The Mechanical Engine

[CloudSeeder]

Like everybody else here we all need to build our ideas, even if they don't work and then show them not working. Then suggestions could be made I guess. You might could gradually knead in a few more explicit terms, give us some awe to chew on.

[Ted Ewert]

Still waiting for payday to get a big piece of plywood and a couple of bolts etc.. Bit crestfallen about ppls findings from attempts so far but also encouraged by simple experiments with a Crossbeam and two pendulums, one swinging..

People have only been trying to figure out this problem for the last 200 years. We have to expect a few duds.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Possible solution to gate problem

This is a possible solution to the gate problem. The hinge has a limite of 5 degrees backwards and is placed between the cam wheel and the weight wheel. Just past the 12 position the weight wheel is still 5 degrees back but the cam wheel is already on the external cam and moving downwards, when the weight wheel is here the hinge will close to the straight position giving a double weight downward force from the click back to straight. This is momentarily but the swing to dead stop action in the gravity field gives quite a punch.

Michael N

[Ted Ewert]

This is a possible solution to the gate problem. The hinge has a limite of 5 degrees backwards and is placed between the cam wheel and the weight wheel. Just past the 12 position the weight wheel is still 5 degrees back but the cam wheel is already on the external cam and moving downwards, when the weight wheel is here the hinge will close to the straight position giving a double weight downward force from the click back to straight. This is momentarily but the swing to dead stop action in the gravity field gives quite a punch.

Michael N

I take it back, this might work. You're right, the axis does shift out around 3 o'clock.
Nevertheless, how does your weight get shifted back out towards the perimeter once it goes past 9 o'clock? I see it out at 12 o'clock, but no mechanism to get it there.

Ted

[CloudSeeder]

I like the solution Michael Nunnerley proposes in Post #203 => http://www.energeticforum.com/50482-post203.html

I don't quite see where the hinge is located so I can't very well comment on it being 5 degrees... but if it's BACKWARDS it has a ring of truth, because we all have pretty much acknowledged the need to think in multiple directions -standing as we are in the deep interior of a sand-locked pyramid- is the only way to solve this.

I'm glad to escape the box.

@Ted: I think them being on the same bar sliding to the right is pulling the 9 o'clock weight over with it. Or maybe I misunderstood your question. I was of the opinion that the small wheel riding onto the top of the cam was pulling the weight back up for the outward ride toward 3 o'clock... which I suppose would represent a negative factor but considering the hard slam happening at 3 o'clock doesn't cripple the action. I take it that's where the hinge action occurs also. Hammer time.

Great deductions Michael Nunnerley. Lock and Load I allays say.

Hmm. Correction => I could see where more than 5 degrees might bring the weight down to 4 or 4:30 but it's needed at 3 o'clock to help lift the opposite weight looks like. That will have to be decided upon building and trying a few different hinges.

Once an outer rim is added, the weight of the balls could be increased, so then the size generator being run by it could likewise be increased. The rim would be supported by the main hub not the balls or even touching the balls. Rim Weight increase = corresponding Ball Weight Iincease = Circular Momentum Horsepower increase <> I'm sure everybody else here can write it in a better format.

I was born for shovels.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

I take it back, this might work. You're right, the axis does shift out around 3 o'clock.
Nevertheless, how does your weight get shifted back out towards the perimeter once it goes past 9 o'clock? I see it out at 12 o'clock, but no mechanism to get it there.

Ted

Hi Ted, if you look at my drawing, it is now a bit old and crapid, at the bottom is a fixed external cam which the wheel weight falls into and as it moves in the cam it is pushed up so that the sliders are moving the weight at the opposite end toward the outside of the circular disc and also the cam wheel at the other end starts to engage with the internal fix cam. I hope I have explained myself!!!!!!!!!!! The part that is the sticking point is that point where 12/6 is in equallibrium but by putting a 5 degree back hing between the cam wheel and the weight wheel we will create a time lag for the top internal cam wheel to engage in its cam fo the downward journy

Michael N

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Hi Cloudseeder, yes there are only two slider bars and each bar has the two wheel weights and cam wheels at either end so as the bar moves one wheel weight goes in toward the axis and the other out. Simple mechanics but the simple things are the hardest to think about

Michael N

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Top view of which I am still working on.

Michael N

[Michael John Nunnerley]

A bit more to the secound diagram, this explains a little more

Michael N

[Michael John Nunnerley]

shape of cams

The other thing is the shaping of the cams, there will have to be a bit of experimenting here

Michael N

[Peter Lindemann]

Serious doubts

Michael, et al,

I have serious doubts about your current design. The reason is I have built units based on these ideas before and they didn't work. Further analysis showed that to lift the weight up the cam requires the wheel to invest WORK (MOMENTUM) previously stored in the wheel. When this work is removed from the wheel, the wheel slows down.

Your design asks the wheel to LIFT the weights against gravity. There is an intuitive tendency to believe that the cams will "relieve" some of this load, but when you build it, you find that it does not. Think of it as pushing a weighted wagon up an inclined plane. Even if you have well oiled bearings and wheels, it is still harder to push up hill than on a flat surface. That is the extra work I am talking about.

This situation is EXACTLY what forced me to consider the design I have proposed. In my Mechanical Engine, the weights only FALL in the gravity field, while stored momentum in the wheel is never asked to LIFT a weight by direct action. This is also why the "spring return" is required, so the gravity powered swing of the weight outward can be "reversed" without removing any momentum from the wheel. This is also why I believe that the discovery of the "piano hammer movement" was the original key to Bessler's success.

Keep up the great work, you guys.

Peter

[CloudSeeder]

How are you set for money for prototype parts? I can PayPal ya a few after my disability check comes in in a few days if you need assistance.

One thing I see is that the hinges are going to receive repeated sharp -and destructive over a few dozen/hundred revolutions- impacts. 5 degrees is probably going to be close to perfect, but the hinge impacts needs some sort of buffering, air bag, spring, something to keep the hinges from disintegrating.

I know what you need but I don't know what it's called. It's a type of spring. I'm sure if you Google springs you'll see it. It has two ends sticking out that would each go to the opposite hinge. I think that would work.

Looks like to me you're In Like Flint.

[Inquorate]

Cams

Hi guys, whenever I made cam / ramp devices in my virtual wheels, they went backwards. I'm inclined to agree with dr lindemann, but quite happy to be wrong.

[CloudSeeder]

Nunnerley musta been April foolsying us. I fell like a ton a bricks. Sorry. I should have stayed away from shovels.

[CloudSeeder]

Yeah, Bessler really was the man. Maybe one day someone will find a hollow cane in his belongings.