Electrogravitics

[Inquorate]

I thought there should be a thread on this; I haven't done any experiments on this yet, but I intend to do so before the year is out...

ELECTROGRAVITICS RESEARCH IN THE 20th CENTURY

YouTube - TT Brown Electrokinetic Apparatus

Electrogravitic References from Robert Stirniman

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/elgthk.htm

Stirniman's Electrogravitics Reference List

[Inquorate]

Electret

Check out dmonarch's Electrophorous thread.. I've got Carnauba and beeswax en route, ordered from a soap supplies website, and plan to get white rosin from a good music shop - they use it for violins

As for reading your mind, I did wonder what your 'project' was just before I put 'tt brown electrogravitics' into google, and it wouldn't be the first time I've 'picked up' ppl's thoughts.

plus, this research seems to have a life of it's own..

[dambit]

Hi guys,

I've just started to do some experiments in this field, but I have had trouble with my power supply. It's 100KV but I think it's putting out way below that level. I'm not sure how to check voltages that high. Any ideas?

Cheers,

Steve.

[Inquorate]

Reading high voltage

Voltage divider calculator - loaded and open-circuit damping volts potentiometer - sengpielaudio

Voltage divider circuits : DIVIDER CIRCUITS AND KIRCHHOFF'S LAWS

Just use two resistors off your output to ground or negative, one of them one or ten percent etc of the other. Then measure off the smaller one and it will give you a percentage of the actual voltage :-)

[Electrotek]

Your Brain?

Here is a picture of a candle flame in an electrogravitic field.

[Inquorate]

candle flame

The ion wind of the lifter accounts for the upside-down-ness of the flame..

What I find curious is the angle of the flame, as it appears to be a steady slope away from Alfoil of lifter.

I'm assuming that is a steady state of the flame (not flickering side to side) or you wouldn't have posed it as a mysterious phenomena, as you'd know about the ion wind.

So, that would mean there is something interacting with the flame at a steady rate (else flame would not be at straight angle and would curve) at 90 degrees to the voltage polarity of the lifter...

What is the voltage polarity? Wire neg and foil pos? That would make ionized air molecules collect electrons at wire and be attracted to foil which is deficient in electrons. Hence the upwards thrust.

Could be that the air hits the ground and goes away from centre of lifter, because lower air pressure so less air molecule collisions in that direction hence more free to go that way...

That would make a sine curve shaped cross section of the airflow, which explains the angle of the flame.

But it doesn't explain the straight-ness of the flame.

What happens when you shield the flame by putting it in a cylinder?

Is the hv ac or dc? sine, square or triangle wave?

[dambit]

Personally, I think that while the lifters are interesting in there own right, more attention should be focused on Browns cellular gravitators. The totally enclosed type. This is in my opinion the only real way to dismiss ion wind all together. There are dielectric materials around today that far exceed those that Brown was using and a lot of them are common place. Many of the resins used to encapsulate electronic circuits have high K values as well as high dielectric strengths (in the order of 18KV/mm and up).

Once my power supply is sorted I will be focusing my research on these types of gravitators. If anyone else has had some experience with them I welcome any and all advice.

Cheers,

Steve.

[Dingus]

I can't quite put my finger on what it is exactly that gave me the idea, but I think it may be possible to weaponize the gravitator by making one electrode into a cone shape that barely sticks into the other, ring or torus shaped electrode with an air-gap inbetween. I think this would create a gravitational pulse out of the torus-end only, and no recoil. It's much simpler then Eugene Podkletnov's design, but I'm not quite sure where the idea came from.

I think a good place to start is charging a Electret.

I don't think an electret would be very useful for a gravitator.

[Electrotek]

The ion wind of the lifter accounts for the upside-down-ness of the flame..

What I find curious is the angle of the flame, as it appears to be a steady slope away from Alfoil of lifter.

I'm assuming that is a steady state of the flame (not flickering side to side) or you wouldn't have posed it as a mysterious phenomena, as you'd know about the ion wind.

So, that would mean there is something interacting with the flame at a steady rate (else flame would not be at straight angle and would curve) at 90 degrees to the voltage polarity of the lifter...

What is the voltage polarity? Wire neg and foil pos? That would make ionized air molecules collect electrons at wire and be attracted to foil which is deficient in electrons. Hence the upwards thrust.

Could be that the air hits the ground and goes away from centre of lifter, because lower air pressure so less air molecule collisions in that direction hence more free to go that way...

That would make a sine curve shaped cross section of the airflow, which explains the angle of the flame.

But it doesn't explain the straight-ness of the flame.

What happens when you shield the flame by putting it in a cylinder?

Is the hv ac or dc? sine, square or triangle wave?

The mysterious phenomena I recognize in the candle flame is its color. This bright white effect is similar to Brown's 'flame on a wire' (Pat. #3022430), except it isn't stretched out to 1 1/2 times its normal length. This white color is a high frequency effect caused by the HV pulses interacting with the ions in the flame. I am familiar with the ion wind, as characterized in Pat. #3120363. Interesting, voltages around 15kV work the best, since the best efficiency occurs when the ions move at the same rate as the lift.

The wire is negative, as you say. Smaller wires work the best, such as the thin tungsten wire used in copiers and printers to produce the static charge. The thinner the electrode, the more straight out this part of the field is. The effect is maximized when thin line lithography is used to lay down the electrode material. The best test to date produced 10 lbs. of lift with 45 W input power, using a uranium electrode to release the maximum amount of electrical energy.

Tests relating to the ion wind usually employ smoke for a visual effect. This effect can be shielded with a Faraday Cage, so perhaps your brain would be safe, but that would add extra weight. As would the radiation shielding.

The pulses are HV DC square waves, ideally, although triangle waves also work. So far, no one is publicly using longitudinal forces.

@dambit: I agree that the cellular thrusters are the best. Since they're stacked, they can't be relying on interactions with the environment. I haven't done any work on this yet, but I've noticed that my puff spark really kicks the dowel rod I'm using as a hot stick. (Circuit attached.) I've heard that barium strontium titanate has a K of 1300. For my set up, I'm planning to make the cells out of 10 layers of parafin, with carefully weighed amounts of particles of dielectric mixed in, increasing towards the small end. I have a magnetron with a coax attachment and a half wave disc radiator. So I'll impose this field over the HV, as Brown suggests. I also want to try Farnsworth's phaser (Pat. #3022430) since I've found that a 1B3 tube will work for this effect.


@Dingus: Why do you want to weaponize it? I don't think your arrangement will produce a severe enough effect, anyway. For a gravity implosion you'd need a positive singularity.

[Electrotek]

@dambit: I meant to say I intend to mix semiconductive granules with the parafin dielectric. I have some aluminum oxide sand blast material, so I'll try this. I also have some peltiers on hand, so I may try using the galena. This may be the best, since I've read reports of low level thrust from the peltiers.

[Dingus]

I don't think your arrangement will produce a severe enough effect, anyway. For a gravity implosion you'd need a positive singularity.

It was just an idea I got from something I had read about exotic vacuum objects, and I thought that the arrangement might produce a similar effect to
Podkletnov's Gravity Impulse Generator without needing gas chambers and liquid nitrogen cooling.

On an unrelated note, does anyone happen to know, or have an idea of what would happen if a radiant charge were used instead of a regular electrical pulse?

[Electrotek]

@Dingus: I think it's very important to find out. I'm going to try, using my Radiant spark with NASA's patent:

Apparatus and method for generating ... - Google Patents

Here's some other related patents:

6317310 - Google Patents

Here's my spark:

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...n-tubetest.jpg

I can get extreme High Voltage using my system similar to this:

Capacity changer - Google Patents

[Inquorate]

Please read every word on these pages

Tesla's Last Known Living Assistant's Recorded Statement

http://www.nuenergy.org/alt/mathews.htm

Nicolai Tesla's Dynamic Theory of Gravity | Love for Life

Nicolai Tesla's Dynamic Theory of Gravity | Love for Life

Summation of Tesla's Dynamic Theory of Gravity

Summation of Tesla's Dynamic Theory of Gravity

[seth]

The mysterious phenomena I recognize in the candle flame is its color. This bright white effect is similar to Brown's 'flame on a wire' (Pat. #3022430), except it isn't stretched out to 1 1/2 times its normal length. This white color is a high frequency effect caused by the HV pulses interacting with the ions in the flame. I am familiar with the ion wind, as characterized in Pat. #3120363. Interesting, voltages around 15kV work the best, since the best efficiency occurs when the ions move at the same rate as the lift.

The wire is negative, as you say. Smaller wires work the best, such as the thin tungsten wire used in copiers and printers to produce the static charge. The thinner the electrode, the more straight out this part of the field is. The effect is maximized when thin line lithography is used to lay down the electrode material. The best test to date produced 10 lbs. of lift with 45 W input power, using a uranium electrode to release the maximum amount of electrical energy.

Tests relating to the ion wind usually employ smoke for a visual effect. This effect can be shielded with a Faraday Cage, so perhaps your brain would be safe, but that would add extra weight. As would the radiation shielding.

The pulses are HV DC square waves, ideally, although triangle waves also work. So far, no one is publicly using longitudinal forces.

@dambit: I agree that the cellular thrusters are the best. Since they're stacked, they can't be relying on interactions with the environment. I haven't done any work on this yet, but I've noticed that my puff spark really kicks the dowel rod I'm using as a hot stick. (Circuit attached.) I've heard that barium strontium titanate has a K of 1300. For my set up, I'm planning to make the cells out of 10 layers of parafin, with carefully weighed amounts of particles of dielectric mixed in, increasing towards the small end. I have a magnetron with a coax attachment and a half wave disc radiator. So I'll impose this field over the HV, as Brown suggests. I also want to try Farnsworth's phaser (Pat. #3022430) since I've found that a 1B3 tube will work for this effect.


@Dingus: Why do you want to weaponize it? I don't think your arrangement will produce a severe enough effect, anyway. For a gravity implosion you'd need a positive singularity.

Thanks electrotek!!

Very interesting observations with the candle. I'll be trying the same thing myself tonight, as well as some smoke tests. Please let us know how you get on with the cellular thrusters. I remember reading in Laviolettes book about Browns elektrokinetic apparatus with a half wave radiator which would produce thrust with AC, or DC with an AC bias. Its on page 104 of his book. Is this what you'll be trying??? Good Luck!!!

Where did you get your info about the best test to date?? I was wondering if they did any tests on different dielectric materials? Perhaps not in a lifter arrangement, but in a motor arrangement.

I would like to know if either of you guys (dambit and elektro), or anyone else on here, have done tests on different dielectrics. I have a small motor based on Naudins Poynting Flow Thruster (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/pftm2.htm), and I'll be trying different dielectric materials and comparing how much thrust they produce at varying voltages. Any ideas for some simple dielectrics I could test??

The motor is simple. 2 Beer cans as the negative and ground electrodes. One kinder surprise plastic case with aluminium foil inside as the positive electrode.

I've been told by several others on overunity that this motor works through simple electrostatic induction. I find this hard to believe as it seems to spin faster with the central electrode (rotor) POSITIVE, and the outer electrodes (stators) NEGATIVE and GROUND. If i make the central electrode (rotor) GROUND, and outer 2 electrodes (stators) Positive and Negative - as in the typical soda pop electrostatic motor arrangement - it seems to spin slower, and with a massive coronal haze around the rotor. What you might call typical electrostatic induction. So what force which doesnt manifest itself as an ionic corona is responsible for the faster spin?? Is it, as Naudin suggests, an invisible ''poynting flow''???

Naudin also did tests to disprove electrostatic induction: http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/pftm2ind.htm

Thanks for sharing guys! Happy experimenting

[Electrotek]

Seth: I haven't read the book you mention, but that sounds like what I have in mind.

My source for the best test info is an insider who worked on the project, including the test flight. He's made a lot of breakthroughs in this area, such as the increase in lift with added air pressure. For that, he used a fan blowing down a tube which had the electrodes along the inside. Also, his patent for a high altitude, long term vehicle combining helium construction with lifter electrodes was suppressed thirty years ago, with a "security clause". The government never did pay him for using it, but recently admitted they have it.

Here's another breakthrough patent, which has been proven to not produce ionic wind:
Electric Thruster - US 20080284278

Dielectrics are a good question. Just about anything could be used, in a powder form, inside a shell. Or cast, such as parafin or fiberglass resin, even epoxy. The semiconductor gradient is an important factor. As is the elasticity, or compressability of the dielectric.

Even when there's no mass in the surrounding environment, externally acting thrusters still react against the universe, from a Machian reference frame.