Workings of the gray tube

[lamare]

I just discovered some PDF's on the site of NASA:

NASA: Advanced Energetics for Aeronautical Applications:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...2003038530.pdf

VOL II:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...2005172301.pdf

Volume II has some 40 pages about ZPE and free energy. It mentions
Lindemann, Tesla and EV Gray.


With respect to Grays tube, I think I have an idea about how it works.

As you probably know, it consists of a thin rod surrounded by a copper
grid. The rod is being charged across a spark-gap, according to the
NASA document to a voltage of about 3 kV. Prof Meyl says the Maxwell
equations, the basics for electro-magnetic engineering, allow for
longitudinal waves to exist. However this is disputed by Bruhn:
http://www.scientificexploration.org...15.2_bruhn.pdf

... on the assumption that no free charge particles exist in vacuum.

Edit: The original pdf appears to be gone. It is still available at:
http://web.archive.org/web/200701241...15.2_bruhn.pdf


Still, Eric Dollard shows in his videos that longitudinal waves *do*
exist (and they are also mentioned in the NASA report), so there must
be free charge particles available in the vacuum. Now Quantum theory
says that electron-positron pairs are constantly popping in and out of
existence in the vacuum and that these pairs are "short-lived". See
for example the following article by Apollo astronaut Dr. Edgar
Mitchell:
Quantum Theory, The Quantum Hologram and Zero Point Energy

"The Heisenberg uncertainty principle unambiguously demands that
short-lived virtual photons pop in and out of existence (along with
positron-electron pairs). The inability of Helium to solidify even at
absolute zero temperature is attributed to zero-point energy. "

So, longitudinal waves *do* exist *and* most likely the the free charge
particles those waves are being transmitted trough are
positron-electron pairs popping in and out of existence.

Now, in nuclear power plants what you basically do is smash an
atom-nucleus with a big hammer, so it dis-integrates and energy is being
released. Now, if there are a large number of positron-electron pairs
(temporarily) floating around in vacuum, couldn't you just give a
similar smash to these, so they are separated from each other and do
not eliminate one another after a short time?

Well, I'd say a single, strong longitudinal wave-front could do the
trick. If you would be able to emit a *single* pressure wave front
from the core rod, then you might be able to separate a significant
number of positron-electron pairs, and capture them with a copper
grid hence delivering energy, more energy then you put in, just like
in a nuclear power plant.

So, how could you make a single, strong longitudinal wave front?

Well, you would need to get a sudden rise of the potential of the core
rod, without too much of electric waves going back and forth trough
the core. So, you basically don't want any current going trough the
core rod, just a sudden rise of potential. That means that pulling
sparks out of a coil probably won't work, since a coil doesn't deliver
a constant potential but a constant current. Therefore, I would say a
discharge capacitor would probably work better then a coil.

Since you want the electrons in the rod to move as little as possible,
you'd have to arrange your setup to pull a spark of a duration as
short as possible and you don't want the voltage to be too high,
because then you'd probably get all kinds of waves going back and
fourth trough the core rod, which might disturb the single wave front
we want.

To sum it up: you want to just "ping" the rod, so that its potential
rises sharply (and stays high for a while), but you don't want to hit
it with a "large hammer" causing all kinds of vibrations and waves,
because then you might not be transmitting a single "pressure" like
wave-front anymore, which might kill the whole effect.

Looking forward to your thoughts on this,

-- Arend Lammertink --

[Inquorate]

Sounds good

From a conventional point of view, ie quantum physics, this sounds like a convenient description of what would be seen by a quantum physicist as what is going on in a gray tube. But it still doesn't say why it happens, and for that IMHO we need to look at aether physics

:-)

[lamare]

QM vs aether physics

In the end, aether physics and quantum mechanics is all about wave equations, because the quantum states an electron can have in for example a hydrogen molecule originate in wave equations. Electron orbits can only exist for an orbit that has a path length such that a we get a standing electro-magnetic wave.

So, the core rod most be acting as an antenna transmitting EM waves. If you take the analogy of water, you have transversal waves traveling across the surface and longitudinal pressure (sound-like) waves traveling trough the water itself. If you take a hydraulic cilinder filled with a fluid, you will get a pressure wave if you suddenly apply a high pressure to the piston. So, in the gray tube, you will get a pressure EM wave traveling outward of the rod if you suddenly apply a high potential (a high voltage, the equivalence of pressure) to the rod.

If that pressure-wave is strong enough, it will separate some of the positon-electron pairs "poping in and out of existence" in the vacuum surrounding the rod, so we get free electrons traveling in the direction of the wave and free positrons traveling the other directions. Since these electrons carry charge, they will charge the grid tube once arriving there, which can be used as normal electric energy.

IIRC, the effect utilised in the gray tube has been described by Tesla as "super charging", the effect that he could charge conductors at a large distance, the basis for his wireless power transmission patents.


The funny thing is that in creating a single pressure wave, all you have to do is rise the potential of the "floating" rod, which costs you almost no energy, since it only has a small parasite capacitance towards the earth, whereas in order to transmit conventional transversal EM waves, you continuously have to pull the electrons in the antenna back and forth, requiring a whole load of energy.

[Sephiroth]

Amazing find! Well done!



and

[lamare]

One more thing..

@Sephiroth: Thx. Let's hope this turns out to be the answer to the mystery. That would open a lot of doors....

Of course, when I say "high" potential, and "rise", I should have said "high negative", because if we want to push electrons towards the grids, we will need a negative charged rod, otherwise the electrons will be attracted and not be pushed away.

And btw: I suspect you don really need a spark gap, just a very sharp "rise" time. Of course in Tesla's era modern electronics were not available, so he used spark gaps to get a sharp rise in portential.

[Electrotek]

In the end, aether physics and quantum mechanics is all about wave equations, because the quantum states an electron can have in for example a hydrogen molecule originate in wave equations. Electron orbits can only exist for an orbit that has a path length such that a we get a standing electro-magnetic wave.

So, the core rod most be acting as an antenna transmitting EM waves. If you take the analogy of water, you have transversal waves traveling across the surface and longitudinal pressure (sound-like) waves traveling trough the water itself. If you take a hydraulic cilinder filled with a fluid, you will get a pressure wave if you suddenly apply a high pressure to the piston. So, in the gray tube, you will get a pressure EM wave traveling outward of the rod if you suddenly apply a high potential (a high voltage, the equivalence of pressure) to the rod.

If that pressure-wave is strong enough, it will separate some of the positon-electron pairs "poping in and out of existence" in the vacuum surrounding the rod, so we get free electrons traveling in the direction of the wave and free positrons traveling the other directions. Since these electrons carry charge, they will charge the grid tube once arriving there, which can be used as normal electric energy.

IIRC, the effect utilised in the gray tube has been described by Tesla as "super charging", the effect that he could charge conductors at a large distance, the basis for his wireless power transmission patents.


The funny thing is that in creating a single pressure wave, all you have to do is rise the potential of the "floating" rod, which costs you almost no energy, since it only has a small parasite capacitance towards the earth, whereas in order to transmit conventional transversal EM waves, you continuously have to pull the electrons in the antenna back and forth, requiring a whole load of energy.

Electron movement is towards the central electrode, from the grid. This pulls electrons from the positive pole of the passive battery, recharging it, and from the motor side of the recovery capacitor. This capacitor's polarity is shown in the Series 3 Circuit, which is typical.

http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?i...circuitkj2.jpg

[lamare]

@Electrotek:

From that schematic, it appears as though the rod is connected to a capacitor charged at 5 kV, and the spark gap is connected to the commutator, hence when a spark is being pulled, the capacitor is discharged and the rod will make a sudden (negative) potential shift from 5 kV to 12 V, almost 0 in comparison to the 5 kV. Of course, this assumes a high internal resistance in the 5kV converter, allowing the capacitor to discharge, or the converter to be disconnected during the discharge cycle.

If that were true, the diodes near the commutator are the wrong way...

If you would reverse those diodes, you would get a more or less decent current from the 5 kV capacitor across the spark gap towards the battery, indeed, charging the battery and at the same time preventing unwanted vibrations of the core, since the current has a direct path from the charged capacitor to the ground, trough the battery.

However, according to my theory, you would end up with a negative charged grid charged with electrons originating from the vacuum, while if the electrons were "pulled" from the grid, you would end up with a positive charged grid.
That should not be to difficult to verify in an experiment.

[lamare]

Tesla patent

I have just been reading Tesla paten no. 645.576 - system of transmission of electrical energy.

There is one remarkable observation in there:

"It is furthermore, a fact that such discharges of extreme tensions, approximating those of lightning, manifest a marked tendency to pass upwards away from the ground."

This suggests waves of a electrical character, movement of charge, that might be influenced by the earth magnetic field.


Another remarkable thing is that he sucked the air out of his transmission device:

"... while the free end was led to a terminal placed in the rarefied air stratum trough which the energy was to be transmitted, which was contained in an insulating-tube of a length of fifty feet or more, within which a barometric pressure varying from about one hundred and twenty to one hundred and fifty millimeters was maintained by means of a mechanical suction-pump."

In this patent, he also talks about conductance of gasses at low pressure.

All this suggests that longitudinal waves might be easier to generate in vacuum or in an environment of low pressure. Since Tesla was talking about millions of Volts, and Gray's tube works with kilo-Volts, this suggests that Gray's tube might have had a (near)-vacuum inside.

It would be interesting to know wether or not grays tube was working in a (near)-vacuum or not.

Anyway, if I go back to my theory, it does make sense to get gas-molecules out of the tube, because if free electrons and positrons are sucked out of the vacuum due to a shockwave, you don't want them to bounce into gas atoms and become useless.

[Jetijs]

Good point about vacuum. Guys that are working on Gray tubes, use water spark circuit and this circuit is makes a spark different from an ordinary spark. An ordinary spark will get weaker and weaker as the air/gas pressure goes up. But water spark goes bigger in intensity when using higher pressures. Here is a video that demonstrates it:
YouTube - compression presssure intensifies plasma spark

[lamare]

IIRC, in the gray tube drawings in his patent, the spark-gap was outside the "holders" for the rod. That might mean that the spark-gap was in normal air-pressure, while the "transmitting" part of the rod was under vacuum.
It can also be that a low-pressure was present in the whole tube. Enough gas for a spark, but not too much to be able to get a longitudinal wave front.

After all, if my theory is correct, you just want a sudden potential change of the rod., which should not take a lot of energy, so a moderate spark might be enough.
It's the sudden shift in potential that counts, not the amount of energy banged into the rod...

[nat1971a]

i like this line of thinking. The gray tube could well be in a vacuum.

[Inquorate]

Adding to my wish list:

1 laboratory vacuum pump

[gmeat]

IIRC, in the gray tube drawings in his patent, the spark-gap was outside the "holders" for the rod. That might mean that the spark-gap was in normal air-pressure, while the "transmitting" part of the rod was under vacuum.
It can also be that a low-pressure was present in the whole tube. Enough gas for a spark, but not too much to be able to get a longitudinal wave front.

After all, if my theory is correct, you just want a sudden potential change of the rod., which should not take a lot of energy, so a moderate spark might be enough.
It's the sudden shift in potential that counts, not the amount of energy banged into the rod...

Hi Lamare,


I like your line of thought on this subject."Pressure and Vacuum",That somehow makes sense to me .Thx for starting this thread and welcome to the forum .


-Gary

[nat1971a]

This fits in nicely with Tesla's crude description of wardencliff being like a water pump. I looked up the definition of vacuum and found the following

The manual water pump draws water up from a well by creating a vacuum that water rushes in to fill. In a sense, it acts to evacuate the well, although the high leakage rate of dirt prevents a high quality vacuum from being maintained for any length of time.

So pressure, volume, vacuum are all part of the process as described by TeslaVacuum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[nat1971a]

so in effect the gray tube is an electrical water pump in analogy form