What do I need to know to build a good lead acid battery?

[sinergicus]

How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery

Hi guys I found something interesting and useful about batteries..

Sepp Hasslberger: How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery


Mike

[vzon17]

Hi.
Currently I am conditioning some dead 200Ah bateries with my Bedini self oscillator. They are getting better and better, but eventualy they reach their best capacity and that is about half or less of the original battery capacity. This is so because the battery plates are in bad condition as the batteries were abused very much. A new 200Ah battery costs about 350-400$, I got these dead ones for nothing. But it takes a long time to get some usable capacity back from them and in the end you get a big (in size) battery bank that has only a fraction of the rated capacity. That is not very practical. So I guess that it could be much cheaper to build some lead acid batteries from scrach. The target size would be some 3000-4000Ah, because I calculated that this is what I would need to power my household needs in a event of blackout. Also I am working on a big wind turbine and a need for such a big storage battery becomes greater and greater. So what do I need to build a good lead acid battery? I can get lead sheets. I can get acid electrolyte mixture. I can build custom casing. But I need some advice.
1. What would the best plate thickness be? How thick are the plates in deep cell marine batteries?
2. How can I calculate the amp hour rating depending on the plate surface area?
3. What would be the best to use as a spacer between plates?

I intend to charge this battery only with Bedini type radiant chargers for the first time on.
Any input would be apreciated
Thank you,
Jetijs

Starting (sometimes called SLI, for starting, lighting, ignition) batteries are commonly used to start and run engines. Engine starters need a very large starting current for a very short time. Starting batteries have a large number of thin plates for maximum surface area. The plates are composed of a Lead "sponge", similar in appearance to a very fine foam sponge. This gives a very large surface area, but if deep cycled, this sponge will quickly be consumed and fall to the bottom of the cells. Automotive batteries will generally fail after 30-150 deep cycles if deep cycled, while they may last for thousands of cycles in normal starting use (2-5% discharge).

Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged down as much as 80% time after time, and have much thicker plates. The major difference between a true deep cycle battery and others is that the plates are SOLID Lead plates - not sponge. This gives less surface area, thus less "instant" power like starting batteries need.

Industrial deep cycle batteries
Sometimes called "fork lift", "traction" or "stationary" batteries, are used where power is needed over a longer period of time, and are designed to be "deep cycled", or discharged down as low as 20% of full charge (80% DOD, or Depth of Discharge). These are often called traction batteries because of their widespread use in forklifts, golf carts, and floor sweepers (from which we get the "GC" and "FS" series of battery sizes). Deep cycle batteries have much thicker plates than automotive batteries.

Plate Thickness
Plate thickness (of the Positive plate) matters because of a factor called "positive grid corrosion". This ranks among the top 3 reasons for battery failure. The positive (+) plate is what gets eaten away gradually over time, so eventually there is nothing left - it all falls to the bottom as sediment. Thicker plates are directly related to longer life, so other things being equal, the battery with the thickest plates will last the longest. The negative plate in batteries expands somewhat during discharge, which is why nearly all batteries have separators, such as glass mat or paper, that can be compressed.

Automotive batteries typically have plates about .040" (4/100") thick, while forklift batteries may have plates more than 1/4" (.265" for example in larger Rolls-Surrette) thick - almost 7 times as thick as auto batteries. The typical golf cart will have plates that are around .07 to .11" thick. The Concorde AGM's are .115", The Rolls-Surrette L-16 type (CH460) is .150", and the US Battery and Trojan L-16 types are .090". The Crown L-16HC size has .22" thick plates. While plate thickness is not the only factor in how many deep cycles a battery can take before it dies, it is the most important one.

Most industrial deep-cycle batteries use Lead-Antimony plates rather than the Lead-Calcium used in AGM or gelled deep-cycle batteries. The Antimony increases plate life and strength, but increases gassing and water loss. This is why most industrial batteries have to be checked often for water level if you do not have Hydrocaps. The self discharge of batteries with Lead-Antimony plates can be high - as much as 1% per day on an older battery. A new AGM typically self-discharges at about 1-2% per month, while an old one may be as much as 2% per week.

Deep Cycle Battery FAQ

[StevanC]

Maybe to salvage all negative (healthy) plates and the use one half as is, and "convert" the other to positive with a SSG?

I did make a cell of two lead plates with a SSG.

[austinraja]

How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery

That is a pretty cool experiment, I read the link you posted, that is very interesting indeed.

[SeaMonkey]

That is a pretty cool experiment, I read the link you posted, that is very interesting indeed.

Sepp Hasslberger: How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery

Unfortunately, that article is a Hoax.

Alum is a mineral double salt containing
Aluminum Sulfate - it is acidic.

The only way to recover a deteriorated Lead Acid
Battery is by means of careful desulfation and a
regimen of charge/discharge cycles.

Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salt) can be added to
the electrolyte (Sulfuric Acid) in order to prolong the
life of the battery.

Draining the electrolyte from a battery should only
be done to "flush" the battery of sediment, after
which it should be poured back into the battery.

The article must have been a Halloween Prank or
somesuch...

[Karl]

Unfortunately, that article is a Hoax.

Alum is a mineral double salt containing
Aluminum Sulfate - it is acidic.

The only way to recover a deteriorated Lead Acid
Battery is by means of careful desulfation and a
regimen of charge/discharge cycles.

Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salt) can be added to
the electrolyte (Sulfuric Acid) in order to prolong the
life of the battery.

Draining the electrolyte from a battery should only
be done to "flush" the battery of sediment, after
which it should be poured back into the battery.

The article must have been a Halloween Prank or
somesuch...

Not so sure about that mate, bedini has turned lead acid into alkaline, he claims they perform like NiCd's, there is also a thread on here with some positive results, the problem from how I see it is there are so many different grades of sodium aluminosilicate its tricky to get the correct one.
Anyone from the U.K tried this? Alum is supposed to work but I can't find an equivalent over here.
Karl

[SeaMonkey]

Not so sure about that mate, bedini has turned lead acid into alkaline, he claims they perform like NiCd's, there is also a thread on here with some positive results, the problem from how I see it is there are so many different grades of sodium aluminosilicate its tricky to get the correct one.
Anyone from the U.K tried this? Alum is supposed to work but I can't find an equivalent over here.
Karl

If lead did indeed react with an alkaline electrolyte to produce
an efficient rechargeable battery, don't you suppose that
a great many people would be using such a device? Perhaps
they would be manufactured commercially?

Sodium Aluminosilicate is an odd choice since it is insoluble
in water.

Where is the oxidation-reduction possibility?

There are many "pranks" circulating the web and unfortunately,
a lot of people get taken in.

[Joit]

Many Peoples would using such a Device..

Charging Batteries pulsed with Spikes works even better then normal Chargers,
but do Many Peoples use it?.

I even tell a lot Peoples how to make it and it works better, but do they use it therefor?

Did you try it before with a small Junk Batterie, that you can claim it is a Hoax?

There are more Things, what works better as what you can buy at the Supermarket,
but Peoples dont use it, since they cant buy it there.

There is allready a Thread for this, http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...on-useful.html,
and for me it worked, that a old damaged Batterie did take more charge then before.

I now should only try it at a more better Batterie, what is often used.
But i had a self-decharging Effect at it with my mixture also, even not much, but there was,
but i blame the Mixture for it, that it was maybe not the perfect same Stuff.

But dont worry, our Industry is smart enough, to take this Things out from market,
where you can do better things, as they wanna sell you, over and over again.

[Karl]

Hi Seamonkey,
where did you come up with the following?
"Sodium Aluminosilicate is an odd choice since it is insoluble
in water."
Is o2 not a part of Sodium Aluminosilicate due to natural absorption, hence it being water soluble, or have I got it totaly wrong again
Regards
Karl

[uusedman]

Since we are on the topic of batteries,

It would nice to see a battery made according to the principals of a Tesla switch. To produce a 12 volt battery would require 36 pallets instead of 12 pallets of electrolyte.

[SeaMonkey]

Many Peoples would using such a Device..

Charging Batteries pulsed with Spikes works even better then normal Chargers,
but do Many Peoples use it?.

I even tell a lot Peoples how to make it and it works better, but do they use it therefor?

Did you try it before with a small Junk Batterie, that you can claim it is a Hoax?

There are more Things, what works better as what you can buy at the Supermarket,
but Peoples dont use it, since they cant buy it there.

There is allready a Thread for this, http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...on-useful.html,
and for me it worked, that a old damaged Batterie did take more charge then before.

I now should only try it at a more better Batterie, what is often used.
But i had a self-decharging Effect at it with my mixture also, even not much, but there was,
but i blame the Mixture for it, that it was maybe not the perfect same Stuff.

But dont worry, our Industry is smart enough, to take this Things out from market,
where you can do better things, as they wanna sell you, over and over again.

You are absolutely correct about "spikes" and their
impact upon the lead acid battery.

Edit: Only the "smart" ones are using spikes. The "dummies"
can't figure it out - yet...

The claim that a lead acid battery can be made "alkaline"
is incorrect.

There are several salts of Sulfuric Acid (sulfates or bisulfates)
which may be added to the electrolyte of a lead acid
battery for rejuvenation purposes.

Those salts are not "alkaline" but are either neutral or acidic.
But most importantly, they contain sulfate which is
essential to the lead acid battery charge-discharge reaction.

The electrolyte of the Lead Battery must be Sulfuric.

There is no known reaction involving lead and any alkali
which will result in the operation of an "Alkaline Lead Battery."

The "author" or "authors" of the article simply did not
understand the chemistry of what they were attempting.

Therefore, they used incorrect terminology out of ignorance.

[SeaMonkey]

Hi Seamonkey,
where did you come up with the following?
"Sodium Aluminosilicate is an odd choice since it is insoluble
in water."
Is o2 not a part of Sodium Aluminosilicate due to natural absorption, hence it being water soluble, or have I got it totally wrong again
Regards
Karl

Sodium Aluminosilicate is a "food additive." It will
not dissolve in water.

It is a hoax.

[SeaMonkey]

Since we are on the topic of batteries,

It would nice to see a battery made according to the principals of a Tesla switch. To produce a 12 volt battery would require 36 pallets instead of 12 pallets of electrolyte.

So it would seem!

Gotta love that humor!

[theremart]

Making your own batteries.. Nickle batteries

Nickel Iron Batteries - A Lifetime Battery For Your Off-Grid System (or On-Grid Backup)!


Here in the US this location is making Nickle batteries. I believe this guy gets standard battery cases new then re-fills them with nickle. plates. There is special means of doing this and this guy seems to have it down.


Opps.

I grabbed the wrong link

This is the one I was thinking about
< Zapp Works - Solar Panels and Nickel-Iron Batteries >



The big thing about these batteries is their remarkable longevity and very low maintenance.

There is a real science about making batteries, so far the best option still for me has been to get good batteries and make them better with de-sulfation charging.

[uusedman]

So it would seem!

Gotta love that humor!

Why not? I am serious.