Big Joule Theif

[BenTec]

Hello all, I've read the whole thread, yes, right to here were I post now.

The first like 15 pages are all bout Slayers007's JT, and people making improvements on this circuit, which is easy and great to follow since the last diagram always was the best with the latest additions so it was easier to follow and see improvements clearly.

Then people just started mixing and bringing in new circuits new ideas on all these different JT's and Slayers JT seems forgotten by now. I would have prefered people keep the thread on topic. I really don't mean it bad, believe me! But... it's just my personal preference and I find very confusing.

Which is the most efficient JT by now?

Is this the best?
Pulsed Inverted Joule Thief (Lid Motor Modification dated 03/03/2009, but i think he meant to say 2010)

Thank you very much.
BenTec

[Lidmotor]

The best circuit?

Hello all, I've read the whole thread, yes, right to here were I post now.

The first like 15 pages are all bout Slayers007's JT, and people making improvements on this circuit, which is easy and great to follow since the last diagram always was the best with the latest additions so it was easier to follow and see improvements clearly.

Then people just started mixing and bringing in new circuits new ideas on all these different JT's and Slayers JT seems forgotten by now. I would have prefered people keep the thread on topic. I really don't mean it bad, believe me! But... it's just my personal preference and I find very confusing.

Which is the most efficient JT by now?

Is this the best?
Pulsed Inverted Joule Thief (Lid Motor Modification dated 03/03/2009, but i think he meant to say 2010)

Thank you very much.
BenTec

I don't know if you would call it the "best" but it was the one that I ended up using in a boxed version on my sailboat last season. I called it the "Halo Light" because I used a round Fl that put out a ton of light. It is a field tested design that worked well in a dark anchorage on a rolling 32' sailboat.

Here is the video I made last year of the finished light:

YouTube - Lidmotor's Channel

In the real world of use on the boat, the light did not work out as a "charger" light. I would turn it on full bright when it got dark and have to charge it back up with the small solar panel the next day. The charging aspect just didn't work as I had hoped. Ash has made a version of this design that encludes a Bedini Fan charger. That one is actually a better and more refined circuit.


Lidmotor

[BenTec]

I don't know if you would call it the "best" but it was the one that I ended up using in a boxed version on my sailboat last season. I called it the "Halo Light" because I used a round Fl that put out a ton of light. It is a field tested design that worked well in a dark anchorage on a rolling 32' sailboat.

Here is the video I made last year of the finished light:

YouTube - Lidmotor's Channel

In the real world of use on the boat, the light did not work out as a "charger" light. I would turn it on full bright when it got dark and have to charge it back up with the small solar panel the next day. The charging aspect just didn't work as I had hoped. Ash has made a version of this design that encludes a Bedini Fan charger. That one is actually a better and more refined circuit.


Lidmotor

Yes correct, look at your diagram date in the video! This is exactly the one I meant, see that it's dated 03/03/2009 ! I thought that was the best version of the initical Slayers007's circuit.

I will investigate on this circuit see if I am able to make a improvement to it.

By the way, do you have a link to Ash's Slayer007 Bedini Fan Remix Edition?

Thanks,
Ben

[BenTec]

I forgot to say, yesterday I bought

6x TOSHIBA 2N3055 1H (JAPAN)
6x CDIL 2N2222A P6
6x CEDE B4.7K LIN
6x 1N4007
6x 1K Resistors

I was not able to find the exact parts nor the ferrite rings, I hate this island!

Greets
Ben

[Lidmotor]

Circuits

Yes correct, look at your diagram date in the video! This is exactly the one I meant, see that it's dated 03/03/2009 ! I thought that was the best version of the initical Slayers007's circuit.

I will investigate on this circuit see if I am able to make a improvement to it.

By the way, do you have a link to Ash's Slayer007 Bedini Fan Remix Edition?

Thanks,
Ben

Check out page 14 & 15 of this thread. The circuits got pretty complicated at this point but we were on a quest to get the most bang for the buck. Alot of fun happened along the way.

Lidmotor

[BenTec]

Hello,

I've asked a mate of mine if he knew where i could buy some ferrite rings nearby. He told me for what I needed em, so I explained him and send him the diagram we were talking about before (the one of the halo light).

He said that it is very interesting, but there is much to improve and that the circuit is very similar to one of the an emergency light. I can't remember everything he told me that should be changed. He explained a lot of stuff that got me a bit confused at the end of the call, but I'm glad he did, I've learned something.

EDIT: Now I remember, he told me that for each circle the frequency was getting higher, but everytime the frequency goes higher there was an middle frequency between that could blow up some components, and he told me that using CFL is not the way to go. Because it seems like this circuit will each circle highen the frequency, and he told me if it reaches 1Ghz the CFL would emmit microwave, so he told me to use LED's instead. And some other stuff...

I asked him if he wanted to join the forum but, he told me that he was busy at the moment. Hopefully I get him to add his thoughts and improvements to the circuit.

Greets
Ben

[winn1971]

hello guys! i'm a newbie in this JT experiments. I've managed to do my first time replication of the basic JT LED lite courtesy of the makezine video. I then moved a step further and tried replicating lidmotor's inverted joule thief circuit using a ferrite rod (aka antenna bar, as in known here in my place) in an attempt to lite a CFL but the secondary winding can barely lite a single LED.
the setup i did is as below:
19T, 19T using a #18 or #20 enameled wire (unsure of size as it came from a small PSU toroid), 500 turns secondary winding (#26 wire wound in 5 layers, i.e., 100 turns per layer wound back & forth)
the primary/trigger and the secondary windings were wound side by side in the greater part of a 8cm x 10mm dia antenna bar
2N2222A transistor
1.5V AA battery source (aslo tried 2x1.5V=3V)
i used a pot at the base of the transistor to tweak the LED brightness.

have also tried modifying the circuit using Slayer's 2N2222 driving a 2N3055 both with only a 1.5V source and a 3V source but just the same, it hardly lites the LED to a decent brightness level.

What am i missing???

i can't get a big toroid locally to try so i'm hoping i could use a rod for my experiments.

i hope you can point me in the right direction and tell me if i'm doing something obviously wrong but can't see or figure out.

thanks.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, well this explains a lot. It seems for awhile now that i've been damaging my transistors due to not having a neon protector across collector and emitter. I didn't realize they were partially damaged since they still functioned well, so i thought. The damage i assume occurred when tuning the pot on the joule thief or bedini oscillator when running fluoro's off the secondary output. Now as i tune, i can see at some points the neon light up, which would be bad for the transistor as 3 damaged ones shows. Now that i have a normally functioning transistor, the joule thief circuit is working far better with better output and very little heat compared to previously. Here is a couple of pics of my oscillator running a halo light at 6 volts @ .4A or 2.5 watts.
Imageshack - biggyjoulethief.jpg - Uploaded by LightForce1
Imageshack - fluororing.jpg - Uploaded by LightForce1
peace love light
Tyson

[SkyWatcher]

Hi Folks, Ok it appears that 12volts after all is still heating up my joule thief circuit. Can anyone help me solve this heat issue with my joule thief circuit. at 6volts i see no problems with heat, however at 12v or greater, the transistor heats up when powering a fluoro bulb off the secondary, however it barely heats up when charging a 12v battery off the primaries flyback with diode. My guess is that when powering fluoro off secondary, that some of the collapse is induced into feedback winding of the bifilar and creating an issue at the base of transistor. Where as when charging a separate 12v battery off primary flyback diode, almost all the collapse is used up in charging battery leaving little to induce in the feedback winding. Hopefully some can help me understand what needs to be done with the circuit to prevent this heating. Thanks.
peace love light
Tyson

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, nevermind, it seems now that I am using a non damaged transistor that the 'Big Boy Variant' circuit Ash posted awhile ago is working great now.
peace love light
Tyson

[jeanna]

hello guys! i'm a newbie in this JT experiments. I've managed to do my first time replication of the basic JT LED lite courtesy of the makezine video. I then moved a step further and tried replicating lidmotor's inverted joule thief circuit using a ferrite rod (aka antenna bar, as in known here in my place) in an attempt to lite a CFL but the secondary winding can barely lite a single LED.
the setup i did is as below:
19T, 19T using a #18 or #20 enameled wire (unsure of size as it came from a small PSU toroid), 500 turns secondary winding (#26 wire wound in 5 layers, i.e., 100 turns per layer wound back & forth)
the primary/trigger and the secondary windings were wound side by side in the greater part of a 8cm x 10mm dia antenna bar
2N2222A transistor
1.5V AA battery source (aslo tried 2x1.5V=3V)
i used a pot at the base of the transistor to tweak the LED brightness.

have also tried modifying the circuit using Slayer's 2N2222 driving a 2N3055 both with only a 1.5V source and a 3V source but just the same, it hardly lites the LED to a decent brightness level.

What am i missing???

i can't get a big toroid locally to try so i'm hoping i could use a rod for my experiments.

i hope you can point me in the right direction and tell me if i'm doing something obviously wrong but can't see or figure out.

thanks.

Maybe you are using a choke from the psu?

I suggest that you get another good hi perm toroid and wind your own as you did with the makezine one.
It is asking a lot of a second-time jt maker to light a cfl.
There are a lot of elements that can make the thing work poorly or wonderfully, and you need to get your hands into this to learn what they are. (my opinion)
It is very likely that 19T,19T is way too many turns. If you need more than 10 I am sure you have a choke.
If you have a choke you can make a lot of turns and light 1 led.
With a high permeability toroid, you will blast them with 1/4 the number of turns.
For instance, I have used one recently that used 2T at the base and 9T t the collector.
It has lit a fluoro tube with 84 turns on a secondary! I am using that now to light a single led from a plant battery.

The range is really big and fiddling will teach you more than anything I can say.
(except keep trying!)

jeanna

[winn1971]

Maybe you are using a choke from the psu?

I suggest that you get another good hi perm toroid and wind your own as you did with the makezine one.
It is asking a lot of a second-time jt maker to light a cfl.
There are a lot of elements that can make the thing work poorly or wonderfully, and you need to get your hands into this to learn what they are. (my opinion)
It is very likely that 19T,19T is way too many turns. If you need more than 10 I am sure you have a choke.
If you have a choke you can make a lot of turns and light 1 led.
With a high permeability toroid, you will blast them with 1/4 the number of turns.
For instance, I have used one recently that used 2T at the base and 9T t the collector.
It has lit a fluoro tube with 84 turns on a secondary! I am using that now to light a single led from a plant battery.

The range is really big and fiddling will teach you more than anything I can say.
(except keep trying!)

jeanna

Hi Jeanna, i used a toroid for my first JT but for the second one i used a ROD as i dont have access to a big toroid. what i noticed is when my trigger/primary bifilar coil was wound beside the 500T secondary, my LED off the C-E connection lit very dimly and same result when I move it to the secondary. when i transferred the trig/pri coil on top of the secondary coil (can't even remember how many turns i did, i think 3T for base and 7T or 8T for the collector) i managed to measure 120Vac output from the secondary coil with a 1.5V AA input/source. i tried 2x1.5V AA and i got 230Vac max. not yet enough for a CFL or fluoro tube and my 2n3055 transistor gets hot so to the extent possible i'd like to stick to a single 1.2V-1.5V AA source.
i think in order to increase the Vout further, i can do one or a combination of the following:
1. reduce the number or turns of the trigger/pri coil so the transformation ratio increases (??)
2. wind another secondary and connect in series with the first one to increase the effective turns and therefore the Vout.
3. unwind the 500T secondary and make a new 1000T to replace it. (costly!)
4. What else can i try?

i wish i have a toroid but i dont so i am trying to make something work using a ferrite rod. it is the only thing readily available from where i am. toroids from pc psu are very small compared to what most of you are using. the biggest dia toroid i am able to get from a psu is roughly 3/4" or so outer dia. (yellow in color).
is there a thread dedicated for rod-equipped JT circuits that i can browse? rod does not produce a high pitch "whine" like a toroid does, but why is it that the toroid seems to be a better used material for JT experimenters and very minimal exploration on the rod idea?
tia for your help and clarifications.

[jeanna]

Hi Jeanna, i used a toroid for my first JT but for the second one i used a ROD as i dont have access to a big toroid. what i noticed is when my trigger/primary bifilar coil was wound beside the 500T secondary, my LED off the C-E connection lit very dimly and same result when I move it to the secondary. when i transferred the trig/pri coil on top of the secondary coil (can't even remember how many turns i did, i think 3T for base and 7T or 8T for the collector) i managed to measure 120Vac output from the secondary coil with a 1.5V AA input/source. i tried 2x1.5V AA and i got 230Vac max. not yet enough for a CFL or fluoro tube and my 2n3055 transistor gets hot so to the extent possible i'd like to stick to a single 1.2V-1.5V AA source.
i think in order to increase the Vout further, i can do one or a combination of the following:
1. reduce the number or turns of the trigger/pri coil so the transformation ratio increases (??)
2. wind another secondary and connect in series with the first one to increase the effective turns and therefore the Vout.
3. unwind the 500T secondary and make a new 1000T to replace it. (costly!)
4. What else can i try?

i wish i have a toroid but i dont so i am trying to make something work using a ferrite rod. it is the only thing readily available from where i am. toroids from pc psu are very small compared to what most of you are using. the biggest dia toroid i am able to get from a psu is roughly 3/4" or so outer dia. (yellow in color).
is there a thread dedicated for rod-equipped JT circuits that i can browse? rod does not produce a high pitch "whine" like a toroid does, but why is it that the toroid seems to be a better used material for JT experimenters and very minimal exploration on the rod idea?
tia for your help and clarifications.

Hi Winn,
My apologies for the delay,

I guess there might be a way to salvage this yet.
Do you have a pot as the base resistor?
If you turn it very very slowly with a scope on the ends of your secondary, you can watch the volts pop when it goes into resonance.
Sometimes you need to do this a few times to get the right spot.
Sometimes there are 2 spots. I always pick the one that has a higher ohm value because it will use less mA.

The thing I understand about the rod is that it will lose the magnetic flux more readily than the toroid. When it moves inside the toroid it cannot escape and that makes the effect compound itself.
I believe it is this compounding that is what makes this thing great.

Forget the yellow one. It is probably powdered and will never go high enough.

The other thing to say to you is that not all transistors are equal. I had someone tell me that he had seen as much as a 100 times difference in 2 transistors of the same name. This is a horrifying thought.
But even a 10 per cent difference could make the volts too low.

I also think you need to recognise that you could be choking it.
I do not know what to tell you to remedy that.
When I realized I had choked a toroid, I would unwind a third of it then wind it back up
1- away from the ends and
2- in a scrambled way.
That always worked if it was choked.
A trick I found that works on toroids is to make the first layers a little wider spaced so that when you get to the second or scramble layer, you can pull an occasional wire right down to touch the toroid.

In all honesty, I must say that the cfl is not as bright as the led lights.
I made 2 videos that showed circuits that ended up in globe lamp fixtures.
Both of these had multiple strings of leds soldered in series put parallel to each other.
That was because I didn't have enough volts to light more than the series string (6 or 7) but I could way amplify the light by adding 4 or 6 strings in parallel.
those lamps are in great shape and still light very brightly. I use them in my camper for 4-5 days at a time.
The best deal for brightness/secondary volts is that Lights of america bulb with 20 white leds in series.
I think you have what you need for this and if you can get to a wallmart (I know ) you will find this is a great solution.

OK I don't want to say too much at one time.
Try these things and let me know.

jeanna

OH
you cannot use 120v on one led.
You may have damaged your led. Perhaps a fresh series of them will help.
Allow 7v per led on a secondary, and put them (17) in a breadboard in series.
Check for polarity because the wires will work better one way than the other way.
Starting with all the leds put the wires into progressively fewer and fewer leds.
This will
keep the leds from blowing and
Show you the number of leds for the best brightness.

[winn1971]

@ jeanna - any tips/help on how to easily identify a "good" toroid from hacked pc psu &/or pc/tv boards? this would greatly help me in my quest for a better jt.
will surely look into ur other suggestions, investigate further and report back.

[teslaproject]

Try it

@ jeanna - any tips/help on how to easily identify a "good" toroid from hacked pc psu &/or pc/tv boards? this would greatly help me in my quest for a better jt.
will surely look into ur other suggestions, investigate further and report back.

Winn

Jeanna might have a better handy hint but I find that nothing beats just throwing a few winds of transformer wire on it (the toroid) to test the permeability. The better the perm, the fewer the turns it should take to reach resonance.

If you have one toroid that you know the perm of that you can compare to some salvaged parts (of the same diameter) then you have yourself a good ballpark. Other than that, just looking at them is really no good. Funny enough though, after awhile I can usually tell their quality from the region of circuit they are taken from etc (for instance, the little dark grey ones in cfl that need to boost power are usually hi perm). If they haven't been coated they will be quite dark grey and heavier than the type used for chokes.

Rather than guessing though, head off to Electronics Goldmine online store and buy yourself a pack of 5 Japanese ones for 1$...it's great value and they are super quality. What the hey...here is the link -
Medium Toroidal Ferrite Core (Pkg of 5)-The Electronic Goldmine

Regards

TP