Big Joule Theif

[totoalas]

Big joule Thief

@NickZ,

I have not tried to use more than one secondary toroid. But I think your
idea is good. One thing though, the center coil (L3) needs to be tuned.
Too few turns and no output at all. To many turns and poor output.
I'm using the positive voltage "spike" every time the transistor is trigged
on, as you can see in the drawing, via a diode to trigger the coupling
coil (L3). This way the input enery can ONLY be transfeered to the output
at each power coil triggering. The polarity of the L3 also needs to be
correct. Connect the L3 the wrong way and no or poor output is the result.

The two toroid with a coil in the middle is an AC switch. AC (or pulsed DC)
can ONLY transfer to the second toroid if the coil is shorted out. No work
need to be done on the coil since you can actually use a on/off switch
for this. So my idea was to use the forward voltage spike when the transistor
turns on for this switching since we do not need to provide any power to
do so. I hope my english is good enough to explain what is happening.

The toroids do not need to be of the same size. You can actually use a
larger toroid for the output (the right one). Like I said before, the importaint
thing is the center coil (L3). It MUST have the correct LOW Ohm =
thick wire, but still HIGH enough inductance for the voltage pulse.
Best way is by trial end error. Begin with enough wire to make many turns
and then remove turns until the voltage get really high at the output.
If the voltage starts to go down then you have removed too many turns.

I do not make videos but here is a picture where I lit up a 25 Watt 230VAC
normal light bulb.



Here is a 15 Watt 230VAC Osram Tube lit up to almost full.
(Input usage was 15 Volt @ 0,86A.)



My circuit enclousere is an old data transfer switch metal box. LOL
If you have more questions then do not hesitate to ask.

Alex.

Hi Alex
just wondering if an E ferrite or iron core from transformer can substitute to your toroids
YouTube - TROS -- "hf generator" III

as always 7 stars


cheers

totoalas

[Tectalabyss]

Sorry I couldn't help more

Hi Tec,
Tnx for the suggestions. I had my fingers on the output and not a tingle. lol
I'll try the higher pot. Like I said, its oscillating, but weird. Normally I have no LED on, I can bring it from nothing thru dim to full then it drops to off. This ones on all the time. It may need a higher pot due to the high kickback from all the winds. Odd it would be like that with no secondary connected at all, just open.
Might be a hot or cold toroid. At this point I can't say. I have enough to not have to worry abt stripping it.

Hello Vaporizer and all.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help.Nickz could be right ? One thing I did want to share was BGmicro Has some great deals on Toroid s, Transistors check them out. I've bought from them and they are OK.My power has been going off we are in the middle of a winter storm I've had something like Vaporizer's Trouble but for the life of me I cannot remember what it was Thanks. Tec

[Groundloop]

@totoalas,

No, you will need two closed path cores of some sort with a little
separation in between. The center coil is then used as a magnetic
switch (for AC or pulsed DC) between the two cores. The toroid
cores are perfect for this circuit. Best toroid core material is Ferrite.
I think that powdered Iron toroid cores will work also, but I have not
tried that.

Alex.

[Vaporizer]

Hi all,
Well I did all the tests suggested. I made a bridge rectifier and it shows 230vdc. Not much from the ratio and the fact it has 650 turns on the secondary. I replaced everything new in the circuit. Same symptoms. Put in a larger pot and did get it to act more normal on the ocillation. It squeals very nice and light loads of LEDs on the primary side.

I got my shipment in from Goldmine! The best part of today. lol
The 8mm super bright LEDs are nice and I also got 10 of there 5 for a $1 nice core. I got 2 of the blue ones to try too. They are thicker and look promising.
My wide assortment of transistors came too. I subbed 1 of every power transistor I have in that circuit and to no avail. Even the MJE3055. I moved the used transistors back to smaller circuits and they work fine as new ones. It seems the 230v that is present has nothing to back it up. I finally got a bare noticeable tingle from it wetting 2 fingers. Same hand. hahaha
I put 1 LED across the 230v and it lit an LED(1) and never blew it? I'm beginning to doubt the permeability of these cores. No specs available.
I'm just amazed that they work so well as a BJT using just the primary. I wound the primary layer of the secondary and wrapped it with tape. Then I wrapped back over that layer. I read its called "windshield wiper" style. I did separate the 2 layers and they read 180vdc on the 1st layer and 150vdc on the secondary. The secondary has less winds so that seems normal. They don't get hot at all unless I go up to 2.5v. Above that it doesnt oscillate. I thought they may work at 12v and may have to be dedicated to that. I also went to 22ga primary wires hoping to shoot more current through it. No diff.

Still open to suggestions while I go reread some things on larger toroid circuits.

[Galvatron]

PNP connection

Sorry to butt in. I'm new here and I have a question. I have some PNP transistors and I want to use one in my circuit. I have searched high and low for a diagram for a PNP configuration and could not find one. I made my own and posted it here. Is it correct?

[Vaporizer]

Actually, you can use the PNP by reversing the battery and the LED.
I saw a pic on it. I'll see if I can find it. The coil doesnt mind, its the semiconductor parts that have to flow the right direction.

Ok, I found the quote:
"When using a PNP, you said to reverse emitter with collector. But the emitter and collector of a PNP should be connected to the same places as for the NPN transistor. The only thing that needs to be reversed is the LED. The battery must be reversed, negative connects to the coil leads."
Here is the link to the page: Joule Thief | Savel brain dump in English!

The NPN is used normally because it's more efficient.

[Tectalabyss]

removed My reply

Actually, you can use the PNP by reversing the battery and the LED.
I saw a pic on it. I'll see if I can find it. The coil doesnt mind, its the semiconductor parts that have to flow the right direction.

Ok, I found the quote:
"When using a PNP, you said to reverse emitter with collector. But the emitter and collector of a PNP should be connected to the same places as for the NPN transistor. The only thing that needs to be reversed is the LED. The battery must be reversed, negative connects to the coil leads."
Here is the link to the page: Joule Thief | Savel brain dump in English!

The NPN is used normally because it's more efficient.

Hello Vaporizer and all.
I removed My reply so has not to cause confusion and I was wrong anyway, ah you know what they say ( there's no fool like an old fool ) Lol.
Thanks.Tec

[Vaporizer]

I didn't mean it to sound bad Tec. Since most don't have a background in the field and all you see are NPN...it would be a fair assumption.
I had forgot that the efficiency of NPN's were better......lol
I would look it up, but I'm sure the purists have and thats why they are die hard NPN'ers. Even if you gave up 5% for a PNP, that's still 5%.

I read some last night and I found that every 2" & larger use 20 winds each side for the primary. 40 total. Hmmmmm.....much more than my small ones took. That will kick the current up to a workable level but the ratio will drop the overall volts. So....I may be doing a 3 or 4th layer.

[Tectalabyss]

I didn't take it that way

I didn't mean it to sound bad Tec. Since most don't have a background in the field and all you see are NPN...it would be a fair assumption.
I had forgot that the efficiency of NPN's were better......lol
I would look it up, but I'm sure the purists have and thats why they are die hard NPN'ers. Even if you gave up 5% for a PNP, that's still 5%.

I read some last night and I found that every 2" & larger use 20 winds each side for the primary. 40 total. Hmmmmm.....much more than my small ones took. That will kick the current up to a workable level but the ratio will drop the overall volts. So....I may be doing a 3 or 4th layer.

@Vaporizer.I really didn't take it that way.And I am glad you made it a lot clearer than I tried to.I am here to learn and help but if I tell something thats not right I'll be the first to admit it. Tec

[Galvatron]

Actually, you can use the PNP by reversing the battery and the LED.
I saw a pic on it. I'll see if I can find it. The coil doesnt mind, its the semiconductor parts that have to flow the right direction.
The NPN is used normally because it's more efficient.

Thanks for the link. Funny thing is, I am a picture person. I'm a graphic artist and I think in hieroglyphics not words. Some kind of right/left brain thing.
Anyway here is my translation of what you guys said. Is it correct?

As for efficiency I figured from my searching people have this thing nailed down pretty good. I just want to take good notes, I'm still learning.

[Prio]

@ Vaporizer

Did you tune your toroid?

check at:

Jule Thief reply 13424
Jule Thief reply 13458, ..59

Good luck!

[Vaporizer]

@ Galvatron,
That's it!

prio,
I haven't done anything since my last post except sneeze and blow my nose.
I will read the links. Thanks!

Edit: I had read that , pulled my old BK scope out and the brightness control seems bad. I'm going to put a bridge rectifier on the core secondary and see what it reads. Thanks agn.

[Galvatron]

@ Galvatron,
That's it!

Thanks man! I got sucked into this energy craze and i'm hooked.

[cikljamas]

What do you say about this :
this device drains 9 mAmps from 12 V battery, is it good result
IYHO ?
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...tly-device.jpg
Let see if we could see this picture better like this :
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...tly-device.jpg

[Watson]

Hello Vaporizer and all.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help.Nickz could be right ? One thing I did want to share was BGmicro Has some great deals on Toroid s, Transistors check them out. I've bought from them and they are OK.My power has been going off we are in the middle of a winter storm I've had something like Vaporizer's Trouble but for the life of me I cannot remember what it was Thanks. Tec

I just checked BGmicro and found only five toroids, They categorize them as ferrite, but if I remember correctly, the T means it's iron core, not ferrite. Of the five, only one was suitable for JTs, the COL1074 at three for a buck (actually 99 cents), but that's not really a bargain. And the size is rather large for a JT, I stick with the 3/8"or 9mm, or the half inch O.D. cores.

I got a bunch of 1 inch cores for 5 for a dollar from surplussales.com, and they're high permeability, which is good for a JT. I can wind a coil of a few turns of heavy wire and it's got plenty of inductance.

I found that if I buy a few from a surplus sales, it's most likely they won't have any more of that type after they have sold out. And I often find that I can get parts cheaper from a distributor such as Mouser. I got the Fair-Rite 2673002402 cores from them for 12 cents apiece, and they work great for JTs.

I didn't see any transistor bargains ar BGmicro, except for the house numbered 2222's at 1000 for $13, but their leads are all chopped off.