Big Joule Theif

[sucahyo]

Battery charging and battery conditioning (energising) are different things and require different waveforms. A high frequency, high radiant content waveform will also charge a battery but not as efficiently as a , low radiant, low frequency pulsed waveform. Also, try connecting the charging battery neg terminal to 0V ground instead of the pos supply rail as is the convention with Bedini energisers. I find battery charging is more efficient with a 0V return and conditioning best with a return to the pos supply rail.

Interesting info. But won't utilizing negative terminal means charging it with induction plus normal electricity?

I think by utilizing 0V return you are doing normal trickle charge which can be verified by charging the battery normally. From Tesla switch document I read that a radiantly charged battery will take very long time of charge on ordinary charger before it will start charging. If your battery charge right away on ordinary charger, it would meant that you are not radiant charging it.

[Hoppy]

Hi Hoppy.

I just tried the 0v return on my SG. Wheel speed is reduced, but charging seems ALOT faster. Primary input is higher though, which would account for the faster charging. Have you done extended tests with this method to see if the charge holds? JB has talked a bit about not grounding all parts of the circuit, seems to me by grounding the charging battery you lose some of the benefits.
Regards/

ren

Hi ren

Returning the charging battery to the 0V rail kills a lot of the radiant but I find that it does give a faster deeper charge because. However, its important to keep the supply voltage lower than the charge battery voltage otherwise a direct DC charging path exists through the diode in the charging path.

Neither method of charging 'holds' and I have found over the two years I have been building and experimenting, that batteries need to be regularly cycled and periodically re-conditioned with an energiser. The sulfation process starts almost immediately a battery is left to stand irrespective of which method is used to charge it. Unless a LA battery is left permanently on an energiser which is not very practical in a lot of applications, it will deteriorate and loose capacity fairly quickly, especially if not used regularly.

Hoppy

[Hoppy]

Interesting info. But won't utilizing negative terminal means charging it with induction plus normal electricity?

I think by utilizing 0V return you are doing normal trickle charge which can be verified by charging the battery normally. From Tesla switch document I read that a radiantly charged battery will take very long time of charge on ordinary charger before it will start charging. If your battery charge right away on ordinary charger, it would meant that you are not radiant charging it.

Hi sucahyo

There is nothing normal or conventional about charging with a return to
0V ground. This method does not use DC current form the supply unless the system is set up wrong. Both methods will result in high voltage radiant energy entering the charging battery when the power coil discharges.

Hoppy

[sucahyo]

Hi sucahyo

There is nothing normal or conventional about charging with a return to
0V ground. This method does not use DC current form the supply unless the system is set up wrong. Both methods will result in high voltage radiant energy entering the charging battery when the power coil discharges.

Hoppy

Wouldn't the battery keep charging even if we turned off/remove the transistor?

[Hoppy]

I apologise to slayer007 and others for appearing to move off topic talking about Bedini charging but I see the Joule Thief as much the same device (a reactive energy charger). Most of my experimentation is with solid state Bedini type chargers / energisers and I found this thread interesting insofar as it is discussing increasing the size and power of the basic Joule Thief.

Hoppy

[Hoppy]

Wouldn't the battery keep charging even if we turned off/remove the transistor?

No, unless the supply DC voltage was higher than the charging battery terminal voltage plus about 0.6V for the forward voltage drop of the charging diode at any particular point in time.

Hoppy

[sucahyo]

No, unless the supply DC voltage was higher than the charging battery terminal voltage plus about 0.6V for the forward voltage drop of the charging diode at any particular point in time.

Hoppy

I see. So that is the reason to use twice source voltage for charged battery.


I think Joule thief would be more efficient if we use source positive as return path. Not 0V ground like many has use.

[Hoppy]

I see. So that is the reason to use twice source voltage for charged battery.


I think Joule thief would be more efficient if we use source positive as return path. Not 0V ground like many has use.

Yes, this is the big advantage of radiant charging. Small potentials can be converted to much higher potentials for charging batteries that have a higher voltage than the source supply. But the conversion process reduces the available current proportionately, so the battery charges at a slower rate. Its not necessarily that more power is made available to charge a battery than was input to the device (OU) but its the high voltage radiant energy that John Bedini has shown can result in a process within the battery that increases its capacity. The desulfation process frees up cell plate area and this can result in a considerable increase in capacity. Some people have claimed that this is evidence of OU, because their batteries start to perform much better.

Switching the Joule Thief to positive return coupled with the use of Tesla style bifilar connected power coils should increase the radiant and this will drive big banks of LED's to give very good light output because of the RF content in the output. To test the radiant level, use a capacitor to store the discharged energy from the coil and measure the voltage level. The higher the DC voltage reached, the higher the radiant produced. Too much input voltage could saturate the coil and reduce the radiant level. Because of the high RF content, one wire output working is possile to light LED's.

Hoppy

[Bodkins]

Hi Hoppy
when charging a cap connect a ground to the negative it help the radiant charging.
YouTube - Maybe negative resistor

hope it helps
B

[slayer007]

I know I posted this a page ago but make sure you use a ferrite core NOT the powered iron.
With the ferrite cores I can light a 90v neon off my secondary winding Using just a 1.2v AA.
I have to use a analog meter to read it after it goes through a rectifier.
My cheap digital meters wont read it they just go nuts.
I dont know if it's pulsing to fast or if the meters are seeing some of the HV back spike but they don't work to read it.

I have a colored toroids that is powered iron wound the same way and I can NOT get any voltage out of the secondary coil.
It reads 0 volts.

So use FERRITE cores your BEMF will be twice as high and then your secondary winding will to.

Now I thinking about taking the iron core out of my pulse generator and replacing it with a ferrite core.
If it makes this big of a differance with the JT it should with that allso.

[StevanC]

Hi Stevan C
Battery charging and battery conditioning (energising) are different things and require different waveforms. A high frequency, high radiant content waveform will also charge a battery but not as efficiently as a , low radiant, low frequency pulsed waveform. Also, try connecting the charging battery neg terminal to 0V ground instead of the pos supply rail as is the convention with Bedini energisers. I find battery charging is more efficient with a 0V return and conditioning best with a return to the pos supply rail.

Hoppy

You mean to let the supplying battery power both the coil and the receiving battery?
And additionally let the coil strike over the receiving battery?

or?

[Joit]

@Slayer you talk about the Ring- or Cylinder Cores, or Iron and Ferritcores in general?

[slayer007]

@Slayer you talk about the Ring- or Cylinder Cores, or Iron and Ferritcores in general?

Yes the colored toroid cores are made of iron powder.
They don't work as near as good.
When you make one make sure you get a toroid core thats ferrite.

[Joit]

Duuh,
I am allready wind one, but its a colored Ringcore. Thanks for warning.

[slayer007]

They do work but the ferrite ones work twice as good.