The Mechanical Engine

[CloudSeeder]

Honesty, versus insulting. Interesting. Complete with a tagged-on insult. If you perchance want to see me at my insulting-the-nation's-doctors best => SignOnSanDiego Forums - View Single Post - 2012 3-Year Word => http://tinyurl.com/SpecialYears2012

When I decide to be insulting I don't hold much back. Inquorate was not getting insults.

[Mark]

What taged on insult? Good grief Charlie Brown, get over yourself. There I'm sure you'll consider that an insult.

[Inquorate]

Nevermind

@ mark - thanks for your support

@ cloudseeder - if people find my video sloppy and concentrate on that alone, thereby missing the crucial facts, that is to their detriment and not mine.

Digression over.

[CloudSeeder]

If I pointed out you were a jerk that would be an insult. Or, Big Baby. hahahaha

[CloudSeeder]

@Inquorate

Show me and Mark were I said I didn't like your video. You can't <> it isn't there.

You all may have assumed it was there somewhere deep in your technological brain.

I am not responsible for people's wrong assumptions.

[Ted Ewert]

Just a point on these two forces in relation to a pendulum. If a disc with pendulums on its cicumference turns and the pendulum at 3 swings out it will have centrifugal force to the point that it stops at the far right at which point it will turn to centripetal force the latter which is not wanted as it will work against the overall gain. The gain when the pendulum is fully streached to the right is one of gravity with the weight farther away from the axis of the disc and the axis of the weight.

Just a point guys, hope you do not mined

Michael N

All thoughts are good, thanks for bringing up an interesting point.
If you think in terms of a ballerina spinning, when her arms extend, her spin slows down. When they are pulled back in close she speeds up. When the pendulum extends and retracts from the main axis this also affects the speed of the wheel.
However, this action is at the heart of the theory I keep trying to sell here (I know you're all tired of hearing it).
Going back to the ballerina... My daughter loves to dance. consequently I regularly find myself at interminable dance recitals. Watching the dancers spin, I noticed how little effort it takes on their part to keep spinning for a fairly long time, only extending and retracting their arms. This is the same action the pendulum goes through. I think there is a net gain here.



Ted

[Ted Ewert]

@Inquorate

Show me and Mark were I said I didn't like your video. You can't <> it isn't there.

Enough of this crap. His video was brilliant. STFU.

[CloudSeeder]

A low tolerance of pain is evident... and the everpresent need to tag on an insult. That's very poor language to address a fellow poster.

Inquorate did excellent work, however if he was to take his video before the Public and get shot down that would do all of our efforts MUCH DAMAGE. So in my opinion he needs to fasten them down in the future.

So it's better to be told here than catch a swarm of flies later.

[Mark]

Cloudseeder you have no social skills what so ever. I bet you have a lot of friends. In case you can't read between the lines your not making any here either. Learn to play nice or find someplace else to try and impress everyone, ok, enough said.

[Inquorate]

Back to the point at hand

Found something very interesting and perplexing. I'm at a loss. Um. If it is centrifugal force pulling the lever down, what exactly is making it go up in this video?

I'm beginning to question the force in question.. If it was centrifugal, surely it would go down regardless of where the spring / ball is?

Luckily, I can still make it work, I think. To turn the wheel. But. Why does it go up? Why why why why?

YouTube - what the ?

@ Ted - interesting point about the dancers arms extending and retracting causing continued spin. I'll try that out next time I'm on a swivel chair.

[Mark]

I think that when the pendulum gets to the top of its swing it becomes weightless, so to speak.

[Peter Lindemann]

Nothing Personal

Gentlemen,

Please, no more personal attacks. Mark, you may not have liked Cloudseeder's comment, but he OWNED it as his opinion and simply reiterated "what it looked like to him". You are the one who is leading out with the insults, here. Please stop.

This thread is making a lot of progress with the science, theory, and model construction. Let's stay focused on that.

This acerbic interchange is over.

Peter

[Peter Lindemann]

I see the force in question

Found something very interesting and perplexing. I'm at a loss. Um. If it is centrifugal force pulling the lever down, what exactly is making it go up in this video?

I'm beginning to question the force in question.. If it was centrifugal, surely it would go down regardless of where the spring / ball is?

Luckily, I can still make it work, I think. To turn the wheel. But. Why does it go up? Why why why why?

YouTube - what the ?

@ Ted - interesting point about the dancers arms extending and retracting causing continued spin. I'll try that out next time I'm on a swivel chair.

Inquorate,

I see why your experiment does what it does. It has to do with the placement of your rubber bumper and whether it is above or below the AXIS of the arm. The rebound force is being translated back as a rotational force above or below the axis, producing what you see. This also has to do with the general lack of a flywheel mass in your system, and the low mass of your pendulums.

The other issue here is that your experiments are still balanced when the pendulum is straight down, like Veljko's, instead of balanced when the pendulums are retracted toward the center. This change of the balance reference makes a huge difference.

Also, you really may want to take another look at my article. Your 6 second clip titled "it's gotta be like this" is essentially what my design proposes. And, by the way, I agree with you.

Peter

[Michael John Nunnerley]

@ Inquorate

What makes it go down and what makes it go up, well depending where you started the swing. If you started on the right it would have the tendancy to go down, but if you started on the left it will have a tendancy to go up, why, well there are in fact two factors, I will not say forces as it will confuse things, Two points of axis, the beam and the pendulum, first the beam, with no movement it is in balance, secound the pendulum, when there is no movement all is in balance, when you take the pendulum out to the right to start a swing you are shifting the balance in favour of a downward movement, the right is heavier than the left. When you take the pendulum in to the left and let it swing out it has started in favour of an inbalance in the beam with less weight on the right, you are also creating centrifugal force when you let it go and what have I explained before is that centrifugal force is always in a straight line. When the pendulum starts coming back in it has changed to centripetal force which is not what we want, unless we can harvest this force

Michael N

[Peter Lindemann]

Watch the film again

@ Inquorate

What makes it go down and what makes it go up, well depending where you started the swing. If you started on the right it would have the tendancy to go down, but if you started on the left it will have a tendancy to go up, why, well there are in fact two factors, I will not say forces as it will confuse things, Two points of axis, the beam and the pendulum, first the beam, with no movement it is in balance, secound the pendulum, when there is no movement all is in balance, when you take the pendulum out to the right to start a swing you are shifting the balance in favour of a downward movement, the right is heavier than the left. When you take the pendulum in to the left and let it swing out it has started in favour of an inbalance in the beam with less weight on the right, you are also creating centrifugal force when you let it go and what have I explained before is that centrifugal force is always in a straight line. When the pendulum starts coming back in it has changed to centripetal force which is not what we want, unless we can harvest this force

Michael N

Michael,

Watch Inquorate's film again. The upward force does not appear because the pendulum is at the inner position. The upward force appears exactly at the moment it hits the bumper. This is a direct translation of the momentum of the pendulum back to the lever arm vectored above the axis by the placement of the rubber bumper.

This discovery is actually VERY IMPORTANT, since it may allow the harnessing of the "spring back" force to reinforce rotation when the bumper is placed correctly.

So now we can harness Gravity, Centrifugal Force (as the downward thrust) and the stored momentum of the pendulum itself, as the properly directed spring back force.

Awesome!

Inquorate, we all owe you a

Peter