The Mechanical Engine

[Inquorate]

Peter

My purpose behind including those two other systems was to promote discussion of what does not work.

I have been researching bessler's designs - the ones that didn't work - and what became obvious is what you have said - gravity alone will not be sufficient to turn the wheel.

But, gravity can cause a weight to swing, and the extra force obtained will theoretically tip the balance. Pun intended.

Love and light,
Ben

[Inquorate]

Measurements

Alas, unlike tesla, I cannot visualize the operation of my thought machine well enough to have it working first time I build it... I reckon the length of the arm holding the weight will have to be made exact so each action of the swing occurs at the right time, and will be dependent on the speed of the wheel as it turns.

So, I have gotten a flat coaster / table placemat piece of wood 25cm in diameter, I'll probably riddle it with holes for putting doweling pegs into it, trying to find the best placement on the wheel.

I'm also looking for one of those newton's swinging ball desk toys, and use the weights from that.

I hope people will share their failures as well as successes, so we get their quicker together

[Inquorate]

Magnets

@ mrbreau - glad someone else is working on this too.

/ I had a thought; if my idea of a freely swinging 'latch' doesn't work, the levered latches running off an egg shaped wheel for their timing is the other option; but what about two stationary magnets that trigger the latching mechanism, and another that pulls the latch open again?

Would the magnetic drag be less than frictional losses?

[john_g]

MrBreau

Can you confirm the book with all the different drawing is “Perpetual Motion: An Ancient Mystery Solved?”. And is it worth it worth buying?

Regards

John

[Peter Lindemann]

....after posting last night that I haven't done "due diligence" here again. If Bessler was as thorough as I claim he was when he put together the book then he would also have included a list of materials. He probably also describes the shapes of the various parts too. So, maybe what I've put together isn't what Bessler had intended. I may have to eat some crow after all. A little lesson in humility never hurt anyone..... except their ego.

So, for me it is back to the studyhall to do my homework.

Warren
..

Warren,

Learning to at your own is the mark of a true

Shall we call you MAHATMA?

Keep up the great work.

Peter

[Electrotek]

Drawings nine through twelve show that his wheel will have all the forces acting in unison. (There is one other perk in these drawings but that is for much later.) These drawings also show that his wheel is a wheel within a wheel, a hub and a wheel. So there are two parts to his wheel. ( At least)
..

I had time to look at this briefly last year and the impression I got was that the inner wheel was a pendulum. It was a heavy sandstone wheel, like they used to use for sharpening. But the axle went through the wheel above the center.

[wpage]

True words

@ Inquorate

He doesn't give dimensions he gives ratios. Whoa!

Herr Bessler was a very smart man, very smart. He was educated during a time when education wasn't free. In addition to his native tongue, German, he was also fluent in Latin which he used sporadically throught his book. He was taught Geomety, Archimedian Geometry. And if he was going to write a book of directions he would not slap a bunch of drawings together and HOPE someone would figure the directions out.
The first eight drawings basically specify what the wheel is NOT except that it is self contained. His wheel would not have belts, pulleys, or chains, or loose balls. His wheel would not be haphazardly trying to manage some disjointed forces. All the forces would be united.

Drawings nine through twelve show that his wheel will have all the forces acting in unison. These drawings also show that his wheel is a wheel within a wheel, a hub and a wheel. So there are two parts to his wheel. ( At least)

Drawing thirteen starts with the hub. Isn't that the logical place to star? And he shows what the hub must do, position the weight(s).

And for now, I'm going to skip to drawings seventeen and eighteen. He I see what the hub of the wheel must do with the weight(s). The hub must operate in such a way that one radius will be doing most of the work, if not all of the work.

Remember, if you are reading the book, after the eighth drawing when you see belts, pulleys, and such to disregard them and focus on what is left in the drawing.

Here is a hint; in drawing thrty-seven he specificlly draws your attention to the smaller drawing in the upper left corner. The drawing is merely a representation of the golden ratio, IMO. So, we have to be on watch for just about everything and anything.

I hope this helps someone else as much as it has helped me. I was told once that the best way to keep it was to give it away.

Warren
..

I agree...
W

[woopy]

pendulum power

Hello all

this is my first post in this very interesting forum and thank's to all for the good job and sharing it.

Here my contribution to Bessler à la Lindemann.
I have seen the work of Veljko Milkovic and i could not prevent me to replicate his pendulum chariot moving forward on his table.

It works very well

I made it with a small chariot , the axels are Hard drive disk sensor with very good bearings and the weights are metall rings.

It works with one pendulum and better with two. You have to release the two pendulum exactly at the same time as they have to cross simutaneously at the down travel.

it is very easy to do and it tookme half an hour to build, but then hours and hours to contemplate the movement of "gravity going forward"

on the picture you see asmall metall ball to show that the table is flat and green and red marks to measure the translation

next step trying to entertain the pendulum movement and get a continuous translation

So i think that the idea of Peter Lindemann can be a good way for a Bessler project

Good luck

Laurent

[Inquorate]

Welcome


WOOPY

Lovely to have you on board!

I don't suppose you could upload video to youtube showing your chariot? I can't work out the movement from the pics..

for your encouragement.

Ps, does anyone have video of veljko's oscillator, or is that a silly question?

[Inquorate]

Dimensions

@ Mrbreau - it is interesting how we are both approaching this from different angles. I am watching your posts very carefully.

I was thinking just now that perhaps between 12 o'clock and 3, the pendulum should swing out (or a portion thereof) and that between 3 and 6 (or a portion thereof) it should swing back. That way, it's motor out and in will support the rotation of the wheel.

In respect to you mrbeau, I will try for 1.30 to 3 out, 3 to 4.30 in, thus maintaining the 1/8 ratio?

[Inquorate]

Can't edit at the moment

@ woopy, I figured it out, pendulum swings forward horizontally

@ mrbeau, I meant movement not motor. Damnable predictive messaging and spelling mistakes!

[Peter Lindemann]

@ Inquorate

You said; I was thinking just now that perhaps between 12 o'clock and 3, the pendulum should swing out (or a portion thereof) and that between 3 and 6 (or a portion thereof) it should swing back. That way, it's motor out and in will support the rotation of the wheel.

The movement you describe between 12 and 6 actually takes place between 12 and 3! So it happens four times every revolution. You see, at 12 we have start, at 1:30 we have the movement completed, and at 3 we have the return completed. You'll understand more when I can get my demo completed for show.

Sorry if I sound short but my mind is whirring with this thing. I KNOW IT WORKS!

Warren
..

Warren,

As the Ferengi say "I am all ears".

Your ideas are quite interesting and I am glad you are sharing them with this thread. So far, what I see is that we agree on a number of fundamental features for a working system.

1) it requires a stationary central reference at the hub
2) the weights swing and reset in about 90 degrees
3) all weights reset close to the axis after some "transient excursion"

I look forward to seeing how your experiments develop.

"May the force be with you" ... centrifugal force, that is.

Peter

[Peter Lindemann]

Very Interesting

Here you go gang, the first two pictures of the completed prototype for visual understanding.

Both pictures are of the wheel in, what I call, neutral position. From either of these two positions the wheel will not move because in the one the center of gravity is straight down and in the other all weights cancel each outher out, which puts the center of gravity at the center of the hub.

Look closely at the bottom of the wheel in both pictures. There is a little handle there. In one picure the handle is straight down and in the other it is at around five o'clock. Those are the only two positions this wheel will have for an entire revolution. You'll see more in the upcoming video.

Things change drastically when the wheel is timed so the center of gravity is off to one side, drastically.

Anyway, for your viewing enjoyment here they are.

Warren
..

Warren,

Thank you for sharing your work here. This design is very interesting. From the position of the weights, it does look like it may work. My only concern is the leverage on the arms at the pivot points and how that might produce forces against rotation. I look forward to seeing your fully operational unit.

Best wishes,

Peter

[Aromaz]

I looked, I read, I searched, I scratch my head
but I fail to see where the possibility will come from to
overcome the balance, the Chi, the Yin-Yang.

The complete law of physics and nature is against you.
I am not a pesimist, but I am realistic and can visualize.

So I am ready to flip over if this does work.

[Inquorate]

pendulum

YouTube - pendulum

I truly believe there is merit to this idea: turn the vehicles in this video verticle, power pendulum movement in gravity, and she may well work.