Generator Increases speed under load

[SkyWatcher]

Ok one more thought, let me put it to you folks this way. Is there a use in this world for a generator that at a certain rpm actually becomes easier to turn when an electrical load is applied? Also can anyone direct me to a place where i can buy a generator that becomes easier to rotate under load, since i know the answer is going to be NO i think im safe in saying that whatever the cause for these effects, are not as important, just yet. What is important is the fact that it works just as it did for Bill Muller.

[SkyWatcher]

Hello again, i should clarify my last post. input current does drop below unloaded input current when shorting coils directly, however when using a bridge rectifier on coils and shorting the bridge output the input current drops to the unloaded input current or just a tad below more akin to an ecklin generator but with much better output potential.

[petersone]

Hi Skywatcher
If the coils,with the cores are totally removed from the system,the discs and magnets are now revolving at ideal rpm, on there own,now slowly bring in the shorted coils,with the cores,are you saying the rpm increases? if so,it seems to me you have a magnetic gate,and no power need be supplied to the discs,
it is also,as you said a outstanding generator,and I agree,why it works can come later, I for one woul like to replicate.Keep up excellent!! work.
peter

[gyula]

Hello again, i should clarify my last post. input current does drop below unloaded input current when shorting coils directly, however when using a bridge rectifier on coils and shorting the bridge output the input current drops to the unloaded input current or just a tad below more akin to an ecklin generator but with much better output potential.

Hi Skywatcher,

Very interesting setup you have. Could you load it with higher power car lamps (12V / 20 or 50 or 100W) because these approach very well the short circuit condition, especially if you connect several such lamps in parallel?
This way you could make more meaningful power output comparisons by driving the lamp (or a group of lamps) from a 12V battery and from your generator. Of course here I assume a nearly 12V output from your generator and if its output voltage is less than 12V then you may wish to use power resistor in series with the lamp when your on the battery.

When you use the diode bridge output with the short on it, then the forward voltage drops of any two diodes add up and effectively reduce your output voltage and this appears for your prime mover as a reduced load on your generator (less output voltage appears as less load.

What is the output frequency of your generator and about how many volts/coil do you receive, approximately?
Also, if you do not mind, what is the DC resistance of your output coils?

Thanks, Gyula

[SkyWatcher]

hi folks, Hi Peter, yes of course a magnet spinning freely is ideal but only an air core setup can match that, most generators that can neutralize lentz to our advantage use ferromagnetic core material somewhere in the design so to answer your question when i say unloaded input current i mean when rotor is rotated past coil-cores with coils open circuited which always slows down the rotor to some degree, so when the coils are short circuited the input current to the driver motor decreases below that unloaded input current which in the case i gave you was almost 1amp below unloaded input current. Hi gyula, yes glad you pointed that out about the diode voltage drops because that explains why the loaded input current didnt drop as much because less load was actually being drawn from coils. By the way i am able to charge a 12v 7ah lead acid with the one coil and the input drive current is just below unloaded input current, so it seems that load is adequate although maybe more batteries in parallel would help give more load although not sure if voltage would stay high enough to charge them. With the coils im using now which are 18awg, .3ohms there abouts i get about 10V open circuit, 2.6A short circuit per coil with the dual rotor setup, oh and when i was charging that 12V lead acid it was putting about 400 milliamps into the battery with the one coil so the voltage somehow was high enough to charge it maybe due to lower amp load. As far as frequency, at 24V and the belt pulley ratio being 1:2 and the drive motor is a 120v 4800rpm dc motor thats around 2000 rpm with the one coil. when it was drawing the 5.2A that was with 5 coils and the odd-even dual rotor setup which isnt ideal with dual rotors because of magnet to core instability however a setup similar to Bill Mullers is better but with one coil turned around. I will post a cad pic of the ideal geometry for the odd-even setup that works fairly well and relieves alot of magnetic drag and start up is easy like Bill Mullers generator.

[gyula]

@Skywatcher

Very good!

I wonder what input current your prime mover is consuming from its 120V DC when you short or nearly short the generator outputs?

Thanks for the RPMs info, I asked because maybe you could use a normal 100VA step down mains transformer in reverse, say you could obtain or borrow a 120V/12V or 24V step down mains transformer and feed your gen output to its 12V or 24V secondary and rectify the received 100V+ AC voltage at its primary to feed your DC motor. Have you considered that, sounds a simple looping?

What happens if you connect two output coils (that are behind each other in your cad pic) in parallel? does their output power more or less sums up, or due to the voltages in different phases already they ruin each other outputs?

regards, Gyula

[SkyWatcher]

Hi gyula, the drive motor input is 24V, 2-12v lead acid. the two coil-cores shown in the cad pic i tested in series and the coils power added to each other so i would assume with proper polarity parallel works as well. thats a good idea with the transformer and looping although right now im testing what the best design to use will be. the only problem with the muller style setup with odd-even, coil-magnet relation is that although i can series wire the 2 coils or parallel as you said but since the other coils would be out of phase with each other id have to use a bridge rectifier on each coil pair as Bill Muller did.

[gyula]

Hi Skywatcher,

I misundertood your prime mover DC motor, so it is a 120V type but you run it from 24V (two lead acids), okay, now it is clear.

Well, once for the other coils the phases are different and you have to use as many bridges as there are coils, then I would suggest using a full wave rectifier circuit that has only two diodes, to minimize the double voltage drop inherent in a bridge of 4 diodes. (In a 4 diode bridge there are two diodes always ON during any of the half waves, hence the forward voltage drop is also doubled for any half cycle.)
See this link with a voltage double full wave rectifier with two diodes.
Voltage Multipliers

I do not think it is a problem in your setup to receive a doubled DC output from any of the output coils, especially when you use a 24V feed for the prime mover. (the amount of output power does not get doubled of course)

And for the diode type I recommend member gotoluc's excellent finding, the SBL3040 Schottky type, see this data sheet: http://www.eicsemi.com/datasheet/SBL...0SBL3040PT.pdf
It has only 0.4V forward voltage drop when the current is around 3A.

Hope these are of some help

rgds, Gyula

[SkyWatcher]

Hi Gyula, Hope your having a good day. I am aware of multiplier circuits and have used them but didnt think of using it to full wave rectify to reduce voltage loss, thats a great idea although it would be used only if we use the odd-even setup which i think is better but in a symmetrical generator setup maybe with a large enough flywheel weight the downsides could be minimized but then theres the difficult startup which would need a more powerful drive motor input thats why i like Mullers odd-even setup. I am going to hook up the other coils now to test fully the odd-even setup with the single rotor design, of course with this setup i need to use 10 coil-cores for both sides of the single magnet rotor. But yes the multiplier voltage doubler would actually be good here because any amperage reduction would be more than made up with the other coils dumping into a main cap bank to power a load or charge batteries, again thanks for those ideas.

peace love light

[saeed]

Ok one more thought, let me put it to you folks this way. Is there a use in this world for a generator that at a certain rpm actually becomes easier to turn when an electrical load is applied? Also can anyone direct me to a place where i can buy a generator that becomes easier to rotate under load, since i know the answer is going to be NO i think im safe in saying that whatever the cause for these effects.

My question :
is there a generator that its speed increase by increasing the load ?

thanks

[juju]

...

here you can see one:

YouTube - ThaneCHeins's Channel

[saeed]

thank you for your reply , but what is the type (or name ) of this generator?

[tagor]

thank you for your reply , but what is the type (or name ) of this generator?

the name of the Thane Heins Generator is :

perepiteia

[penno64]

Hi Skywatcher,

Why didn't you tell us about this from the muller thread ?

Penno

[SkyWatcher]

Hi penno, thanks for reply to this thread. Though I have some ideas I put forth in this thread, it is nothing new as far as i know, many other threads and a couple websites speak about what I have here.
I did notice someone linked this thread, though nothing in this thread is exactly like what romero did, though if it helps anyone in some way, I'm glad. I'm working on a small newman motor at the moment.
If you or anyone have any questions that aren't answered in this thread about my experiments, I'll offer what I can.
peace love light
tyson