Beating lenz's law

[Ted Ewert]

Hi wojwrobel, actually as far as i know what happens from my experience is that when say a north pole approaches a generator coil it creates a north pole in gen coil and when north pole departs it creates a south pole in gen coil. Now if you switch rotor polarities to south on departure as you've pointed out, then generator coil will create a north pole wanting to attract it back. Unless i have misunderstood your intention here. Now if your talking of a configuration where the gen coil is set back a distance from rotor magnet/coil then that may be a different situation as i have pointed out in previous posts.
peace love light
Tyson

I've seen that explanation somewhere else and I have to say that it's incorrect. The incoming magnet only polarizes the core in one direction: that which is "attractive". I know this because I've tested it.
You also need alternating poles to get any power out of a generator. A monopole doesn't make a good generator at all. Electricity needs both north and south pole current in order to be "complete". I'm not exactly sure why that is, but it's another property I found out through experimentation. You learn a lot when you build stuff and test it.
@ wojwrobel... It would take quite a bit of energy to spin those magnets, then the new polarity would just re polarize the core into an attractive condition again anyway.
Keep thinking though. Better yet, build it and test it for yourself.

Ted

[SkyWatcher]

Hi ted, thanks for reply back, i was speaking of coils, not core/coils together. Though as i have found through testing , that if the coil is set back on core away from the magnet then different things happen.
peace love light
Tyson

[juju]

wojwrobel

for what is the coil inside the rotor that it can be seen in your schematic?

[wojwrobel]

hello

Juju, its energizing coil just like in car alternators

SkyWatcher, i agree whereever there is described the coil generates the same fiels as oproching magnet, but is it true? would N from N push away ?
so i think it needs investigation what is what? or its just properties of coppert that are acting like this, read this article Lenz Law 3 intresting!
Copper is a very good conductor but maybe in generators we sould use steel ??

Ted Ewert, i think that if we can get half wave out put (let say just positive) and trick lenz were home! because we rectifire it anyway, it would be just 50% efficient but without lenz!! so we need much more less than half power to spin our generator if lenz is gone!!!

wojsciech

[Ted Ewert]

Ted Ewert, i think that if we can get half wave out put (let say just positive) and trick lenz were home! because we rectifire it anyway, it would be just 50% efficient but without lenz!! so we need much more less than half power to spin our generator if lenz is gone!!!

wojsciech

I think this is what Steorn is doing in their motor. The toroidal core is attracted towards a set of magnets then "turned off" as it passes by. This will generate a little power, but I think you'll find that it isn't much. The electro/mechanical dynamics of power generation have more to them than just the lenz effect.
The reason I say this is because I spent a considerable amount of time trying to beat lenz too. I can't claim complete success, but I did learn a lot about generators.

Ted

[wojwrobel]

Hello

i think that Steorn is working just like in picture. so you creating just half wave but you can put as many coils as you can fit because there is no lenz effect... so you can rotate rotor with magnets freelly!!
wojsciech

[juju]

about the lenz

wojwrobel,

i have read in the steorn forum, just a few hours before the public demonstration, Sean saying that the rotor did slow down when he aproaches the pick up coil,

the only lenz law they are beating is in the drive coils, by cancelling BEMF...
and i do not see any gain on that, has all the current will be dissipated, if you collect the BEMF its possible to cut your motor consumption maybe in an half. Thats why most motors heat a lot, cause the bemf is forcing the rotor in the opposite direction of the current, the energy must dissipate in to something...

so BEMF is good in some sort of way...

generator coils, are not the case!

i have allreay tryed that config., my switching was not very accurate, but even with a good one i think you still will observe half BEMF, as only having half of the output!

hugs

[wojwrobel]

hello

ok when you look at magnetic lines where is the max concentration of the field? INSIDE THE MAGNETIC BAR

ok so when our coil generates "Anti field" where is the maximum concentration of this field ? INSIDE THE COIL

what about outside of coil? WELL ITS THERE BUT NOT SO CONCENTRATED
SO WHY NOT TO MAKE A CORE THAT WILL CREATE A MAGNETIC FIELD ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE COIL NOT INSIDE!!!


will this field affect the coil ?? SURE!! BUT "ANTI FIELD" WILL NOT AFFECT OUR MAGNET THAT MUCH DOING SAME WORK!!!

what you think?
wojsciech

i love dialogs

[juju]

hmm

im not very inside of the theory, what i know, is what i experiment and see by myself in a practical way.

how do you make that kind of coil? by only activate it, when the magnet is not in front of it?

or are you saying that if you concentrate the field outside the coil, not inside, and by only activate the coil, when the magnet is in front of it, doing that you can extract the energy from the magnet, without affect it or slow it down?

not shore if i understand it very well...

i will look for some files i have to blind the core, and its really simple... maybe you would like to experiment it, but you need high torque in your motor...


hugs

[wojwrobel]

hello

i have been thinking about this lenz problem and came to idea!!!

ok when you have let say N pole at one magnet and N at second magnet and when you try to put them tougether they dont want to join right they push away!! but when you put any feromagnetic material between they will!!!!

so when we have our pickup coil with core all we need to do is to add another pice of ferromagnetic at the front to act as pole neutralizer!!

i have two magnets 29mmx10mm and they need 6mm of steel to get N pol to N pole

of course the magnetic field will be weakened a bit but no lenz effect!!!

or we can put a pice of steel to our magnet where it havce contact with coil instead!!!

i have to give it a try but it make sens!!!

cheers from poland
wojsciech

[Sephiroth]

hello

i have been thinking about this lenz problem and came to idea!!!

ok when you have let say N pole at one magnet and N at second magnet and when you try to put them tougether they dont want to join right they push away!! but when you put any feromagnetic material between they will!!!!

so when we have our pickup coil with core all we need to do is to add another pice of ferromagnetic at the front to act as pole neutralizer!!

i have two magnets 29mmx10mm and they need 6mm of steel to get N pol to N pole

of course the magnetic field will be weakened a bit but no lenz effect!!!

or we can put a pice of steel to our magnet where it havce contact with coil instead!!!

i have to give it a try but it make sens!!!

cheers from poland
wojsciech

Afraid that isn't how lenz law works

When a magnet (lets say it is north pole facing out) approaches a coil, regardless of whether it has an iron core or air core, the current that is generated will form a magnetic field around the coil that is in opposition to the incoming magnet. So when our north pole magnet approaches the coil, the coil then generates a magnetic field with a north pole facing the magnet so it repels it. But then when the magnet starts moving away from the coil, the current changes direction and forms a magnetic field that attracts the magnet that is trying to move away.

So when the magnet approaches the coil, the coil repels it. But when the magnetic is moving away from the coil, the coil attracts it.

It's a pain in the arse....

[wojwrobel]

hello

i have to agree is not gonna work i have tested it!!!! still has lenz efect

so i think we have to copy steorn idea and use toroidal coil just like in picture

wojsciech



well in reality toroidal coil have to be turned by 90 degrese !!!

Im just curious if we would use torodial coil insted of regular coil, would it have lenz effect?

just like this one


in reality coil have to be facing magnet !!

[juju]

toroidal

in a toroid coil the magnetic field is closed inside the core!

the orbo works with toroid drive coils and thats why they cancel the bemf, because the magnets dont affect the coil, dont induce any current on it!

thats why they use solenoid generator coils!

it will not work but maybe someone can explain you that better!


maybe you would like to try this method... i find this a long time ago and saved the files, but i lost the adress, maybe searching on google, is easy to find. i dont know the name of the autor, who knows if it is a energetic guy to!!

use Hollow Iron Alloy Cores.



To repeat what should be : "According to Lenz's Law, you should perceive a slowing of the rotor because the current induced into the coils opposes the movement of the rotor."

What actually happens ?????. If your alternator is operating within the "realm of disbelief", as it likely will (LOL), you will notice something very strange!!.

You may notice the following:
----**********-----------------------------------------***********------------------------------------------**********-------------------------
When R1/Globe1 was turned on, the motor slowed a little bit, When R2/Globe2 was turned on the motor may have slowed a little bit again, but not as much when R1/G1 was turned on. But when you turned R3/Globe3 on, there appeared to be no change in motor speed at all. You continue and find that when you turned R4/G4 the motor seemed to speed up again. Same with 5 and 6. It's almost at the speed when you started. Then to your greatest surprise, you turn the short circuit on, and the motor goes to full speed as if there were no load at all.
----**********-----------------------------------------***********------------------------------------------**********-------------------------

[juju]

i forgot...

Each globe has a measurable DC resistance of approximately 12 ohms. So thats 12 V / 12 Ohms = 1 amp per globe. Max globe power at 12 V = 12 V x 1 amp = 12 watts. Typical Automobile Globes from anywhere.You can use either sort of Load Panel as the result will be the same in both cases.


You can use a resistor panel, instead of the globes...

and you need high rpms as i sayd before, that method dont worked with my pulse motor. i think because my config have low torque!

[Sephiroth]

It's from totallyamped.net

http://www.totallyamped.net/adams/

page 10

Good stuff in there....