Electromagnetic Induction in Solenoid Generator Coils

[Sephiroth]

A video is being uploaded...

Place your bets now! lol

You know what Sep, I have been thinking about this. I think it has alot to do with the geometries of our setups. When the magnets pass the windings on my window motor they are triggered to fire, and they dont fire when the magnet is in the middle of the window winding (This is true if the winding is not a conventionally wound winding, and is placed around the circumference still in window form). But if you have a rather large solenoidal coil and a much smaller magnet on the rotor it would pass one side of the coil before reaching TDC,or the core, and then pass the other side of the coil before leaving on its way. Of course the wave form might look different if the coil was the size of the magnet (i.e large magnet small coil), but I think I understand your stance.

@ Cody. Air core motor is easy enough. You shouldnt have any problems.

@ all. What is the core really? Is it the opposite of what is flowing through the windings? In an air core coil (or any coil really) isnt the space outside the conductor just as important as the conductor itself? One being the opposite of the other?

Ren, I agree it is the geometry... but with a solenoid TDC will always be the Zero Volt mark. As I said earlier when a magnet passes one side of a window coil the maximum voltage is generated. But what if a north pole passes both sides of a window coil at the same time? No current will be generated because they will be generating voltage in opposite directions...

[Sephiroth]

YouTube - Sephiroth versus the DarkWizard!

Coming to a cinema near you...

[patmac]

My point of view

Ok... I´ve been analysing the problem here my conclusion:

We have obviouslly the rotor and the coil, rotor begin the turn, then magnet is aproaching to the core, and voltage is getting high meanwhile magnet is aproaching to the core, everytime nearer is chaging the magnetic field on the coil and meanwhile magnetic field is chaging, voltage is changing when the magnet is on TDC, magnet field is on his point max, then magnet has no more power to give, magnetfic field variation is dead, voltage is dead, then magnet begin go away, and virtual pole, begin, core was north pole and it converts to virtual south pole, magnetic field begin to change again, in reverse mode. Depending on core material and coil inductance, AND IF ROTOR SPEED REMAINS EQUAL. this anti-wave, can be identical to original wave

[Joit]

Well i played a bit around with Magnet and a Aircoil too.
At ideling, the Coils makes a plane Line,
when i move the Magnet over, the Curve increase to a Top Point, then it make the Sinus Wave.
Would the Current induced at the Top Point, then the Wave should start there too, am i right?
So i place my Bet on Seph

On other Thing to the Energy at the Coil, Darkwizard,
I still dont think so, it can store something, and if it does, it is very less, its maybe 5% of the Energy, what did run throught.
After that, it decharges at the Moment when you disconnect it, because the Electrons moving to fast at Copper.
A Coil can store/have Energy at the Moment, when Currrent runs trought, like a Energy unit, but it cant store or hold it.

2 Things i did learn till now.
First, Darkwizard wanna allways be right.
And second, there is a Corn of Truth what he sayed.
The Adams Motor has Potential, but its hard till now to Figure out.
I dont think, you can see that with a simple Setup or at a Circuit.
And compared to the Bedini, its hard to say, wich one is better, you can Connect couple Batteries to the Bedini, and still got a lot of Power.
Pretty bad, that you only trow sparly out this Informations.

Anyway, i did connect my 3rd Coil to Minus, and at the Plus from the Coil, i placed a selfmade, kinda Reedswitch, with Ironwire and a Copper Wire.
The outgoing from the Switch goes with a Diode to the Coil back again,
and frontside of the Diode is another Diode what goes to Plus from the simple Bedini Circuit.
So, it makes a Loop again with one Diode.
The Coil can be connected wrong too, just need to switch it, when it dont works.
2 Caps are placed at the Main "-" and plus from Cap at the Minus from the Gencoil.
Now when i move the Switch around 90° at the Rotor, and move it from 90° to ~80°, the motor speeds up.
So i can get extra Energy from this Setup.

But need to play a lot more with it, to find a better Way.
And this is a Big Matter of Timing, where the Reedswitch is, its not only like place it anywhere.
But seems the Extra is not bigger then the Spike, so its only limited to the Strenght of the Field what is build.
And for someone, who dont have much Clue, its hard to figure out.

[peper10]

Maybe!!!!!

As i read ,i think that the best way to recover the volts is to have bifiliaire
coil with a diode at the start and on the second coil have a diode at the
end.....
This way you utilize the coil to the max!!
And combining both battery,you can have longer life...Is`n it?????

Just a tought..

Alain D

[Joit]

Not at my Circuit.

[darkwizard]

I could not see what are you testing with that leds.

[darkwizard]

BY JOIT Well i played a bit around with Magnet and a Aircoil too.
At ideling, the Coils makes a plane Line,
when i move the Magnet over, the Curve increase to a Top Point, then it make the Sinus Wave.
Would the Current induced at the Top Point, then the Wave should start there too, am i right?


Please explain Joit

[darkwizard]

Ha Ha Ha Phase shifting problems

see this document http://www.controlledpwr.com/whitepapers/ipphasa3.pdf

Sephiroth i think that you have part of the true, but you refuses to find a solution to the problem.

[Bodkins]

I have always liked this picture!!!!

[Sephiroth]

Ha Ha Ha Phase shifting problems

see this document http://www.controlledpwr.com/whitepapers/ipphasa3.pdf

Sephiroth i think that you have part of the true, but you refuses to find a solution to the problem.

As far as I am aware the Phase-Shift you are refering to applies to transformers and not generator coils. Can you find a source that refers to phase shifting in a generator coil as the link you have provided is also refering to transformers...

I could not see what are you testing with that leds.

Do you understand how a strobe works?

[Sephiroth]

This image is a bit clearer...



now look at the schematic I have used for the generator coil and try to understand why those lines show up the in the places they do.

[cody]

Seph,
The phase shift between current and voltage makes perfect sense to me. It is clearly shown in the link you provided yourself to the basic ac generator. There you see voltage out of phase with induced field strength. Magnetic field strength is always associated with current, not voltage. Therefore, when the magnet is at tdc, you have the highest potential current with zero potential voltage. As we get farther away from tdc, current decreases(field strength) while voltage increases up to the point where voltage is at its max and current is at zero. Your Led video clearly displays this. Work can only be done when voltage and current are present together, so at tdc= no voltage/high current=no light. Beyond tdc there is a period where current and voltage are present together, thats where you are lighting up at. And then further you reach the max voltage point but have no current=no light again. This is behaving just like a pendulum. Max potential on one end(voltage) and max kinetic(current) on the other end. Darkwizard you say no current can flow in an open circuit, that may very well be true, but here we are talking about potential current, not flowing current, in other words it has the ability to kinetic work, we just are choosing not to use it(open circuit). Its like letting the pendulum keep swinging, while it has potential to do kenetic work, we let it keep swinging and choose not to use it. You both have brought up some very good points and they will be very valuable to our understanding of this. Thank you both. Seph here is your picture i modified to show this.

[Joit]

Please explain Joit

Better not
Zero is where my Oscilloscope/meter says Zero - line.

But think that.
When a Magnet hits a Coil, the current increase because of the Electromagnetic forces, it induces Currrent into it.
The Current increase till the Top when the Magnet is centered at the Coil.
The Current comes from the crossing Flux.
So when the Dead Point with Zero Voltage would be at Top, then it should not show current there.
When the Magnet leaves the Coil, current decrease. till the S Pole center the Coil.
The Dead Point is there, where the Magnet has no Forces,
and that is, either, when the Field switch to the N or otherwise from to S to N, its like the weak middle Part of a Magnet.
And there is no Current and no Force.
I guess, at a Rotor with 4 N magnets at 90°, the S pole would be 45° between the Magnets.
Thats the Point, where The S-Pole breaks throught, i dont think, its like the Picture from J.Bedini, even its nice made.

But that is, why when you break the Current at the highest Point, you get the most Bemf.

Ever had this, that you close your Ventil from your Watertube fast, and it does a *Blonk* throught the Whole Tube?
Its the same effect, when you breake the Current, when the Stream is at highest, you get a *Blonk* at your Coil too, what you can collect as BEMF.

[Sephiroth]

Cody, I see what you are saying but I am not convinced this occurs in the generator coil... You can not have current when the voltage is zero. In the PDF darkwizard linked to it refers to the applied voltage compared to the current, in the example provided by the PDF an AC sine wave.

With an AC sine wave (in their example) they show that it is possible for the applied voltage to be zero, yet current is at its highest. This doesn't mean that there is zero volts across the circuit, it means the coil is generating the voltage. Just like in a bedini circuit, when we shut off the transistor the applied voltage is zero, but current still flows through the coil because of the voltage created by the coil.

but at least you do agree voltage is zero at TDC

I tried to explain that in the diagrams I posted but I will break it down into more detail...

This is Flemming's Right Hand Rule



Which basicall states that when a north pole is moved over a conductor, current/voltage is generated perpendicular to the movement of the magnet as shown in this image (I have to admit I think I got the voltage wrong in the first photo)



so if we move a magnet in parallel across a wire we generate zero volts as shown in this image.



Now what if the wire is going in two directions at the same time as shown in this image? (you can assume the wires are twisted together to make it easier)



No voltage or current is formed across the two ends of the wire because the wire is conducting voltage in opposite directions. Much like shorting two identical batteries together in parallel.

Now how does this apply to a solenoid? Look at the image closely... the grey arrows refer to the direction the wire is in on either side of the solenoid...



Now look at this photo again and notice exactly where the lines are in relation to the windings...



Come on guys...