Workings of the gray tube

[Aaron]

Tube contents

Gray used the glass from a Coleman Lantern originally for the tube casing. In my opinion, that weighs heavily against there being either a vacuum or pressure in the tube.

That is not to say that at a later time there couldn't have been either one.

[lamare]

Eric Dollard Notes

With respect to the analogy of the electic medium with a fluid, Eric Dollards notes are an interesting read. They appear to be available at:

Eric Dollard Notes (1986--1991)

(can't read scribd here at work, but these appear to be the same notes I read)

There's also an interesting comment to this:

laserdude10 | Scribd

"Hi there, my name is Dale Robertson. I met Eric P. Dollard at Big Bob Levites house in 1980 or so. I know Eric fairly well and I have seen his work in action. I have full color photos of Eric and his Earth ion spear radio transmitter that no one has ever seen, Eric could send information through the earth to his secret place some ware in a southern California desert with ease. He had chart recorders to record the transmission receptions he would send from Bolinas California to prove his idea of the practical research at hand; it was necessary because he was working alone, I kid you not. I knew the late Filo Farnsworth II as well. Filo told me that Eric was the real deal in pulse science. I was and still am impressed. Your Comments welcome... laserdude@gmail.com"

[lamare]

Quote from Eric Dollard

In the notes linked in my previous post, there is an article from september-october 1987 from JBR.

On page 6, Dollard says:

"The popular conception of electo-magnetic energy transmission as it exists today is: energy is transmitted trough the interior of the conductor material, that is, electricity flows trough wires like water flows trough pipes. This transmission is said to involve the flow of charged sub-atomic particles called electrons.

According to this theory the materials possessing the most "free electrons" serve as the best conductors of electro-magnetic energy. Conversely, the materials possessing the least "free electrons"serve as the poorest conductors of electro-magnetic energy. These materials are called insulators. Insulators are said to block the passage of electricity.

The conclusion drawn is that electricity is the flow of electrons and that the space outside the conductor material is empty and dead. It follows that a superconductor is a material which offers no opposition to the flow of electrons and hence no opposition to the flow of electricity. Conversely, free space devoid of matter offers total opposition to the flow of electricity. Nothing could be further from the truth, yet this is the concept of electricity propounded by the scientist of today."

This is a very interesting statement by Dollard, fully supporting the theory that the vacuum is not empty and void at all, but filled with positron-electron pairs constantly popping in and out of existence. Note that this is also fully in line with Tesla's remark that elecricity has a dynamic character, and that *that* is the key to be able to hook up man's machine to the very wheelwork of nature. I mean: how can you get anything more dynamic then "positron-electron pairs popping in and out of existence"?

It looks like my textbooks from University will have to be rewritten if the Gray tube turns out to work the way I think it should....

BTW: On two of the notes by Bedini on John Bedinis' EV Gray power conversion tube - 06/05/01 ( http://keelynet.com/evgray/edgray1.jpg and http://keelynet.com/evgray/edgray4.jpg ) it is clearly noted that there should be a flow of electrons from the rod to the grids.

How can that be originating from a *positively* charged rod, unless you have a shock wave as I described?

Again, on these notes, the diode to the top of the rod is shown in the wrong way. I don't understand how this could ever work with the diodes the way they are shown. They are blocking any current from the high potential (5 kV rod) to the low potential (12 V battery), so in my opinion, they are clearly the wrong way.

[Aaron]

diode in the Gray circuit

Lamare,

I have clearly shown the purpose of the diode as John shows...it is correct. Gray's patent misrepresents the truth probably for protecting that part of it.

The diode does not block the HV, it is open and has the low voltage potential sitting on the end of it, the HV jumps into (seeing it's own ground through the battery back to ground on the cap) it to move towards the ground thru the path of least resistance. A part of that charges the battery.

The diode then shuts off quickly (with the reverse voltage) and the majority of the HV left has no where to go except to ground by way of the grids.

Please watch this video:
YouTube - Gray Tube Demonstration Proof of Concept

I have posted quite a bit in my thread: Gray Tube Replication
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...plication.html

[lamare]

@Aaron:

I have seen that video. You can clearly see sparks jumping from the rod to the grids. IIRC, you're using like 50 kV, right?

How do you apply the high volgtage?

If I understand your setup correctly, you are applying 50 kV to the rod, waiting for the spark to go open. Then, your rod will be rising in voltage, until the spark appears. That is totally different from having a rod already charged at 5 kV, and *then* connecting the diode part of the rod with the battery.

What I think should be done is charging a cap of 12 uF to 5 kV, as shown in the schematic, leaving the negative side of the rod open. Then, disconnect the high voltage (or make sure it has a high resistance). Then, you have the rod charged at a stable 5kV.

Once that is the case, you connect the negative side trough the diode to the battery. Then you will get a decent current, discharging the cap trough the rod, which makes a nice and sudden drop in potential of the rod.

That will make a pressure wave, pushing electrons to the grid, which most likely results in a snow-ball effect, so you end up with more energy on the grids as you put in.

If you "just" have a spark jumping over from the rod to the grid, IMHO, there is no way you'll ever see over-unity.

Regards.

-- Arend --

[nat1971a]

After having a quick skim read of what Tesla & Crookes said about partial vacuum....it becomes quite apparent that a vacuum will speed up the spark gap....which i think is what we are after......

If we take aarons description of what is going on then more speed provided by a partial vaccum will equal more compression which is what we after....

Tesla described experiments along the lines of what crookes was doing with radiant matter. He mentions no results with normal atmsopheric pressure....partial vacuum was required to visualise the radiant matter stream

[Aaron]

circuit comments

@Aaron:

I have seen that video. You can clearly see sparks jumping from the rod to the grids. IIRC, you're using like 50 kV, right?

How do you apply the high volgtage?

If I understand your setup correctly, you are applying 50 kV to the rod, waiting for the spark to go open. Then, your rod will be rising in voltage, until the spark appears. That is totally different from having a rod already charged at 5 kV, and *then* connecting the diode part of the rod with the battery.

What I think should be done is charging a cap of 12 uF to 5 kV, as shown in the schematic, leaving the negative side of the rod open. Then, disconnect the high voltage (or make sure it has a high resistance). Then, you have the rod charged at a stable 5kV.

Once that is the case, you connect the negative side trough the diode to the battery. Then you will get a decent current, discharging the cap trough the rod, which makes a nice and sudden drop in potential of the rod.

That will make a pressure wave, pushing electrons to the grid, which most likely results in a snow-ball effect, so you end up with more energy on the grids as you put in.

If you "just" have a spark jumping over from the rod to the grid, IMHO, there is no way you'll ever see over-unity.

Regards.

-- Arend --

You're absolutely right, with the ignition coil, the HV rod is not an extension of a diople with voltage potential just sitting there like if a cap was there. However, I have done this with caps as well. I had problems charging the cap I have but will show more vids in the near future.

This is the straight Gray circuit:
YouTube - Gray Tube | Pendulum Setup

I have only been using the ignition coil just for demo to show that a HV discharge can go through a diode "backwards" and then showing the diode shuts off forcing the rest (majority) of that HV to ground via the grids.

The coil is a Mallory Promaster, about 55kv. Same coil Gray liked to use. Gray charged his caps with this ignition coil and that is what I'm going to use. I'll do away with that microwave power supply you see in that pendulum setup.

That is all just to get the pieces in place.

This is what I believe will be jumping to the grids:
YouTube - Gray Tube Test

In that vid I didn't have the grid connected.

I'm personally not sold on the electrons moving to grid idea but am open to any idea. I believe it will pan out to show that what is happening is an impulse of magnetic current that is causing the strong punch in the coil and not electron current. When the electric field is forced 90 degrees from the wires, I believe the magnetic field moves 90 degrees and turns from a magnetic field into magnetic cold current over the wire...powering things like electron current, but cold, more efficiently, etc...

[lamare]

"I have only been using the ignition coil just for demo to show that a HV discharge can go through a diode "backwards" and then showing the diode shuts off forcing the rest (majority) of that HV to ground via the grids."


I am not surpristed that a spark capable of jumping the, what 2 cm?, from the rod to the grid is also capable of jumping across the internal connectors in a diode which may be 2 mm apart....

However: if you would come to the point that you are able to charge a cap to 5 kV and are able to discharge that trough the rod: be careful!
Be very careful!

You have to be prepared to seeing very high (negative) voltages on the grid once you produce a shockwave. How high is anybody's guess, but better be prepared for something in the order of a million volts for your own safety. In other words: you might get killed if you're not extremely carefull!!!!

Maybe it would be a good idea to start with lower voltages and step by step go to higher voltages. We definately would like you to be able to share your results with us!!!


BTW: can't access your links from work here. Damn smurfcontrol!

[lamare]

"I'm personally not sold on the electrons moving to grid idea but am open to any idea. I believe it will pan out to show that what is happening is an impulse of magnetic current that is causing the strong punch in the coil and not electron current. When the electric field is forced 90 degrees from the wires, I believe the magnetic field moves 90 degrees and turns from a magnetic field into magnetic cold current over the wire...powering things like electron current, but cold, more efficiently, etc..."

Well, it may be clear that I am. The reason for that is that it makes sense, considering the "magnifying transmitter" by Tesla and the article by Dollard I quoted from.

If you read Dollards article, he essentially says that there is an aether and not an empty vacuum and that conductors are really the opposite of what we think they are: they are not conducting electricity inside, but rather opposing electric charges from the aether, which cannot enter the inside of conductors.

If we go back to the idea that vacuum must consist of a sea of matter-antimatter particles (a.k.a. "dark matter" by astronomers), among which positron-electon pairs that sponaneously pop in and out of existence. So, there we have an idea what "aether" is, which is supported by Quantum Theory *and* the widely accepted concept of ZPE, which supposedly prevents helium from freezing, even at absolute zero.

So, with this in mind, what happens if you charge a rod to a very high potential?

Well, it will attrack negatively charged electrons from the aether, and push away positively charged positrons. This is a dynamic process, not unlike the process of OH- and H+ ions being formed and turned back into H2O.

So, what will happen is that near the surface of the rod, you will end up with a whole pile of electrons, while the positrons escape into space. Now if you suddenly lower the potential of the rod to near 0 V, this pile of electrons is no longer attrackted by the rod, and the electrons will push their neighbours away with quite a strong force, and therefore they will move away from the rod and accelerate, right in the direction of the grid.

If enough of these accelerate to a high velocity, it can be expected they will smash into electron-positron pairs fleeing around, creating additional free electrons and positrons, which strengthen the power of the wave front. The positrons will start moving towards the rod, most likely giving additional charge to put in your battery.

If you take this way of thinking and look to Tesla's wireless transmission, I can't imagine that a shock-wave originating at a sphere high up in the air could transport electricity in a focussed beam. Therefore, if Tesla was retrieving about the same amount of energy he was transmitting, I'd say he was retrieving only a fraction of the total energy in the whole wave.

In other words: his system must have produced a spherical shockwave, pulling energy from the ZPE field such a way that the ZPE added so much energy to the wave that at a large distance, you could tap an amount of energy comparable to the amount you put into your transmitter, using a recieving sphere the same size as the transmitter sphere.

Now imagine what will happen if you take a cilindrical transmitter, transmitting a wave that gains energy the same way by tapping it from the ZPE field, and capture the *whole* wave-front with a cilindrical grid surrounding your cilindrical transmitter, a.k.a. rod....

To me, this story puts all the pieces of the puzzle together and therefore makes sense....

[Inquorate]

@ lamare

I'm with you on that description. I've just been fiddling with slayer007's big joule thief circuit, and when I manually spark the negative battery connection, a neon gets a bright purple mushroom in it, as opposed to orange glow on one electrode. It's a better square wave, methinks, than what the transistor can make, and the reaction, even at the low voltage (12v) creates a wholly different effect in the neon, which fits your description nicely.

YouTube - Inquorate 26

What gas in in a neon?

[lamare]

About the position of the diode

@Aaron:

You might be right about the position of the diode after all.

The high voltage discharge of the cap will jump right trough the diode as you have shown, which will be a considerable current at that kind of voltages. Since the rod will have a parasite inductance, the voltage of the rod will tend to drop below 0V, which will not be appreciated by polarized capacitors (elco's, etc.).

Therefore, the function of the diode is most likely to prevent the voltage of the rod to drop below 0V in order to protect the capacitor from entering in a state that it desintegrates and starts emitting gasses that do not smell nicely, a process a.k.a. "exploding".

[Beshires1]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the electrostatic discharge, within the Grey tube was not a Radiant event, there was no magiical power suddenly drawn into it from the OZ to run Greys Motors. Patent 3,890,548 plainly states how the Grey Motor worked. It issued before the famous Grey tube patent 4,595,975. Persons who claimed to have studied these patents for years, Do not mention patent 3,890,548. Because it plainly tells how the motor gets its power. This was to create a mystery around a simple switching tube, and have the gullible, like myself, invest money buying their tapes that promoted "the tube" as the " Holey Grail" the "Rosetta Stone" ..Ha

[lamare]

I hate to be nosy, but....

if all the magic happened inside the motor, how do you explain his solid state electricity generator, capable of lighting normal light bulbs under water?

[Inquorate]

Cold electricity lighting bulb

check out these videos

YouTube - Cold Electricity lighting a bulb

YouTube - Lighting a bulb with cold electricity

[Beshires1]

if all the magic happened inside the motor, how do you explain his solid state electricity generator, capable of lighting normal light bulbs under water?

There you go. He probably did it like the Chap did in the video. Recon why the dude in the video doesn't show this "cold electricity" running a motor?