any connection is very interesting. What is clear is that Tesla over the years parsed many others work, focused and refined them ending in patent-able property.

My point (obviously) is not to focus on Tesla or Lecher, but to reference their work in some specific instances. Then once we are there, further explore possibilities with the circuits, or derivatives of the circuits.

As I have mentioned before (observations) I have taken note of new kinds of energies at certain frequencies, configurations and power levels. In these circumstances if we can discipline our mind to study these new phenomena (different properties than known) we may discover a whole series of new possibilities.

Up to this day far too many people in the field... suggests certain phenomena like disposable static or inconsequential magnetic subtleties are not worthy of more time to understand. I don't happen to agree. And even if we parse the beloved Tesla, he made notice that there were many mysteries with unique phenomena that he never played out - publicly.

Some of my work is inspired by other inventors, but many times circuits in their original form (offered by them) have not been much practical good.

Whether you agree with Karl Palsness or not, he approached some very valid points about utilizing new forms of energy to power devices of this day. I hear his words clearly, but the echo for most has long died away.

We cannot allow one religion to blot out the potential relevance of all religions. So I say why not all of us establish a commitment to learn more comprehensive understandings, without holding the illusion that we already have the answer.

In closing... I don't use the word Tesla idiots easily. Its a bit beyond my typical live and let live life. But when the chirping birds volume goes so high that I can't hear myself think - I release pressure by tagging source of the droning.

Obviously a sign of my weakness, my apologies.

[dR-Green]

Telsa drones cut and paste Tesla like its the ONLY interpretation. Evidence of this is Dr-Green's litterings on this thread.

You are jumping to the same nonsense conclusion that you did in the first place, no progress has been made because you are unable to listen. Every word is going through the filter so you see what you want to see.

Learn to crawl before you try to walk.

[DavidE]

Observations from an inventor of the day.

Does this belong on this thread? Consider... it belongs on every thread.

Start at 5:00 - Regarding where Electricity comes from?
[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=335&v=I-wYuYog7b0[/VIDEO]

"Atmoshphere is aether"
"Electricity is aether polarized."
-Dollard

[vitom001]

@Blackchisel97 I have disassembled the setup and will try again from scratch, like you said, with proper copper tubing, a stand and a variac. I'll also review the literature regarding impedance phenomena so I can more accurately understand what is going on. I'll report back when I have some results. Thanks for helping.