Big Joule Theif

[sucahyo]

So, anyway, my 3 1/4 inch toroid wound with 240 turns secondary lit the 18 inch grow light with a single NiMH AA battery.
It took 5 1/4 hours to run too low for the light to stay on. (1.1v)

Great achievement .

[Lidmotor]

The new JT circuit

Thanks Jeanna,
That should get me started on this. I like your winding ratios and the use of caps. It really sounds more like an inverter setup than a pure Joule Thief and that is not a bad thing. When we were working on the Big Joule Thief original project we ended up with a thing called the "Pulsed Inverted Joule Thief". It was the same idea only we pulsed the whole circuit with a 555 timer to drop the amp draw.
I'll let you know how this goes. I first have to order that toroid core and that takes time. I have a smaller core and I may setup the circuit with that while I wait for the mail. Maybe I can get it to run on that and light a small tube.

Lidmotor

[jeanna]

Thank you sucayho.
Thank you Lidmotor.

I need to correct the numbers.

13T on the base, 3T on the collector and 240T on the secondary.

I took 2 pics tonight to show it here.

1- I rubber stamped the second toroid and its transistor from the scene, so that is why all the blotchiness is on the left side of the circuit.

2- this is supposed to show the light.
It is not a lot but you can see how you could read this patent.

Please note that there is plenty of room for more turns and you might want to try for more. This is a MK1 design and it needed to be that number.
I discovered the other day that this is not true, I could add many more turns.

The essential part is that you want to have over 450v.

To start this I need to add a magnet to one side while touching the opposite side and then slide my hand toward the magnet.
Once the bulb is lit, I am free to remove the magnet.

Also, do not bother with a little transistor.
2N3055 is the pick here.have

---
I was never sure what the inverter part meant here. I think a joule thief really is an inverter anyway. It changes a battery steady voltage to pulsed dc over time which is more like ac. -- just my way to think about it.
I love this circuit.

----

thank you,

jeanna

[kooler]

hmmm

@jeanna
haven't i seen you before??????
hahahaha
joking.. i was wondering what size wire is your secondary
cuz i got some of those big tor-60's
i was needing more voltage for my circuit i made
the current one draws to many ma's (101) at 231 volts

i'm trying to see how much damage i can do with a aa battery
i won't stop till i blow sumthing kool up

out

[morpher44]

joule thief applications

i'm trying to see how much damage i can do with a aa battery
i won't stop till i blow sumthing kool up
out

I think one application for Joule Thief technology is in robotics.
Hear me out.
What is wanted are little personal household or work-place
robots that run around doing stuff ... on the lowest possible power.
These suckers will literally need to be thieves with respect
to Joule's of energy in the environment.
As such, they need oscillators that are very
"tunable" to whatever frequencies are receivable
for inductive coupling.

I could imagine a little robot thing hungry for Joules, entering
a "Cruz for Joules" mode where with a wide-band receiver
it seeks out a steady source of inductive vibration.
Finding the frequency ... and vectoring perhaps closer to the
source ... or entering a location with better line-of-sight..
it could recharge.

There are dongles, and transformers and noisy CFLs ...
and big TV sets, and computer monitors, etc. all around
the building. Leaching power from these when needed
seems like a good strategy for a Robot.
There is no need to "plug in" physically ... just walk up
and inductively couple.

Robots will likely have local intelligence with
distributed, peer-to-peer communications.
In a similar way, powering "recharging" a Robot should be wireless,
and exploit existing power infrastructure to keep costs
down -- making it possible to introduce robotics w/o
the need for Robot gas stations.

I think the true Joule thieves will eventually be Robots.

...and yes Kooler ... some will be able to blow stuff up...

[jeanna]

.. i was wondering what size wire is your secondary
cuz i got some of those big tor-60's
i was needing more voltage for my circuit i made
the current one draws to many ma's (101) at 231 volts

I believe I used 26 or 24 gauge... 26 is what I believe it is.
The magic occurred when I got this one tuned.
It is only 5 khz which is low enough to be audible, but it went down as the volts went up, which is a pattern I have seen repeatedly and I believe is a rule of some kind.

I had 190 volts when I finished all the turns, and I could make no magic until I started to lower the resistance which lowers the frequency.
It suddenly started to show higher volts and then near 90 ohm it went up to 411v which is what this is or ought to be.


Oh now I understand... you are trying to blow something up!
Just don't blow up your scope.!

btw xee2 used this toroid and wound only 80 turns on his secondary and got a 4 inch fluoro tube to light. I never replicated that, but it is a good thing to know a lower limit.

I almost got a 48 inch to light tonight. I got one 4 inch area on it to light but it needed my hand to stay there and nothing I did would get it to stay lit without that. It means I was really close. I would love to light that 48 inch tube with this or one like this toroid.

I think a series inductor added to this after the turns around the toroid are finished may do it... I will try that. I will if I can remember to add it to my long list, that is!

thank you,

jeanna

morpher44

I like your joules verne thief story !

[Lidmotor]

The "Joules Verne Thief"

@ Jeanna
Great name for a robotic JT!

@Morpher44 your story is not really all that far fetched. If we end up with gangs of wandering robots in our buildings, then they will be hunting energy as a group as well as doing their work. They will hunt it down and steal it wherever they can find it laying around and easy to grab. When I was a kid I made a few light seeking robots that would come towards a flashlight beam. The "JVT's" would follow the smell of the energy and they wouldn't care where it was coming from. Their real burning desire, like ours, would be to stay alive.

Lidmotor

[jeanna]

Yes, that is good.

Really good.
Please post a pic/drawing of it.

thank you,

jeanna

[Lidmotor]

Jeanna's Light

@Jeanna & All
I got the big 3 1/4" toroid core in the mail and immediately built the light circuit. It works!! I built the toroid coil a little different: 3T base 24ga. 13T collector 24ga. 300T secondary 30ga. and I added a fouth coil 10T 24ga. just to play with (not attached to anything).
I used the circuit that you described and tried different caps, FL tubes, and voltages. All I can say is that ---it's all good! That big toroid lets you do lots of things. Its like having a great big church bell that rings well.
Jonny Davro is using this toroid idea in a SEC circuit (see Jonny's latest video) so I had to try that also and THAT worked. I replaced the L1 coil in the SEC circuit with the 3T coil on the BIG BOY toroid and it drove the SEC great. All those other windings on the toroid you could do with as you pleased. You can light up a bunches of leds on AV plugs easily.
Thanks Jeanna.

Lidmotor

[jeanna]

@Jeanna & All
I got the big 3 1/4" toroid core in the mail and immediately built the light circuit. It works!! I built the toroid coil a little different: 3T base 24ga. 13T collector 24ga. 300T secondary 30ga. and I added a fouth coil 10T 24ga. just to play with (not attached to anything).

Thanks Jeanna.

Lidmotor

Yeay!!
I am so glad this worked for you.

That big toroid is also really easy to wind, because you can just toss the whole spool of wire through it.

Part of my inspiration in doing that multiple secondaries experiments that are on many of my videos was because there is so much room in this toroid, you ought to be able to light up the lights all over the room and maybe run the toaster too all with one transistor and a 1.2v battery. ( ), but, for that to work, I had to see how to make them stand alone (...which, now, I think I can do).

thank you for doing this,

jeanna
=======
add:

@Tec

Thanks Tec.
I will try this in the coming week... maybe even today.

Have you considered removing the thief light and setting up the secondary to run a dozen leds in series?
The secondary does not run the lights as bright as the thief does so this (even though you are relying on 2 transistors ) looks great to me...
J

[Inquorate]

Retreating the hand

I believe I used 26 or 24 gauge... 26 is what I believe it is.
The magic occurred when I got this one tuned.
It is only 5 khz which is low enough to be audible, but it went down as the volts went up, which is a pattern I have seen repeatedly and I believe is a rule of some kind.

I had 190 volts when I finished all the turns, and I could make no magic until I started to lower the resistance which lowers the frequency.
It suddenly started to show higher volts and then near 90 ohm it went up to 411v which is what this is or ought to be.


Oh now I understand... you are trying to blow something up!
Just don't blow up your scope.!

btw xee2 used this toroid and wound only 80 turns on his secondary and got a 4 inch fluoro tube to light. I never replicated that, but it is a good thing to know a lower limit.

I almost got a 48 inch to light tonight. I got one 4 inch area on it to light but it needed my hand to stay there and nothing I did would get it to stay lit without that. It means I was really close. I would love to light that 48 inch tube with this or one like this toroid.

I think a series inductor added to this after the turns around the toroid are finished may do it... I will try that. I will if I can remember to add it to my long list, that is!

thank you,

jeanna

morpher44

I like your joules verne thief story !

@ Jeanna, I've had some success adding an alligator clip to the system, outstretched, and connect to an aluminium pie plate.

This seems to act like an RF aerial or virtual ground, or modifies the frequency of the system, etc......

And can replace the 'hand'

With a cfl, I would clip the lead to a piece of aluminium foil wrapped around the cfl. But I haven't tried that yet.

Love and light

[morpher44]

crazy neon experiment

YouTube - Crazy Neon

[jeanna]

@ Jeanna, I've had some success adding an alligator clip to the system, outstretched, and connect to an aluminium pie plate.

This seems to act like an RF aerial or virtual ground, or modifies the frequency of the system, etc......

And can replace the 'hand'

With a cfl, I would clip the lead to a piece of aluminium foil wrapped around the cfl. But I haven't tried that yet.

Love and light

Hi Inquorate,



I will try the pie plate.
I have been wanting to try this and I keep forgetting.
Does it actually modify the frequency?

Are you adding the clip to the other pin on the fluorotube?
And, tesla did this in place of connecting to the other side of the secondary.
Are you doing that too?
Now that I mention it, I think I have not tried this. Maybe since the light starts when my hand touches but goes out when I let go is an indication that I should move to the ground??

cool... thanks for the idea.

I have not been able to start any of my cfl's. Just the tubes.

I/my hand is not needed to keep the light on, just to start it.
Same goes for the magnet.
Once the light starts I can remove the magnet and put the light down.

[I was timing one of these last summer and I had to go somewhere, so I loaded it into a basket that I could carry and put down without disturbing it, but so I could see it the moment it went out and this worked fine and was very portable.]

More indoor fun for a very rainy day!

thank you,
jeanna

added


@morpher44,

good video.
I think you are seeing this deal where you cannot have 2 secondaries coming from the same primary. In your case it is 2 lights coming from the one wire off the secondary, but I think the same thing applies. It is an ac system at this level and behaves very differently from the dc circuit. One light can steal all the juice, but not if you support that light with an inductor of its own.

Try adding an inductor in line in series with the neon on one side and see if you cannot get both to go on.
If you can figure the frequency of the circuit there it will help you find a good inductance for this coil you add.

j

[morpher44]

crazy neon continued...

I think you are seeing this deal where you cannot have 2 secondaries coming from the same primary. In your case it is 2 lights coming from the one wire off the secondary, but I think the same thing applies. It is an ac system at this level and behaves very differently from the dc circuit. One light can steal all the juice, but not if you support that light with an inductor of its own.

Try adding an inductor in line in series with the neon on one side and see if you cannot get both to go on.
If you can figure the frequency of the circuit there it will help you find a good inductance for this coil you add.
j

@jeanna

Yeah hooking up this ignition coil to the 2ndary (in parallel) has the effect of
reducing the inductance of the secondary ... changing the impedance seen on the primary side a bit. Oscillations are maintained, however, and I can peal out a high voltage on the 2ndary of the ignition coil.

I always imagined with AC that the single-wire Tesla experiment really had
a return to the coil via the immediate surfaces ... table tops ... across the floor, etc. Being a guy who has played with digital electronics most of his life, we were always schooled to have static mats for insulation ... and little wrist connected ground wires, etc.

These Neon bulbs, however, are very interesting in that they can
glow with a very minor current -- once started. I found on Wikipedia that neon exhibits negative resistance -- which actually may be a "pull energy from the environment" -- in that part of the voltage-current curve of the neon. I'm finding it fascinating that they can be stimulated to light with such little power.

The path-of-least-resistance, in the way I had it connected, produces
a toggling effect -- similar to a flip-flop in digital electronics.
Imagine if Tesla designed computers and computer memories. He
probably would have done it using AC currents through out.
We might have lived in a different world if he wasn't blacklisted by JPM
or hadn't sabotaged the Philadelphia Experiment.

Yes I agree with you that more inductors can be hooked up ...
creating a chain ... with power at each node.
This is the so-called analog computer that Eric Dollard talks about.
-morpher44

[Allcanadian]

@morpher44

These Neon bulbs, however, are very interesting in that they can
glow with a very minor current -- once started. I found on Wikipedia that neon exhibits negative resistance -- which actually may be a "pull energy from the environment" -- in that part of the voltage-current curve of the neon. I'm finding it fascinating that they can be stimulated to light with such little power.

It may help to clarify what negative resistance is I think, negative resistance by definition refers to a lack of resistance or non-linear resistance. A neon will first conduct in the glow discharge region when there is no visible light and offers a great deal of resistance. Next the excitation of the neon gas produces a rise in conduction due to ionization, this ionization reduces the resistance to conduction of an electric current. If the ionization increases due to extreme voltage a VAD, volt arc discharge will conduct large currents across the neon plates and produce a purple spark many have been talking about.
Basically the confusion over negative resistance started because of ohms law---"Ohm's law states that the current through a conductor between two points is directly proportional to the potential difference or voltage across the two points". This simplistic rule does not take into account the attributes of what constitutes a "conductor", in a neon bulb the voltage can rise to the threshold voltage at which point voltage drops and current rises as it rapidly conducts, this is not negative resistance it is non-linear conduction. "Negative" refers to a negative condition, the opposite condition to resistance is acceleration, can you have an accelerating resistance? It is like saying left is less right or the ball was falling upward, it is non-sensical. I will apologise in advance for the criticism but this wacky term has been driving me crazy every time I see it, I am not sure why engineers have to make up so many non-sensical terms to explain things which are really quite simple.
Regards
AC